Large Picture of RU58841 REGROWTH in Stumptailed Macaque

[michael barry]

The "b" picture in the study is large and more easily comparable than versions Ive seen before which are ordinarily kinda small. RU58841 is an androgen receptor inhibitor. The hair pictures are down towards the end of the study, so you will have to scroll down.


http://endo.endojournals.org/cgi/reprint/138/1/356.pdf

 

[KielMcK]

That is quite an improvement within 4 months. When is this gonna be legit and on the market

 

[SoThatsLife]

How powerful is Faith Eagels RU58841?

It would be nice to use the RU but it seems like you have to keep your hair short..would be fantastic if they found a way to putt in a shampoo that you just had to leave on your head for 10minutes.

Anyone hear about the progress of that pharmaceutical company that was testing RU?

 

[Old Baldy]

That is quite an improvement within 4 months. When is this gonna be legit and on the market

I don't know Kiel or So. This is one of the greatest mysteries in hairloss remedy history! :dunno:

 

[Armando Jose]

I am guessing that there is not complot in this case; I think that there was not the expected result,
This investigation was hailed in 1995, in the first event of Intercontinental Meeting of hair research societies. It is possible that only was a bet, even when they used RU58841description of an androgen receptor BLOCKER similar as others.
OTOH, we are not stumptailed macaque, and they used only 16 innocent simians. It was only one test in macaques or more? It was realized any test in humans?

BTW, it is possible than the patent rest in a closed box.

Armando

This work was partly supported by NIH Grants RR-00167 and
CA-68568 as well as Roussel Uclaf Company. Part of these results were
presented in preliminary forms at the proceedings of the First Tricontinental
Meeting of Hair Research Societies, Brussels Belgium, 8–10
October, 1995 (Uno H, Obana N, Cappas A, Bonfils A, Battmann T,
Philibert D).

 

[michael barry]

RU's parent company, Rousseau, went out of business and sold out its stuff before it went through FDA trials. Nobody picked up the research and was willing to fund FDA trials with RU58841. It still would have to be put in FDA phase three trials (the expensive one) to pass with the general public.


Bryan has mentioned that RU58841 was "somewhat better than finasteride" in human trials. So the two together, one an alpha five inhibitor and one a androgen-receptor blocker, would work in different anti-androgenic ways, likely giving castrate-type effects to the scalp (or even better). The thing is, how many men would have been willing to pay for both? Propecia bought at the drug store with a prescript is still 60 bucks a month, RU would have likely cost at least that much as it would have to have come in a vial or pump-sprayer or dropper. How many men are going to spend $120 or so a month on their hair? Probably not that many. Alot would have probably been interested in using RU alone, and if it was as good as .5mgs of dutasteride with no side effects (probably about how good it is), there would be users who wont use finasteride, but is that enough to recoup the massive tens of millions for phase three, and tens of millions for marketing it?


I kinda dont know. Propecia isn't one of the top ten drugs. Minoxidil really wasn't a moneymaker for Upjohn. Pharmaceuticals probably aren't willing to go to phase three unless they feel they have something that will regrow quite a bit of hair, but therein lies the problem. Hardly anything is going to get you back a bunch of hair in the front. These days, with so many men just buzzing their heads anyway, and with Hair Multiplication on the horizon, etc, I suppose all of them passed on its development. Its a shame, but thats probably about the truth.

 

[SoThatsLife]

Wasnt there some new company researching RU, I remember some post about it for some months ago..but it could be the company from france that went out of biz.

Merck "only" makes 300$ million off Propecia a year..and if the price is around 50$ at sales cost, thats about 450-500 000 users..that means they "lose" alot of money because people buy generic or the 5mg finasteride..I dont know how much the profit is on Rogaine, but prob much the same.

I think RU is much like finasteride/minoxidil..its already devoloped, so they just have to "perfect" the dose and find the best way to apply the product..I dont know how much it would cost to research that, but prob 10-20$ million dollars.

