Is post minoxidil syndrome(pms) real?

[jamesbooker1975]

Study on minoxidil and androgen
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4039155/

Really ? Minoxidil is a drug with more than 40 years of studies ! There is only one minoxidil study IN VITRO that say " Minoxidil may suppress androgen receptor-related functions " and I quoted " MAY " . Yes , may be yes or may be not. Oral minoxidil was used for decades without any sign of antiandrogen activity .
Most, no all, but most in vitro study are simple useless. It is really hard to then by pass that to real life. Yeah, may be minoxidil have anti androgen activity if you use 20 grams per days, who knows. "To test minoxidil effects on AR protein stability, we treated cells with 10 μM minoxidil"
Yes, so ? How much is that equivalent to a human body ? How much an average person need to use to have that amount in their cells ?

 

[jamesbooker1975]

Like stated in that thread, he was on a LOT of minoxidil + many other endocrine disrupting sh*t.

His medications included minoxidil 50 mg daily, labetalol 400 mg daily, furosemide 320 mg daily, potassium 80 mEq daily, quinapril 20 mg daily, spironolactone 100 mg daily, simvastatin 40 mg daily, lansoprazole 30 mg daily, and aspirin 81 mg twice a week

Spironolactone alone at that dose is a very potent antiandrogen, should gave to him b**ch tits for sure .

 

[MrPortugal]

PFS from minoxidil seems to me it's more like a psychological thing

I'm very sensitive to oral finasteride complete shut down my body and took few years to back to "normal" and still recovering

But Zix, topical Dutasteride and ketoconazole did not gave me sides and I'm very sensitive

 

[NW9000]

It's sad that one in a million basket cases like this ruin it for everyone else

 

[NW9000]

Check this, hundreds of people who experience sides form minoxidil. ED and libido issues are common side effects that are mentioned:

ROGAINE EXTRA STRENGTH (FOR MEN): Side Effects, Reviews by Patients - AskaPatient.com

Consumer ratings and reviews for ROGAINE EXTRA STRENGTH (FOR MEN) (MINOXIDIL). Includes 312 patient ratings with average score of 1.6, comments, side effects, dosage, sex, age, time taken.

www.askapatient.com

@jamesbooker1975 what do you think?

Hair loss forums are repositories of mental illness and trolls, you should know this by now

 

[Excaliburus]

In one sense minoxidil is more risky because the way minoxidil works for hair loss is still unknown. There are some theories how minoxidil works on hair.

And there are many people who report pms even after they quit minoxidil.

Minoxidil and heart side effects. A person said minoxidil can change shape of your heart.

I've stopped minoxidil/Rogaine after 2 weeks due to excessive shedding..

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

I've stopped minoxidil/Rogaine after 2 weeks due to excessive shedding..

So your hair loss strategy is what exactly? Commiserating with other bald/balding guys? Cause we tend not to be much fun if on here. The fun guys with hair are out with all of the chicks, one might observe but tell us about your titrating practices and preferences since we might help you avoid walking the plank if you still have enough hair to want/need to keep it.

 

[Jeju]

If you have already experience bad sides from finasteride don’t mess with minoxidil, keto shampoo and definitely not saw palmetto. No until you are recovered. During my year of having sides post finasteride I would experience lower sex drive using just keto. One application of minoxidil completely nuked my sex drive. I couldn’t care less what this forum believes really. I’m 100% now and use nizoral with no problems, but I did mess with me at one point. Before finasteride sides I smothered minoxidil over my face and had no issues then either.

 

[Jeju]

If you use minoxidil now, do you still notice any (sexual) problems?

Also how did you recover from fina sides, did you do anything special?

I’ve never use minoxidil on my head. Tried it a few times on my face. I’ve been tempted to give it a go but I won’t because I don’t want any ED problems.

I tried a bunch of supplements, black maca is the only thing that really helped my sex drive. Time healed me really. I was up and down for months. I never thought I’d recover but I started to notice I was getting morning wood everyday again. Amazing feeling.
Like I said, I didn’t use even nizoral during this year. I ate healthy and went to the gym a lot.

 

[royce gracie]

Gotta admit I don't understand what's going on in like 90% of that article in the OP. Way above my pay grade. But inhibiting the androgen receptor seems fundamentally different from inhibiting 5ar. The latter not only inhibts neurosteroid production but also indirectly changes hormone levels by supressing DHT conversion. Just inhibiting the receptor wouldn't do that. It would only prevent androgens from having their effect on the receptor which in the case of hair loss would be a good thing. Like I said, that study is Greek to me, so I can't tell if they're referring to the receptors on the scalp or throughout the entire body. It also doesn't seem like they mention any potential sexual side effects that this might cause, but maybe that's beyond the focus of the study.

