I def wouldn't disagree. After this + @Long John Silver 's extreme troll, I just feel like some part of this is obviously a prank or something.
Italian Hair Loss Lotion To Hit The Market In 2016
- Thread starter paleocapa89
- Start date
I def wouldn't disagree. After this + @Long John Silver 's extreme troll, I just feel like some part of this is obviously a prank or something.
- Reaction score
- 85
Wierd observatiron....
I was sitting in a restaurant in vegas watching people walk below in full sunlight .
There were so many balding guys!! Just wow!! Iam appalled that doctors haven't figured this sh*t out yet. a.) Its too complicated
B.) Medical field doesnt give a sh*t about balidng.
I was sitting in a restaurant in vegas watching people walk below in full sunlight .
There were so many balding guys!! Just wow!! Iam appalled that doctors haven't figured this sh*t out yet. a.) Its too complicated
B.) Medical field doesnt give a sh*t about balidng.
Hello, there has been excitement about a revised Fidia statement.
Despite this, I just realized that 5 days ago a statement appeared on the Fidia Deutschland website. It's identical to the statement in the English version.
This may provide comfort to some on here.
Despite this, I just realized that 5 days ago a statement appeared on the Fidia Deutschland website. It's identical to the statement in the English version.
This may provide comfort to some on here.
- Reaction score
- 1,623
Okay, this may be wishful thinking by me, but I think I've just found something interesting. I was looking for the hair count improvements of finasteride during the first 6 months, but I couldn't find any. I then came across the paper attached, written by the famous italian trichologist Antonella Tosti (just look at her bio and online references, a sh*t ton of publications and university collaborations with italian and american centers/universities). The paper talks about the "double effect" of finasteride, related to the hair cycle. I'll copy-paste the study:
" [...] We give further evidence of a
double effect of finasteride on hair growth.
The increase in the hair count observed during the first year of treatment indicates that the drug actively promotes the re-entry of resting follicles into the anagen phase, including those follicles that have abnormally prolonged their telogen phase. These follicles are empty because they have shed the telogen shaft before starting the production of a new hair shaft, as occurs in normal follicles. The phenomenon of the "empty follicles" strongly contributes to the hair thinning that clinically characterizes androgenetic alopecia. Differences in the
increase of the hair count between different patients and different scalp areas may partially be related to
the magnitude of the empty follicle phenomenon at baseline. The anagen promoting effect of finasteride (increase in the hair count) is evident during the first
year of treatment and is responsible for the "early improvement" noticed as early as the third month of treatment in some patients.
The continuous improvement of the subjective assessments (patient self-assessment, investigator
assessment, global photography assessment) after the first year of treatment is not related to the hair
count that remains stable, but to the action of finasteride on anagen growth. The prolongation of anagen induced by the drug results in progressive thickening and elongation of miniaturized and intermediate hair. This effect explains why patients continue to experience improvement of the appearance of the hair even if the hair count remains stable. Therefore hair count and subjective assessments document two different phenomena (fable I), which may be independent, and we should keep in mind
that patients may clinically improve even if their hair count does not considerably increase.
Antonella Tosti, MD
Bianca Maria Piraccini, MD
Department of Dermatology
University of Bologna "
I admit that this double effect of finasteride was unknown to me, even if the mechanism of the hair cycle wasn't. Therefore, finasteride is universally known to have a good efficacy on restoring hairs amd maintaining. It seems the core of its mechanism is the maintenance of anagen phase, and effectively the ultimate effect of DHT is the forcing of telogen.
So if basically the paper says that the results of the prolonging of the anagen phase are the regrowth in the short term and hair rethickening in the long term, if Trinov is effective in pushing this Anagen phase it may have an effect. Regarding the study of fidia, what was statistically very significant was the increase in anagen hairs and the decrease in telogen. Just a line from it:
" [...] Men experienced a constant improvement, and at the end of treatment (6 months), 63.3% of them had experienced an increase in total hair number. A significant increase in anagen hair and a significant decrease in telogen hair were observed starting from 3 months, together with a significant increase in the pull test score. The wash test provided a significantly better score already starting from the first month. No significant increase in the hair diameter was observed at any time point. Women, differently than men, experienced a significant increase in the total number of hair already after the first month of treatment; at 6 months, most (89.7%) had experienced improvement (Figure 6). In women, a significant increase in anagen hair and a significant decrease in telogen hair were observed starting from the first month. Pull test and wash test scores also improved starting from the first month of treatment. Even for women, the hair diameter did not change significantly at any time point. [...] Response of men was slightly different than that of women [...], and its effects on the number of the anagen and telogen hair as well as those on the pull test appeared later in men than in women. These differences might be due to the different hormonal profile of the two sexes. [...] "
Even all the pharmacies are marketing the lotion basing of these 2 informations, and in fact they are the strongest claims resulting from the study. Regrowth happened, but was low (I think, bit honestly I can't find any precise data on regrowth % of finasteride and min at 6th month mark) and even rethickening, bit this one was so low that was defined as "not significant". But if the papers confirm that the rethickening of finasteride happens after the first year of treatment for the most part, why the f*** the Trinov trial ended at 6 months only when Brotzu himself always said "5 years of hairs could be recovered after 2 years of continuous treatment" ? Maybe that's why Brotzu is still defending the lotion with all his forces and that's why he said fidia study was in line with his discoveries? Is the fact that even during the autumnal effluvium the lotion was able to achieve extremely positive wash tests and anagen% somewhat comforting? What the f*** is happening here lmao?