The big thing about RU is that it isnt already on marked like Proscar was to Propecia, that means its not easy to buy the cheaper version..you could buy RU from china now or faith eagle, but I hardly see anyone do that now, so I dont think they gonna start if a RU product is released..that would mean a company could make several 100 millions in the time before HM(that prob wouldnt be on the marked for atleast 5-10 years) or the patent runs out

I have read that Pzifer is developing a new topical, so I dont think the big companies have giving up on hairloss yet..they just dont want to show their secrets..even Proctor says that..

Mr. Barry, do you know who has the patent on RU? It would be interesting to see who owns the patent now

From a personal view, I actually dont think that RU ever will come on the marked since it has existed for so many years and its still not out as a over the counter drug..But from an economical view it would be higly likely to earn millions for the company that develop it for the over the counter marked..I think it will come some "new" hair loss products in the following years, but its prob just new mixes of minoxidil that works a little better than now..but no one actually know whats in devolop so impossible to say 100% that nothing new will come, we can only hope..

The marked for hair loss products is quite interesting..its so many products that have NO proven effect that sells for millions every year..it feeds on peoples desperation..in my country its one products that have no scientific studies that sells for 10million $ a year, and its basiclly a regualar vitamin pill with saw palmeto..It would be quite interesting to write my masters on the marked for hair loss products

Sorry about the bad grammar and bad english..but I was in a hurry Mr. Barry, just wanna say thanks for your effort on this forum..you have many useful posts

 

[michael barry]

Sothatslife,

Thanks for the kind words.

I did a little google search on RU58841 and patent and got nothing. I think it would sell personally because alot of men are afraid of side effects, but would spray something on their head in the morning if the FDA had tested it and it worked and they had confidence in it.

Im aware of "FaithEagle" in China, but have no idea of how trustworthy, etc. that it is.



I did find another trial of RU58841 online that suggests that it is indeed efficious and would work:


"Huei-Ju Pan1, 2, George Wilding2, Hideo Uno2, Shigeki Inui1, Lowell Goldsmith1, Edward Messing1 and Chawnshang Chang1, 2

(1) George Whipple Laboratory for Cancer Research, Departments of Pathology, Urology, Dermatology and Radiation Oncology, University of Rochester Medical Center, Rochester, NY
(2) University of Wisconsin Comprehensive Cancer Center and Regional Primate Research Center, Madison, WI

Received: 2 February 1998 Revised: 21 April 1998 Accepted: 21 April 1998

Abstract The effect of androgen receptor transcriptional activation by RU58841, a nonsteroidal anti-androgen, was studied in the human prostate cancer PC3 cell line by cotransfection with wild-type androgen receptor (wt AR) and an androgen-responsive reporter (MMTV-ARE-CAT) construct. Anti-androgens, hydroxyflutamide, and Casodex, and the antiestrogen, genistein, were studied in parallel for comparison with RU58841. The wt AR was activated only by the androgen dihydrotestosterone (DHT). Neither the anti-androgens nor antiestrogen can enhance AR transcriptional activity at 10?11-10?7 M in PC3 cells. Hydroxyflutamide, RU58841, and Casodex, but not genistein, displayed competitively suppressive effects on DHT activation of wt AR. The potency of RU58841 was comparable to that of hydroxyflutamide. From this result, topical application of RU58841, which is considered to be a potential therapy for skin diseases, may induce systemic side effects. However, RU58841, on topical application, revealed a potent increase in density, thickening, and length of hair in the macaque model of androgenetic alopecia, whereas no systemic effects were detected. Together our results suggest that RU58841 may have potent antagonism to the wt AR and could be considered as a topically applied active anti-androgen for the treatment of androgen-dependent skin disorders, such as acne, androgenetic alopecia, and hirsutism.
Key Words Hydroxyflutamide - Casodex - alopecia - prostate "




Sucks doesn't it? Wish it were available. Id get it. Bryan would probably know alot more about it than me. I just remember Rousseau folding and no other company picking it up. Bummer.