Would be nice if someone who knows sh*t about science could break this down lol

 

[BurningCoals]

Also, does it really make sense that minoxidil inhibits androgen receptors? It works to grow facial hair and other body hair, which are androgen-dependent.

 

[BurningCoals]

Yup, still some studies suggesting it's an anti androgen. But you're right, minoxidil grows hair all over the body, this isn't the case for something like finasteride. Hell, some people report having less body hair on fina, slower beard growth, etc.

But who really knows? Could be a complex mechanism that's at play

Well we don't really know the proper mechanism of minoxidil, so who knows.

There are some sources that state that DHT causes the growth of facial hair, while T causes the formation and thickening of it, which is interesting. Although people with natural 5AR deficiency apparently have poor beards, so I do think it plays some role, and I have seen reports online that finasteride stopped their facial and body hair, while others say it has continued to improve. shrugs

 

[mooreu]

Lol I had 5 of the finasteride sides and none of the minoxidil sides

 

[royce gracie]

Found something very interesting, a comparison between finasteride and minoxidil adverse events reported to FDA:

Adverse events or ‘side effects’

Adverse events or ‘side effects’ FDA maintains a database of reports about adverse drug reactions, including thousands of reports about finasteride. These were analyzed against reports for other drugs, to find out which adverse events were most strongly linked to finasteride. Below, adverse event

finasterideinfo.org

The grouping of finasteride adverse events has no overlap with minoxidil adverse events

Most reported sides for fina were sexual, for minoxidil they were skin related.

View attachment 168618

View attachment 168619

Yeah I know similar arguments have been deployed against PFS, which I believe has some legitimacy. But really, Minoxidil has been available for hair loss since 1988 and sexual side effects in the medical literature do not exist. Unlike with Finasteride where we had sexual side effects from the very first trials and thanks to the Reuters investigation, evidence that Merck covered up long term side effects after discontinuation. If there's anything to this I would suspect it's caused by people taking massive doses of minoxidil and giving themselves chronic low blood pressure, which might result in ED. Using a recommended amount topically I cannot imagine this would ever happen to you. The two in vitro studies looking into a potential anti androgen receptor effect in minoxidil are not particularly strong or suggest any kind of hormone or sexual dysfunction in humans. It's entirely possible that the studies are bunk in the first place.

 

[blue16]

Thanks for all the opinions, had no idea Minoxidil could potentially cause ED issues.

I've kept a close eye on any potential changes to my body, skin, functions etc. And as a user of Rogaine for 1.5 years, I personally have not noted any side effects other than the occasional, slightly irritated scalp.

Regardless of the unlikely chance of any side effects I haven't noticed, due to the small amount of systemic absoroption, I feel it is still a way safer option than Finasteride. And it has helped keep my hair, and increased my self esteem, and confidence which to me far outweighs any theoretical downsides.

 

[BurningCoals]

Shouldn't stuff like green tea also be able to induce PFS symptoms?

 

[BurningCoals]

Haven't read any stories about that but I've seen many PFS cases from Saw Palmetto...

Not to diss people with PFS, but when people get horrific sides from something as weak as saw palmetto, is it really that likely that it was the SP that caused it? People have been using that for many years, but there's no stories of people getting fucked up by it before the days of the internet.

 

[BurningCoals]

I think that most likely, nocebo explains a large portion of PFS cases.

The question is, when you correct for nocebo, is PFS still real? My best guess is yes.

Yeah I think there is something to PFS just due to the sheer number of reports that stretch back so far in time, but a lot of it is mental illness and nocebo IMO. I mean there's people who claimed to get it from ketoconazole shampoo. Sorry, but I just don't buy that.

 

[BurningCoals]

I wouldn't call Saw Palmetto weak, especially in large doses. It does the same as finasteride in essence so it's no surprise if some get PFS from it.

And PFS is certainly real, think about it rationally, you're blocking the most androgenic hormone for years and some actually think it will only affect the state of their hair... I can post a ton of studies but just thinking about it logically tells enough. Of course this is a sensitive topic, especially for people who take fina themselves. Be happy you're doing good.

Yeah I said in the above post that I do think there is something to the PFS stories, I'm just more skeptical to the more outlandish stuff out there. But blocking hormones in your entire body is obviously not great and ideal, that should be clear to everyone.

 

[BurningCoals]

64 synchronized Joe Rogans - YouTube