Is There Any Hope For Future Hair Loss Treatments?

[hilbert]

Ok, 4-5 years and you'll get your therapies that will regrow your hair. I'm a nice guy now for you? Off course I am, cause that's what you want to hear.

Maybe it's better to keep your expectations low. That way you can't get disappointed.

I'm pessimistic by nature. And that's killing my hair, too.
It's been proven that a long period with hopes up and then disappointment is still less stressful than a long period of no hopes and then a pleasant surprise.
I'm trying to apply the former methodology, but I'm not succeeding.

Nevertheless, we're just spectators and we can't really know what's boiling in each kitchen.
Shiseido silent so not delivering?
Tsuji claiming the same stuff since 2011 so a dead end?
S-equol microdoses in Brotzu's lotion so safety concerns?

Imho we're all speculating here, we don't have enough reliable info to be either optimistic or pessimistic.
So, each of us flip the coin and chose, according to his nature.

 

[Giiizmo]

Imho we're all speculating here, we don't have enough reliable info to be either optimistic or pessimistic.

What we "have" is an ongoing succession of disappointments. It's hard to stay optimistic when you see that there hasn't been anything new for more than twenty years (Proscar has been around since 1992, minoxidil since 1988).

Managing hair loss with what little tools we have and coping is pretty much all we've got for now. I'd love to be optimistic but sometimes acceptance can be a relief.

 

[Swoop]

@hilbert

I think we have chance that we'll might replace finasteride/minoxidil in the near future with other methods that have a better side effect profile and are more convenient. However in terms of reversal of Androgenetic Alopecia? I'm highly sure that this isn't going to get much better in the coming years than it is now. Until the day comes that someone like Dr. Tsuji hits clinical trials and succeeds. I mean you can look at the current pipeilne treatments and the evidence. What would make you so sure that this will be otherwise? There is no indication of such evidence, contrary to that the evidence that we have points to such events not happening. You have data from histogen, from SM, from bimatoprost, you have tons of anecdotal reports from DP2 antagonists, JAK useless bullsh*t, etc...

I believe that in terms of hair regrowth probably a regime of (chemical) castration + 17b-estradiol + minoxidil is still by far the best one can do the coming years. Which is a sad thing. But even that doesn't grow hair always back, remember.

I think we surely have reliable info to make a somewhat accurate prediction of the current pipeline treatments. Aside from Replicel (shiseido) that is.

That being said replacement of finasteride/minoxidil would still be a great thing and a huge step forward.

 

[constrictedvoid]

@hilbert

I think we have chance that we'll might replace finasteride/minoxidil in the near future with other methods that have a better side effect profile and are more convenient. However in terms of reversal of Androgenetic Alopecia? I'm highly sure that this isn't going to get much better in the coming years than it is now. Until the day comes that someone like Dr. Tsuji hits clinical trials and succeeds. I mean you can look at the current pipeilne treatments and the evidence. What would make you so sure that this will be otherwise? There is no indication of such evidence, contrary to that the evidence that we have points to such events not happening. You have data from histogen, from SM, from bimatoprost, you have tons of anecdotal reports from DP2 antagonists, JAK useless bullsh*t, etc...

I believe that in terms of hair regrowth probably a regime of (chemical) castration + 17b-estradiol + minoxidil is still by far the best one can do the coming years. Which is a sad thing. But even that doesn't grow hair always back, remember.

I think we surely have reliable info to make a somewhat accurate prediction of the current pipeline treatments. Aside from Replicel (shiseido) that is.

That being said replacement of finasteride/minoxidil would still be a great thing and a huge step forward.

Since I still don't seem to have the postcount needed, is there any chance you could send me a PM so I could reply with a question? It relates to the stuff discussed in this thread, but I'd rather send it as a personal question than a public one for now.

 

[Swoop]

Since I still don't seem to have the postcount needed, is there any chance you could send me a PM so I could reply with a question? It relates to the stuff discussed in this thread, but I'd rather send it as a personal question than a public one for now.

Hmm you should be able to PM already. Strange... Anyway I have just sent you one.

 

[GotHair?]

Damn Sogeking. That's a long while ago. Welcome to the forum. Well seems you are here already quite some time just undercover .

Thank you Swoop. I remember when you started posting on the other forum first you were met with scepticism and hostility. Might be even from me, and I apologize for that. But honestly you were right from the start. And after 5 years on the forums and countless snake oils, and quarter treatments I agree with you that the real cure is in the hands of Tsuji whenever he might go to clinical trials.

 

[hilbert]

@Swoop indeed it's pointless to speak about optimism and pessimism without specifying the target.
And here it's plenty of users, each one with his own target in mind. So we're mixing different moods aiming at different outcomes. A mess.

To me, replacing [and improving] the effectiveness of minoxidil + finasteride is within our reach in the next few years (or even before, if one is so daring to play with experimentals or bet money on things like kerastem).
And that's one target. My own, btw.

Of course regrowing a full head of hair requires stem cell transplantation or cloning. Still far away, but not necessarily as far away as 10 yrs ago, right?
Maybe transplants plus some cloning / stem cells tricks will be there in ~10 yrs. Or the full Tsuji stuff, which could be even better.
A genetic fix is still a full dream, not for our lives.

Anyway, I'm too pessimistic and tired in this fight (started in '91) to convince people here to keep their hopes up. I only have energies to convince myself to go ahead in the muds, trying to avoid finasteride.

 

[Swoop]

Thank you Swoop. I remember when you started posting on the other forum first you were met with scepticism and hostility. Might be even from me, and I apologize for that. But honestly you were right from the start. And after 5 years on the forums and countless snake oils, and quarter treatments I agree with you that the real cure is in the hands of Tsuji whenever he might go to clinical trials.

