Kythera submits Setipripant for IND to FDA - 9/22

[Ziggyz123]

That's a short assumption to make. Chongy is right the lack of itching or the relieve of itching says nothing. You could apply one of the most potent glucocorticoids for instance bethamethasone and be totally or partially relieved of itching. Your scalp will feel great and awesome. Yet your hair on your scalp will say goodbye and you will continue to lose hair.

I understand why you'd say that but it really isn't a "short assumption" because it has scientific research has to back it up. I'm telling from experience that I had no itch/burn/sting etc.. Until I started losing my hair. I've also tried steroids etc.. But the problem isn't on the surface it is inside and steroids aren't the answer.

 

[Swoop]

We're talking in terms of Androgenetic Alopecia though. And using Androgenetic Alopecia treatments. I've tried every cortico out there, including clobesol propionate which is far stronger than beta, and it does not relieve my Androgenetic Alopecia inflammation. Probably because it's constantly stimulated by DHT, you need to be constantly inhibiting that inflammatory stimulant (whether thats 5ARi, AA or potentially CRTH2). Most people's Androgenetic Alopecia inflammation is relieved when they start on finasteride/dutasteride/RU/CB whatever. It's always a positive sign because it means less androgen mediated inflammation and therefore less damage to the hair follicle.

Perhaps you didn't find relieve of itching but many people did/do find a huge scalp relieve with corticosteroids in terms of itching and inflammation even if not on dutasteride/RU/finasteride whatsoever. In fact corticosteroids are known to act as anti-itch as you know and are even prescribed for this reason (including on the scalp). Yet I don't see corticosteroids stopping hairloss or acting as a maintenance treatment. This could be perfectly the same story with DP2 antagonists, perhaps they relieve some symptoms associated with Androgenetic Alopecia but will do nothing for the loss of hair. Or perhaps they will do nothing for Androgenetic Alopecia but only modulate hair follicle cycling as prostaglandins are known to do since the 90's. Or yes perhaps they will act as a maintenance treatment.

Back in 2012 however there was a huge GB of OC459 of 70+ people. Besides that groupbuy many people bought the compound. Same stories there; "my itch is gone', "shedding is down", "scalp feels great". Today I don't see it a particular popular pick. That's strange to me, doesn't make sense.

Anyway we'll know very soon if Seti will hold itself or be a temporary hype.

 

[Dench57]

Perhaps you didn't find relieve of itching but many people did/do find a huge scalp relieve with corticosteroids in terms of itching and inflammation even if not on dutasteride/RU/finasteride whatsoever. In fact corticosteroids are known to act as anti-itch as you know and are even prescribed for this reason (including on the scalp). Yet I don't see corticosteroids stopping hairloss or acting as a maintenance treatment.

If people are getting a "huge scalp relieve" as you say with corticosteroids then perhaps it is helping with hairloss, at least temporarily. There are people who use weak corticos sparingly as part of a regimen (for example Daivobet) but you won't find many people using it as a maintenance treatment for several reasons. They aren't meant to be used long term because they can thin or damage the skin, and thus the hair. Corticos may help our hair by inhibiting inflammatory mediators implicated in the miniaturisation of the follicle, but they also suppress growth factors necessary for the follicle to grow. Corticosteroids are used effectively to treat other forms of alopecia, but I don't know much about the pathology of those diseases.

Nizoral for example is an anti-fungal and anti-inflammatory, it relieves Androgenetic Alopecia inflammation/itch and we know that it's good for our hair. It targets the Androgenetic Alopecia inflammation directly, disrupting the DHT->inflammation pathway by competitively binding to the AR and also degrading it. Meaning less inflammation, less itch, less hair miniaturisation. You won't see people using Nizoral alone as a maintenance treatment either, because it's not strong enough. Maybe if you sat with it in your head all day but then, like someone who applied corticos several times a day, long term, it would become too harsh and actually damaging to hair.

 

[hellouser]

Nizoral for example is an anti-fungal and anti-inflammatory, it relieves Androgenetic Alopecia inflammation/itch and we know that it's good for our hair. It targets the Androgenetic Alopecia inflammation directly, disrupting the DHT->inflammation pathway by competitively binding to the AR and also degrading it. Meaning less inflammation, less itch, less hair miniaturisation. You won't see people using Nizoral alone as a maintenance treatment either, because it's not strong enough. Maybe if you sat with it in your head all day but then, like someone who applied corticos several times a day, long term, it would become too harsh and actually damaging to hair.

From what I remember reading about Nizoral, it inhibits arachidonic acid, so it effectively inhibits PGD2 but also PGE2 and all other good stuff.

 

[Dench57]

From what I remember reading about Nizoral, it inhibits arachidonic acid, so it effectively inhibits PGD2 but also PGE2 and all other good stuff.

Yep it does. I would imagine the upsides (anti-inflammatory, sebum removal, binding to and degrading the AR) would outweigh the downsides (PGE2 suppression) of ketoconazole. Don't know for sure though.

