Is Microneedling Best With Topical minoxidil? Or Can I Still Get Good Results If I Needle + Oral Min?

[patrickstewart]

I've seen incredible results when Microneedling / Rolling in combination with Minoxidil, but my thinking is that these results are due to the needling / rolling allowing for a better absorption of the topical minoxidil. Is this true? Or will I in theory be able to achieve the same results with microneedling / rolling + oral minoxidil? I'd prefer to take oral minoxidil. as my current life situation doesn't allow me to apply it topically twice a day. Can anyone advise?

 

[Lurker85]

I'm in the same situation as you. I can't apply topically twice a day since I usually have my concealer (dermmatch) in for 3 days.

I microneedle with a dr pen, 1.5mm to 2.25mm, depending on area of scalp, and I take oral minoxidil. It is somewhat working, but I think it would probably be more effective with topical minoxidil.

I think without microneedling, oral minoxidil is more effective than topical.

With microneedling, topical is much more effective than oral.

 

[pegasus2]

I've seen incredible results when Microneedling / Rolling in combination with Minoxidil, but my thinking is that these results are due to the needling / rolling allowing for a better absorption of the topical minoxidil. Is this true? Or will I in theory be able to achieve the same results with microneedling / rolling + oral minoxidil? I'd prefer to take oral minoxidil. as my current life situation doesn't allow me to apply it topically twice a day. Can anyone advise?

That's not the reason microneedling works. It works without minoxidil, it just works better in combination with it. Check out this video for an explanation by the man behind Follica's microneedling treatment:

Oral minoxidil is more effective than topical. I don't think there is any need to use topical too except that oral has a lower half-life. If you want to make sure your follicles have minoxidil 24/7 then you need to use the topical twice a day. This might actually be important for ensuring your follicles have it at the right stage of the wounding process to trigger hair growth.

 

[patrickstewart]

I'm in the same situation as you. I can't apply topically twice a day since I usually have my concealer (dermmatch) in for 3 days.

I microneedle with a dr pen, 1.5mm to 2.25mm, depending on area of scalp, and I take oral minoxidil. It is somewhat working, but I think it would probably be more effective with topical minoxidil.

I think without microneedling, oral minoxidil is more effective than topical.

With microneedling, topical is much more effective than oral.

Is that a fact? Or just your observations based off the results you've seen? I wish there were more studies on this sort of thing. Maybe once / if you get enough gains on Oral minoxidil and Dermarolling where you won't need as much concealer you could switch to topical Min?

 

[kiwi666]

That's not the reason microneedling works. It works without minoxidil, it just works better in combination with it. Check out this video for an explanation by the man behind Follica's microneedling treatment:

Oral minoxidil is more effective than topical. I don't think there is any need to use topical too except that oral has a lower half-life. If you want to make sure your follicles have minoxidil 24/7 then you need to use the topical twice a day. This might actually be important for ensuring your follicles have it at the right stage of the wounding process to trigger hair growth.

OMG - that poor rats ***!!!!

 

[Lurker85]

Is that a fact? Or just your observations based off the results you've seen? I wish there were more studies on this sort of thing. Maybe once / if you get enough gains on Oral minoxidil and Dermarolling where you won't need as much concealer you could switch to topical Min?

Just an observation. I've been on oral minoxidil for a while, probably maxed out results. Started with about 6 months of 5mg, been on 10mg for about a year. My hairline is great, but the thinning behind it requires constant concealer.

 

[patrickstewart]

Just an observation. I've been on oral minoxidil for a while, probably maxed out results. Started with about 6 months of 5mg, been on 10mg for about a year. My hairline is great, but the thinning behind it requires constant concealer.

Have you considered a FUE? You could get a couple thousand grafts transplanted in for under 3K in Turkey.

 

[Lurker85]

Have you considered a FUE? You could get a couple thousand grafts transplanted in for under 3K in Turkey.

Yea, I've heavily considered it. The only thing holding me back is that right now I'm at 100% hair with just a little dermmatch. I'd have to deal with having basically no hair for 6 months or so while recovering. The recovery part is the only turnoff. If I can manage to get a few months off from having to go out I'll do it and just isolate until it looks good or I can conceal again.

 

[Slid]

OMG - that poor rats ***!!!!

Trust me if you dont know what they are doing to rats,mouses,rabbits,cats,monkeys,dogs...you are lucky.

 

[-Synergy-]

Oral minoxidil results greater than minoxidil + microneedling + retinol/tretinoin or is it the other way around?

Is there a thread on this anywhere? What does everybody think?

 

[Ascension]

That's not the reason microneedling works. It works without minoxidil, it just works better in combination with it. Check out this video for an explanation by the man behind Follica's microneedling treatment:

Oral minoxidil is more effective than topical. I don't think there is any need to use topical too except that oral has a lower half-life. If you want to make sure your follicles have minoxidil 24/7 then you need to use the topical twice a day. This might actually be important for ensuring your follicles have it at the right stage of the wounding process to trigger hair growth.

most people nowadays say once a day minoxidil is good enough but i would think twice is better, if you apply minoxidil once a day with a max interval time of 28 hours lets say wouldnt you still be good since the half life of it is 22hours?