Oh and I found the HQ pic:
Debate is appreciated if you know more...
" [...] We give further evidence of a
double effect of finasteride on hair growth.
The increase in the hair count observed during the first year of treatment indicates that the drug actively promotes the re-entry of resting follicles into the anagen phase, including those follicles that have abnormally prolonged their telogen phase. These follicles are empty because they have shed the telogen shaft before starting the production of a new hair shaft, as occurs in normal follicles. The phenomenon of the "empty follicles" strongly contributes to the hair thinning that clinically characterizes androgenetic alopecia. Differences in the
increase of the hair count between different patients and different scalp areas may partially be related to
the magnitude of the empty follicle phenomenon at baseline. The anagen promoting effect of finasteride (increase in the hair count) is evident during the first
year of treatment and is responsible for the "early improvement" noticed as early as the third month of treatment in some patients.
The continuous improvement of the subjective assessments (patient self-assessment, investigator
assessment, global photography assessment) after the first year of treatment is not related to the hair
count that remains stable, but to the action of finasteride on anagen growth. The prolongation of anagen induced by the drug results in progressive thickening and elongation of miniaturized and intermediate hair. This effect explains why patients continue to experience improvement of the appearance of the hair even if the hair count remains stable. Therefore hair count and subjective assessments document two different phenomena (fable I), which may be independent, and we should keep in mind
that patients may clinically improve even if their hair count does not considerably increase.
Antonella Tosti, MD
Bianca Maria Piraccini, MD
Department of Dermatology
University of Bologna "
I admit that this double effect of finasteride was unknown to me, even if the mechanism of the hair cycle wasn't. Therefore, finasteride is universally known to have a good efficacy on restoring hairs amd maintaining. It seems the core of its mechanism is the maintenance of anagen phase, and effectively the ultimate effect of DHT is the forcing of telogen.
So if basically the paper says that the results of the prolonging of the anagen phase are the regrowth in the short term and hair rethickening in the long term, if Trinov is effective in pushing this Anagen phase it may have an effect. Regarding the study of fidia, what was statistically very significant was the increase in anagen hairs and the decrease in telogen. Just a line from it:
" [...] Men experienced a constant improvement, and at the end of treatment (6 months), 63.3% of them had experienced an increase in total hair number. A significant increase in anagen hair and a significant decrease in telogen hair were observed starting from 3 months, together with a significant increase in the pull test score. The wash test provided a significantly better score already starting from the first month. No significant increase in the hair diameter was observed at any time point. Women, differently than men, experienced a significant increase in the total number of hair already after the first month of treatment; at 6 months, most (89.7%) had experienced improvement (Figure 6). In women, a significant increase in anagen hair and a significant decrease in telogen hair were observed starting from the first month. Pull test and wash test scores also improved starting from the first month of treatment. Even for women, the hair diameter did not change significantly at any time point. [...] Response of men was slightly different than that of women [...], and its effects on the number of the anagen and telogen hair as well as those on the pull test appeared later in men than in women. These differences might be due to the different hormonal profile of the two sexes. [...] "
Even all the pharmacies are marketing the lotion basing of these 2 informations, and in fact they are the strongest claims resulting from the study. Regrowth happened, but was low (I think, bit honestly I can't find any precise data on regrowth % of finasteride and min at 6th month mark) and even rethickening, bit this one was so low that was defined as "not significant". But if the papers confirm that the rethickening of finasteride happens after the first year of treatment for the most part, why the f*** the Trinov trial ended at 6 months only when Brotzu himself always said "5 years of hairs could be recovered after 2 years of continuous treatment" ? Maybe that's why Brotzu is still defending the lotion with all his forces and that's why he said fidia study was in line with his discoveries? Is the fact that even during the autumnal effluvium the lotion was able to achieve extremely positive wash tests and anagen% somewhat comforting? What the f*** is happening here lmao?
Oh and I found the HQ pic:
Debate is appreciated if you know more...
- Reaction score
- 686
First thank you for this informative post.
Second do you know what HQ means xD. This pictures have a really bad resulution. My cellphone takes better pictures.
But i got some € to spare and gonna test the lotion.
If it gives me my good looks back i m gonna post some pictures and insult you all as ugly baldies
MrJolly16
Experienced Member
- Reaction score
- 602
The brotion will work to some extent for some of us (or maybe many)! They know that and that´s why they don´t want to waste their money and time with the study. Brotzu has been using it for a long time and we have already seen the kids.
