Italian Hair Loss Lotion To Hit The Market In 2016

[Dolph]

Considering I'm taking oral estradiol (which is surely more potent than topical S-Equol at blocking DHT, I would think?)

This is one of the things that doesn't makea whole lot of sense to me. Just like topical finasteride, wouldn't topical equol work by going systemic?

 

[Afro_Vacancy]

This is one of the things that doesn't makea whole lot of sense to me. Just like topical finasteride, wouldn't topical equol work by going systemic?

The poster you're quoting is trans. She wants the hormones to go systemic.

The goal with topical finasteride or topical equol would be for the scalp to get first dibs on the molecule, and then there's not enough left for the rest of the body.

Further, I'm not sure if equol is dose-independent like finasteride is.

 

[Dolph]

The poster you're quoting is trans. She wants the hormones to go systemic.

I know - hence confusion over why a topical would be any better than her current oral treatment.

The goal with topical finasteride or topical equol would be for the scalp to get first dibs on the molecule, and then there's not enough left for the rest of the body.

Ah. That makes sense, although the scalp is porous enough that I have trouble imagining it could actually work that way. Is that the theory behind H&W's mysterious topical finasteride gel?

 

[Drogedagh]

Of course, it has the same side effects as oral.

source?

 

[Dolph]

If I recall correctly, k9 has used both oral and topical finasteride with the same side effects.

I just started topical finasteride and all I can say is that the sides I had on oral finasteride haven't gone away yet, but that would take a month anyway.

 

[recedingyt]

I know - hence confusion over why a topical would be any better than her current oral treatment.


Ah. That makes sense, although the scalp is porous enough that I have trouble imagining it could actually work that way. Is that the theory behind H&W's mysterious topical finasteride gel?

As I understand it, this lotion has two approaches: DGLA (which metabolizes into PGE1) for regrowth and S-Equol for maintenance/topical DHT inhibition.

I'm not worried about the S-Equol. I have that angle of this approach covered by oral estradiol and oral finasteride (I think, anyway.. I'm no expert). The PGE1 is what I'm concerned about. The whole reason they are using DGLA instead of pure PGE1 is to avoid classification as a drug. So, it stands to reason pure PGE1 would be even more effective. That's why I want to know the concentration of DGLA and the vehicle used so I can try to roughly imitate a "best case scenario" for this sort of approach.

 

[AlexieJ]

I will definitely look into this. It looks promising though. It will be very helpful if there are before and after pictures.

 

[I.D WALKER]

According to a Spanish forum Brotzku alleges he'll show pics of a young girl he's treating sometime in May.

I don't exactly get why his "patients" enrollment numbers are so conservative. Seems rather stange?
Well anyway this time of year May usually starts feeling a long way off.

Last page.

http://foro.recuperarelpelo.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=59970

 

[mr_robot]

I'm glad to see you guys have read the patent properly, you're missing the third main component: L-propionyl-carnitine

 

[I.D WALKER]

https://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/Carnitine-HealthProfessional/

Quite an impressive repertoire of medicinal possibilities. I believe it was Brotzku's initial work with diabetes,
that serendipitously led to his hair loss patent

 

[Follisket]

According to a Spanish forum Brotzku alleges he'll show pics of a young girl he's treating sometime in May.

Thanks for the info though. I'm also curious; how much do we know about equol as a DHT suppressant? Specifically, how and why could we expect this to be side-effect free? Or is it not really side-effect free per se and instead counteracts the sides with L-propionyl-carnitine, which - if I understand correctly - is also used to treat erectile dysfunction and low testosterone levels?

 

[Afro_Vacancy]

Thanks for the info though. I'm also curious; how much do we know about equol as a DHT suppressant? Specifically, how and why could we expect this to be side-effect free? Or is it not really side-effect free per se and instead counteracts the sides with L-propionyl-carnitine, which - if I understand correctly - is also used to treat erectile dysfunction and low testosterone levels?

Finasteride suppresses DHT by preventing the body from making DHT, leading to more T and more E.

Equol suppresses DHT by deactivating DHT. You still have all the DHT molecules in your body, they're just inert.

 

[I.D WALKER]

You're welcome.
If you're worried about adverse sides specifically from topical s-equol, so far I have been unable to find evidence that warrants concern(s).
So it's safety profile appears to be solid.

http://www.**********************.org/topical-hair-loss-treatment/Folexen-S-Equol-hair-loss-treatment.asphttp://rbej.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1477-7827-9-4

 

[Follisket]

Ah, I see, thanks for the clarification. So it basically avoids that whole hormonal feedback loop with estrogen countering the excess unconverted testosterone that leads to side-effects.
It really does sound great in theory, but then why haven't we given this a proper try yet? I see it's been discussed on hair loss forums in the past, so what went wrong? Too expensive, unreliable sources, or did people simply not get any results?