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

most people nowadays say once a day minoxidil is good enough but i would think twice is better, if you apply minoxidil once a day with a max interval time of 28 hours lets say wouldnt you still be good since the half life of it is 22hours?

I think that in many situations with medications, it's the spike in levels that is most therapeutic, not the half-life. For HRT, half-lives appear completely irrelevant in terms of "results". Many do pursue consistent E2 levels for psychological effects more so than improving results.

 

[Ascension]

I think that in many situations with medications, it's the spike in levels that is most therapeutic, not the half-life. For HRT, half-lives appear completely irrelevant in terms of "results". Many do pursue consistent E2 levels for psychological effects more so than improving results.

Hmm but then why would some personal dermatologists ive visited told me once a day is good enough, i understand that twice is definitely better but i wouldnt think once yields 0 positive effects

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

Hmm but then why would some personal dermatologists ive visited told me once a day is good enough, i understand that twice is definitely better but i wouldnt think once yields 0 positive effects

Well. A couple of things. For one, for many people regular minoxidil either doesn't work or it works only for maintenance. In that scenario, once a day is enough. The dosage curve with regular minoxidil seems to peter out pretty quickly to the point that soaking one's head twice daily might not do anything more than using it on only balding areas once daily. It certainly shouldn't hurt to use it twice a day. I drink topical and then use foam at night which is easy to apply and blends in without residue. The best bet for someone only using topical would be to look into supplementing sulfurotransferase, which is an enzyme that minoxidil needs in order to be as efficacious as possible. Oral min creates its own sulfurotransferase when it makes its pass through the liver. So minoxidil is a sort of pro-drug in terms of needling to be processed to its metabolites for full effect or perhaps any effect at all.

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

i've been needling for two years and have been taking oral min for the past 6 months

it hasnt worked for me, my hair's thinner than ever

cant understand why because oral min is meant to be super effective and I've grown a boatload of body hair while on it but nothing on the head

That is too bad. I mean, I am on so many treatments that perhaps oral minoxidil is superfluous but I do believe that it sped growth of all follicles not just those that were dormant or balding. The thing about needling not working surprises me because studies have shown that virtually all mm gauges can result in significant improvement. We are sort of left with the idea that DHT in your system is so rampant that it simply is too much for any treatment to keep up with perhaps.

 

[Selb]

i've been needling for two years and have been taking oral min for the past 6 months

it hasnt worked for me, my hair's thinner than ever

cant understand why because oral min is meant to be super effective and I've grown a boatload of body hair while on it but nothing on the head

How many grams have you been using?

 

[Selb]

between 5mg and 10mg daily

Hmm, might be worth a try to actually use less for a bit. Like 2.5mg or maybe use topical instead. It’s strange but I’ve seen better results from going lower dose-wise if higher doesn’t work.

 

[-Synergy-]

I really do not understand how people believe applying minoxidil once a day is as effective as twice a day? To me it’s like saying eating once a day is equivalent to eating twice a day. The second you put 5% on it starts to slowly reduce in potency throughout the day. After about 12 hours you would be running on a dose of 3.75%. If you applied another dose of 5% at this point you would be at 8.75%? Wouldn’t the percentage of minoxidil being applied twice a day become compounded?

That is too bad. I mean, I am on so many treatments that perhaps oral minoxidil is superfluous but I do believe that it sped growth of all follicles not just those that were dormant or balding. The thing about needling not working surprises me because studies have shown that virtually all mm gauges can result in significant improvement. We are sort of left with the idea that DHT in your system is so rampant that it simply is too much for any treatment to keep up with perhaps.

Some people can’t even handle the smallest amounts of oral minoxidil. It’s not just DHT but maybe the microbiome of the scalp too. More sebum gets created and the organisms have a feeding party. Now if the immune system wasn’t in the picture already it acts up and hair gets attacked. There’s nutrition in blood that organisms can feed on, maybe that could threaten microneedling results and ultimately cause the results to be less.

 

[dietcoke1987]

Well. A couple of things. For one, for many people regular minoxidil either doesn't work or it works only for maintenance. In that scenario, once a day is enough. The dosage curve with regular minoxidil seems to peter out pretty quickly to the point that soaking one's head twice daily might not do anything more than using it on only balding areas once daily. It certainly shouldn't hurt to use it twice a day. I drink topical and then use foam at night which is easy to apply and blends in without residue. The best bet for someone only using topical would be to look into supplementing sulfurotransferase, which is an enzyme that minoxidil needs in order to be as efficacious as possible. Oral min creates its own sulfurotransferase when it makes its pass through the liver. So minoxidil is a sort of pro-drug in terms of needling to be processed to its metabolites for full effect or perhaps any effect at all.

How do you supplement sulfurotransferase? Was that a typo "supplementing" sulfurotransferase? Do you mean supplement to increase it? If so what does a person supplement?

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

How do you supplement sulfurotransferase? Was that a typo "supplementing" sulfurotransferase? Do you mean supplement to increase it? If so what does a person supplement?

I think that it is available to purchase or a person can purchase minoxidil sulfate. I have seen ads for it time to time but it's much more expensive than just "drinking" a few ml of topical.