No one will become N0 again, but it will help us. That´s just what I think and I´m willing to try it.
So, those of us who will try it must post photos to inform the rest. That would be the best way to test the Brotion.
Have a good day fellas!
No one will become N0 again, but it will help us. That´s just what I think and I´m willing to try it.
So, those of us who will try it must post photos to inform the rest. That would be the best way to test the Brotion.
Have a good day fellas!
I don't think the trial done by fidia was planned to be for 2 years study or even to prove if the lotion work or not . They already know. Do you think they bought the patent without any proof ?
The trial was planned to test if the lotion was ready for commercialization or not. Not to prove if the lotion work or not. If you remember back in 2016 when fidia bought the patent they started the trial in may 2016 and brotzu was expecting the release at the end of 2016/ beginning 2017. The time frame between the start of trial and the expected commercialization date is too small to do a 2 years study. But apparently the lotion wasn't ready for commercialization after the first trial due to some stability issue. So they tried to enhance the formula and in summer 2017 They started a new 6 months trial with the new stable formula. The trial finished in early 2018. Later we heard about the three year shelf life but I don't know much about it. In june 2018 they made a meeting with brotzu and they decide the to commercialize the lotion. July they bought the domain name of the website and the name right. In September they started the production. And here we are here.
This is why I don't see anything wrong done by fidia or brotzu. Our over-hype and leak of communication form fidia pushed us to this state.
And as I said, it's brotzu who made the long study (2 year or more) before 2016. And fidia performed trial only to test if it's ready for commercialization. And if you remember back 2016 in stiri where brotzu showed a picture of a little girl curing from AA and he had a picture of 6 months / 1 year and the actual result. That's proove that his own trial for the little girl started at least in 2015 / 2014 or even early.
see video 10:34
Just imagine each trial done by fidia was 2 years long. We would have to wait at least 2022 to get the lotion ready.
Plus I remember that brotzu said in several occasion that for Androgenetic Alopecia patient we will notice improvement after first years of treatment. This is why a 6 month study for me doesn't prove sh*t.
- Reaction score
- 686
maybe we should start a pole to see how many are willing to try trinov and on what else meds these volunters are.
I thought somebody (you ?) gave already created a poll for that ?
- Reaction score
- 764
I’m planning a setipiprant-zinc thymulin-sandalore-trinov regimen. I'm on all of the hype trains all aboard choo choo next stop NW1 YEAH!!
- Reaction score
- 479
How many times does it need to be said. Just look at the hd photos. Look at the hair direction of his thick side-hair in (d), see how the lines are horizontal and pointed toward his forehead? Now do the same for a, b, and c. See how they're vertical and pointed down toward his ears?
Now imagine applying some hair gel to (d), brushing the side hair down toward his ears, and then giving the top a noogie. It will look exactly the same as abc. You all know the massive difference in the appearance of volume between wet and dry hair. If you don't, your hair is still thick as f***. There is no regrowth in the photos and no sign of healthier hair other than the illusion due to it being so dry in comparison to abc.
Now imagine applying some hair gel to (d), brushing the side hair down toward his ears, and then giving the top a noogie. It will look exactly the same as abc. You all know the massive difference in the appearance of volume between wet and dry hair. If you don't, your hair is still thick as f***. There is no regrowth in the photos and no sign of healthier hair other than the illusion due to it being so dry in comparison to abc.
- Reaction score
- 686
It does not to be repeated anymore. Thank you.
- Reaction score
- 686
mine was who is still interested in using it. But another one for people who are willing to share their progress photos iregardless of effeciency would be nice. I will make such a thread but i wait till it is short before release. Otherwise it would get lost till december ^^
- Reaction score
- 50
I will be buying Trinov, I have never taken Finasteride or Minoxidil. So I really hope this stuff works.
Does a company really complete a 6-month study, the time span of which most products won’t realize their full potential, and buy a patent based on this?
I should say, I understand how R&D might only produce a 6-month long study given whatever restrictions they’re working with, either related to time or financial resources; but I don’t quite get how a company aims to take a product to the international market based on a study of 6-months where full results cannot be apprehended.
I should say, I understand how R&D might only produce a 6-month long study given whatever restrictions they’re working with, either related to time or financial resources; but I don’t quite get how a company aims to take a product to the international market based on a study of 6-months where full results cannot be apprehended.
- Reaction score
- 706
f*** you beps.
Do we have the report (> 2years) of the study that Brotzu had conducted ?
Has the report by Brotzu been peer-reviewed ? Otherwise, how reliable would it be since anybody can do research and claim whatever sh*t they want, right ?
Personally, I think 6 month is too early to have any cosmetically visible results, however, something must be happening beneath the scalp and in such cases, biopsy / hair count would be the only tool to prove its efficacy and I doubt Fidia would do such tests.