 

[Swoop]

If people are getting a "huge scalp relieve" as you say with corticosteroids then perhaps it is helping with hairloss, at least temporarily. There are people who use weak corticos sparingly as part of a regimen (for example Daivobet) but you won't find many people using it as a maintenance treatment for several reasons. They aren't meant to be used long term because they can thin or damage the skin, and thus the hair. Corticos may help our hair by inhibiting inflammatory mediators implicated in the miniaturisation of the follicle, but they also suppress growth factors necessary for the follicle to grow. Corticosteroids are used effectively to treat other forms of alopecia, but I don't know much about the pathology of those diseases.

Nizoral for example is an anti-fungal and anti-inflammatory, it relieves Androgenetic Alopecia inflammation/itch and we know that it's good for our hair. It targets the Androgenetic Alopecia inflammation directly, disrupting the DHT->inflammation pathway by competitively binding to the AR and also degrading it. Meaning less inflammation, less itch, less hair miniaturisation. You won't see people using Nizoral alone as a maintenance treatment either, because it's not strong enough. Maybe if you sat with it in your head all day but then, like someone who applied corticos several times a day, long term, it would become too harsh and actually damaging to hair.

Well what is "helping with hair loss"? Many things might help you somewhat with hairloss by perhaps having some impact either on hair follicle cycling or having impact on the pathway of androgenetic alopecia. However aside from the androgen angle (inhibiting androgens or androgen receptors) nothing will really help you maintain that hair, thus far We want the PGD2 angle to maintain hair right? We don't want it to be a sub-par treatment that "relieves itch" or "makes your scalp feel great" while your hair follicles are still (slowly) getting destroyed. Nizoral is useless too as a stand-alone. Only very marginally helps as a additive imo.

Because of that anecdotes like reduced itch is not enough to evaluate a treatment and say that it helps. Photo evaluation longer term or strong anecdotes would be far more helpful. RU58841 for example over the years has only become bigger. Why? Well obviously because it's a potent AR antagonist and thus functions upstream in the chain. But mainly because we saw pictures from people who got better quality of hair from it, we saw legit well respected members vouch for it, we saw people DROPPING their finasteride/dutasteride for it and still maintaining on RU, we even saw people do better on it than finasteride. Vica versa obviously too. Some people do better on finasteride/dutasteride, but that doesn't matter right now.

You get the point. It's either important in the chain of androgenetic alopecia (works upstream?) or it's not. Evaluation of hair stability/hair improvement is thus far more important than "reduced itch" or the fact that a compound is making your scalp feel great imo. So, I hope people focus on that.

 

[Ziggyz123]

Agree swoop that photos would help, but we are all getting ahead of our selves right now. It's to soon for a photo assesment because even those with success from RU/finasteride/dutasteride don't usually see it until 6months-1year

 

[Dench57]

We want the PGD2 angle to maintain hair right? We don't want it to be a sub-par treatment that "relieves itch" or "makes your scalp feel great" while your hair follicles are still (slowly) getting destroyed.

Maybe that's just a personal positive for me then. Taking Finasteride made my scalp blow up with Androgenetic Alopecia inflammation and the areas where the itching/burning is worst, there is rapid miniaturisation. So for me there is a direct correlation between that very distinctive itch and scalp discomfort, and hairloss - I think that's the case for most people from what I read on the forums. So anything that relieves that would not be a subpar treatment for me and is a positive early indicator.

Because of that anecdotes like reduced itch is not enough to evaluate a treatment and say that it helps. Photo evaluation longer term or strong anecdotes would be far more helpful. RU58841 for example over the years has only become bigger. Why? Well obviously because it's a potent AR antagonist and thus functions upstream in the chain. But mainly because we saw pictures from people who got better quality of hair from it, we saw legit well respected members vouch for it, we saw people DROPPING their finasteride/dutasteride for it and still maintaining on RU, we even saw people do better on it than finasteride. Vica versa obviously too. Some people do better on finasteride/dutasteride, but that doesn't matter right now.

You get the point. It's either important in the chain of androgenetic alopecia (works upstream?) or it's not. Evaluation of hair stability/hair improvement is thus far more important than "reduced itch" or the fact that a compound is making your scalp feel great imo. So, I hope people focus on that.

Of course it's not enough to fully evaluate a treatment, but what else do you expect at such an early stage in treatment? People sprouting hair all over their NW0? What other criteria can we assess at this stage? The people I've spoken to on Seti have reported reduced shedding and reduced inflammation, I can only take that to be a positive sign. You're asking for photo evaluation from a maintenance drug that's only been used by a very small minority for about 2 months. Were the first RU users posting cosmetically significant progress pics in that timespan? I don't think so. You're asking for strong anecdotes, from whom exactly? Hellouser will be posting his progress soon. I'm not sure what else you want in such a short time span from a treatment that at best will keep what you have/slow the loss.