Can't remember you being hostile haha. And even if you were, no need for apologies man .

 

[Kirby]

It's depressing how since I've been following hair loss forums, the 'cutting edge' subforums used to be the busiest sections of the forums, now even BTT's is empty. This one here on HairLossTalk.com seems to be the only regularly updated one! And even whole forums like HLH, one busy, barely get posts any longer.

 

[thomps1523]

That blog is the furthest away from objectively journalism though. Selective and biased. Filled mostly with desperate people that want to keep their hope up. Well as long as it makes them feel better..

But hey indeed as long as a CEO makes a claim, it works!

So just out of curiosity Swoop I want to ask you seeing as you understand the science better than I do. I asked a few weeks ago how it is that hairs can enter a stage in which they cannot be revived. With replicel everyone seems to be saying it can be a preventative treatment, but the science also indicates that even though it may not be able to revive follicles that are no longer viable, can't the dermal sheath cup cells induce epidermal cup cells to cluster and create new hairs? I know their trials didn't show much, but they were being done to show yield yet right? If you get a chance to explain that more to me as to why people seem to think it may only be preventative despite the fact that the science says it should also create new hairs it would really help, thanks!

 

[abcdefg]

Brotzu lotion best case gets somewhere near finasteride with a similar side effect profile minus the brain issues by not changing the 5 ar 3 enzyme and neurosteroid conversion. Then brotzu could replace finasteride with helping keep hair as a best case scenario.
SM getting 10 percent is no joke that is almost equivalent to minoxidil and I dont see much better than that coming in the next 3 or 4 years so beggars cant be choosers its better then nothing.
male pattern baldness is a battle for maintenance and that isnt changing for at least 4 or 5 years so keep taking that finasteride or start taking it because the whole AA angle isnt going anywhere we just need something safer and easier to take as prevention like brotzu or anything really. A lot of people dont see the advantages of finasteride as overcoming the negatives especially taking that stuff for decades possibly.

 

[constrictedvoid]

Brotzu lotion best case gets somewhere near finasteride with a similar side effect profile minus the brain issues by not changing the 5 ar 3 enzyme and neurosteroid conversion. Then brotzu could replace finasteride with helping keep hair as a best case scenario.
SM getting 10 percent is no joke that is almost equivalent to minoxidil and I dont see much better than that coming in the next 3 or 4 years so beggars cant be choosers its better then nothing.
male pattern baldness is a battle for maintenance and that isnt changing for at least 4 or 5 years so keep taking that finasteride or start taking it because the whole AA angle isnt going anywhere we just need something safer and easier to take as prevention like brotzu or anything really. A lot of people dont see the advantages of finasteride as overcoming the negatives especially taking that stuff for decades possibly.

I think the idea that topical equol has similar sides to oral finasteride is at least as speculative as the idea that the efficacy is similar.

 

[Pray The Bald Away]

It's depressing how since I've been following hair loss forums, the 'cutting edge' subforums used to be the busiest sections of the forums, now even ***'s is empty. This one here on HairLossTalk.com seems to be the only regularly updated one! And even whole forums like HLH, one busy, barely get posts any longer.

That's because everyone has aggregated here.

 

[Afro_Vacancy]

I think the idea that topical equol has similar sides to oral finasteride is at least as speculative as the idea that the efficacy is similar.

Agreed.

 

[shwareb]

I found this: http://the-japan-news.com/news/article/0003046120

But isn't 60 people a really small sample of people?

 

[Afro_Vacancy]

I found this: http://the-japan-news.com/news/article/0003046120

But isn't 60 people a really small sample of people?

60 people is more than sufficient if they're measuring a large effect.

Imagine you're measuring the effect of suntanning. You take 30 people and you leave them indoors all day. You take another 30 people and you send them to a tropical beach for a day, leave them outside for 10, 12 hours, and then at the end of the day you measure the difference in skin colour and rate of burn. Since the difference will be very large, having 30 people in each group will be sufficient.

Large samples are needed to measure outliers (rare effects), to measure small changes (i.e. leaving people on the beach for 30 minutes), or to get more precision in the size of the effects.

If the study had ~240 people, then the precision of the effect would be measured twice as precisely.

 

[farkhairloss]

It's depressing how since I've been following hair loss forums, the 'cutting edge' subforums used to be the busiest sections of the forums, now even ***'s is empty. This one here on HairLossTalk.com seems to be the only regularly updated one! And even whole forums like HLH, one busy, barely get posts any longer.

The forum you are referring to, people were getting really annoyed with old mate Winston and moderating of posts for no reason. Just about everyone was on moderation, they just want to promote hair transplants over there and its in there best interest as they are sponsored by hair transplant doctors. Why would they want to promote better treatments, if there ever was a cure there would be little need for hair transplant doctors.

 

[Xaser94]

The forum you are referring to, people were getting really annoyed with old mate Winston and moderating of posts for no reason. Just about everyone was on moderation, they just want to promote hair transplants over there and its in there best interest as they are sponsored by hair transplant doctors. Why would they want to promote better treatments, if there ever was a cure there would be little need for hair transplant doctors.

\

This is exactly why I left. God I hate that place.

 

[distracted]

I found this: http://the-japan-news.com/news/article/0003046120

But isn't 60 people a really small sample of people?

"The research team will spend three years working to determine whether the patients will be able to regain lost hair"

Does the three years here just mean for Phase 2? That'd suck.

 

[Afro_Vacancy]

"The research team will spend three years working to determine whether the patients will be able to regain lost hair"

Does the three years here just mean for Phase 2? That'd suck.

There are no phases here. This isn't a pharmaceutical.

They're selling a cosmetic.

They're doing a trial for marketing purposes.

And three years is more impressive than the multitude of sham products with their 12 week trials.