 

[mr_robot]

Thanks for the info though. I'm also curious; how much do we know about equol as a DHT suppressant? Specifically, how and why could we expect this to be side-effect free? Or is it not really side-effect free per se and instead counteracts the sides with L-propionyl-carnitine, which - if I understand correctly - is also used to treat erectile dysfunction and low testosterone levels?

No, by itself L-propionyl-carnitine does not treat ED, used in conjunction with v**** it is used to treat ED in individuals with diabetes. Brotzkus' work with diabetes and as a vascular surgeon is probably why he is familiar with the stuff, plus it does lend credence to it being an accidental discovery.

- - - Updated - - -

Ah, I see, thanks for the clarification. So it basically avoids that whole hormonal feedback loop with estrogen countering the excess unconverted testosterone that leads to side-effects.
It really does sound great in theory, but then why haven't we given this a proper try yet? I see it's been discussed on hair loss forums in the past, so what went wrong? Too expensive, unreliable sources, or did people simply not get any results?

By itself it may not do much, same way as PGE1 only produces peach fuzz when tested according to the patent. In fact together they may not do much either, it may be the L-propionyl-carnitine that acts as the catalyst and provides the synergy although I'm no chemist so I have no idea.

- - - Updated - - -

You're welcome.
If you're worried about adverse sides specifically from topical s-equol, so far I have been unable to find evidence that warrants concern(s).
So it's safety profile appears to be solid.

http://www.**********************.org/topical-hair-loss-treatment/Folexen-S-Equol-hair-loss-treatment.asphttp://rbej.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1477-7827-9-4

Well if it goes systemic then it will have the same sides as 5ar inhibitors, the difference being that whilst one reduces the level of DHT, the other stops the DHT from doing anything useful so whilst mthe echanism is different the end result would be the same.

 

[abcdefg]

Yeah I agree it seems it would have the same sides as say finasteride if used orally. Until it has proof though I am not really going to give it much thought.

 

[SuicidalTraveler]

No, by itself L-propionyl-carnitine does not treat ED, used in conjunction with v**** it is used to treat ED in individuals with diabetes. Brotzkus' work with diabetes and as a vascular surgeon is probably why he is familiar with the stuff, plus it does lend credence to it being an accidental discovery.

- - - Updated - - -



By itself it may not do much, same way as PGE1 only produces peach fuzz when tested according to the patent. In fact together they may not do much either, it may be the L-propionyl-carnitine that acts as the catalyst and provides the synergy although I'm no chemist so I have no idea.

- - - Updated - - -



Well if it goes systemic then it will have the same sides as 5ar inhibitors, the difference being that whilst one reduces the level of DHT, the other stops the DHT from doing anything useful so whilst mthe echanism is different the end result would be the same.

We all know that DHT is required for facial hair development. Could this treatment hinder further facial hair development?

 

[Follisket]

Well if it goes systemic then it will have the same sides as 5ar inhibitors, the difference being that whilst one reduces the level of DHT, the other stops the DHT from doing anything useful so whilst mthe echanism is different the end result would be the same.

I don't know, depends on what actually causes sides. I mean, if it's true that the side-effects are really just the result of an increase in estrogen as a reaction to all the excess testosterone that isn't being converted to DHT due to 5ar inhibition, then this should take care of it.

Testosterone would still be used up through conversion to DHT yet the latter would be rendered harmless. So no excess testosterone --> no estrogen counter --> no sides?

Unless, of course, the side-effects are simply due to the lack of DHT itself, in which case - yeah, we're still screwed.

 

[paleocapa89]

not to mention that finasteride inhibits 5AR which does other stuff as well beside converting T to DHT

 

[Swoop]

The biological action of equol is mostly centered on having affinity to the estrogen receptors. Both of the estrogen receptors are expressed in the hair follicle, ERa and ERb. It has a very weak affinity to ERa and a higher affinity to ERb, but it's still pretty weak comparable to estradiol.

Equol doesn't directly have any action on DHT, if it has probably indirectly through upregulation of SHBG, which leads to a decrease in free testosterone levels and this in turn leads to a decrease in DHT.

Also some humans can produce equol after soy consumption, more asians are capable of doing this than for example in the western world.