Have a little patience. The early signs are positive, not non-existent, nor earth-shattering. It will take many more months and many more users before we know if this really will be effective.

 

[Swoop]

@ZiggyZ123 I agree.

Maybe that's just a personal positive for me then. Taking Finasteride made my scalp blow up with Androgenetic Alopecia inflammation and the areas where the itching/burning is worst, there is rapid miniaturisation. So for me there is a direct correlation between that very distinctive itch and scalp discomfort, and hairloss - I think that's the case for most people from what I read on the forums. So anything that relieves that would not be a subpar treatment for me and is a positive early indicator.



Of course it's not enough to fully evaluate a treatment, but what else do you expect at such an early stage in treatment? People sprouting hair all over their NW0? What other criteria can we assess at this stage? The people I've spoken to on Seti have reported reduced shedding and reduced inflammation, I can only take that to be a positive sign. You're asking for photo evaluation from a maintenance drug that's only been used by a very small minority for about 2 months. Were the first RU users posting cosmetically significant progress pics in that timespan? I don't think so. You're asking for strong anecdotes, from whom exactly? Hellouser will be posting his progress soon. I'm not sure what else you want in such a short time span from a treatment that at best will keep what you have/slow the loss.

Have a little patience. The early signs are positive, not non-existent, nor earth-shattering. It will take many more months and many more users before we know if this really will be effective.

I don't expect that. I do agree that it takes time and I am patient. What I was pointing too is that anecdotal experience like better scalp feeling, reduced itch etc. don't have to be indicative of anything. Compounds either work good or they don't. So let's focus on that. OC459 made many people their scalp feel good too. Yet nobody really seemed to keep up with it in terms of maintenance outside a single guy or something. It didn't evolve like a treatment as RU did for example. Why did this happen with OC459? I mean the compound had positive signs too in the beginning of reduced shedding and reduced inflammation, yet it didn't turn out to be that good it seems?

So let's not go over our heads by getting hyped about a "scalp feeling" but take a rational approach to testing in terms of hair quality/maintenance. I know this will take time, but it's important. Else you'll be just wandering in circles and trust me this has happened often enough lol.

 

[bestglycol]

wow, Nice News!! I think it’s a good news. But I can't wait.

 

[abcdefg]

The hardest thing is just the waiting. Lots of stuff on the way but its really hard to talk in terms of years for something you see every single day. Also the cost on all this stuff is going to be pretty crazy anyway. Maybe I should just start and stick on propecia while the new stuff is expensive and experimental.

 

[kmm179]

I am not sure if the reduced itch means my scalp is doing better or has any effect on hair loss. My current treatment has stopped the itch and irritation. The mental relief is enough to keep doing what I am doing. Is the percent really as low as 2-5%? I feel like I see tons of posts about MBP itch. Have no idea the user/sample size though.

 

[whatevr]

The hardest thing is just the waiting. Lots of stuff on the way but its really hard to talk in terms of years for something you see every single day. Also the cost on all this stuff is going to be pretty crazy anyway. Maybe I should just start and stick on propecia while the new stuff is expensive and experimental.

You've been here for 10 years and you're not on propecia? Say what? How long have you been losing hair? Must be at a snail's pace.

 

[marco75]

The hardest thing is just the waiting. Lots of stuff on the way but its really hard to talk in terms of years for something you see every single day. Also the cost on all this stuff is going to be pretty crazy anyway. Maybe I should just start and stick on propecia while the new stuff is expensive and experimental.

Use the big three they work for most people.

 

[thatguywelbz]

As far as I know they will go directly to IIA trials to see if it's effective. Reason being that it has already been tested for safety and it safety profile is great.

 

[whatevr]

I don't know why people like this hang around here... I wonder what their purpose is? :/

What's your beef Ronaldo?

I'm asking him perfectly valid questions. Most people here have trouble stopping their hair loss with all the treatments available. If I left my hair loss untreated for 10 years I'd be long bald. So how can one have hair loss for 10 years and not bother treating it, while at the same time posting on a hair loss forum?

 

[Dench57]

What's your beef Ronaldo?

I'm asking him perfectly valid questions. Most people here have trouble stopping their hair loss with all the treatments available. If I left my hair loss untreated for 10 years I'd be long bald. So how can one have hair loss for 10 years and not bother treating it, while at the same time posting on a hair loss forum?

I think he was agreeing with you.

 

[whatevr]

I think he was agreeing with you.

LOL. It didn't really occur to me to be honest. I must've gotten up on the wrong foot this morning or something, I'm not usually this confrontational.

If that's the case, sorry Flippant .

 

[I.D WALKER]

LOL To be fair, with a self-deprecatory name like Flippant one can never really know.
Only teasing guys.

 

[CarlJohanson]

I hate to ask... But how long will FDA approval take? I understand they only need to test its effectiveness, or something?..