BTW- You mentioned other companies coming up with variations of minoxidil. We have one in the USA now called "ScalpMed" that is running infomercials. Basically their product is Beta-sitsoterol, Biotin, and minoxidil 5%. One can drain a beta sis tablet into their shampoo (while in their hand), mix it up..............and probably get a benefit. Beta sis is almost insoluble in about anything. It just doesn't mix well unless one uses very small amounts. Im attempting to test the stuff on my chin now (about three months from now I'll be able to say something yea or nay about it). It might be mixable in a cream (cetaphil or something similar), but its "oily"----so thats problematic. Im hoping rose hips or arnica or clove can be a non-greasy, non-anti-angiogenic, effective topical anti-androgen.

 

[SoThatsLife]

I googled Rousseau and found something about RU on another forum, and it made me remember the thing I read about RU some months ago..It was bought buy a wig company that was afraid that RU could ruin their wigmarked..but that actually sounds to funny to be true..But if its true, they may dont wanna sell the patent cheap, because they wanna protect their interest..but thats kinda dumb since young people and people that have a chance with RU arnt the most likely wig users, so the effect on the wig marked would prob not be the biggest.

But if the patent price is super high that could be the reason why Dr. Proctor, Dr. Lee and others that invent/produce hair loss products havnt explored RU..Big pharmfirms on the other hand would have the cash to buy the patent, but if the patent sells for 10-100mill $ the risk would prob to big..Would be funny if anyone called Pzifer or Merck and asked why they dont sesearch it, just to get the answer so all discussions could be ended.

The best/easiest thing was if they could make RU in some kind of shampoo form that could be used multipal times a week...I started with minoxidil about a month ago, and I think its a real pain to apply twince aday..not the actuall applying, but the constant repetition every day ..the Propecia is so easy..hope atleast future topicals can give more time between each applying.

On the other forum they said RU was real smelly..so that could be one reason that they ended research..but after what I read about topicals and hairloss-remedies in the past, people would put about everything on their scalp to keep hair..from urin to fish

I think CCS have ordered from Faith Eagle, you could ask him about how effective it was..but I have read about some that uses it..and never really seen any forum results or alot of people ordering it..

Why no one produce RU for commercial markets seems like one of the big mysteries with hair loss..I guess someone already blames the goverment and other agentcies, and call it the big baldy conspiracy :freak:

About Arnika..I used it when I injured my hand..didnt really know if it did any good, but it made my skin super soft and actually made some of my scars softer..the consistency of the balm I used was kinda oily, so I think it would be quite nasty to put on the head..but maybe it could be mixed more watery.,but why arnika, does it have any regrowth effect?

Edit: Started reading on what you and other people write about licorice extract and other natural stuff for regrowth..Do you have any hints for stuff I could put in my shampoo that could help regrowth? And where to order it from.
And have you read anything about ginger or blueberry, I have read both good and bad about ginger, so have left the nice Body Shop Ginger shampoo out of my regime at the moment

 

[michael barry]

http://sciencelinks.jp/j-east/article/2 ... 230063.php



Activity of herbal extracts on the control of sebum secretion.Accession number;04A0230063
Title;Activity of herbal extracts on the control of sebum secretion.
Author;UCHIUMI YOICHIRO(Maruzen Pharm. Co., Ltd., JPN) YAMAMOTO SUSUMU(Maruzen Pharm. Co., Ltd., JPN) MIZUTANI KENJI(Maruzen Pharm. Co., Ltd., JPN)
Journal Title;Fragr J

Journal Code:G0987B

ISSN:0288-9803

VOL.32;NO.3;PAGE.53-57(2004)
Figure&Table&Reference;TBL.4, REF.13
Pub. Country;Japan
Language;Japanese
Abstract;Potential activity of herbal extracts on sebum secretion was studied. Among the herbal extracts tested, polyol-soluble licorice extract P-U (product name) derived from Glycyrrhiza inflata showed the most potent testosterone 5 .ALPHA.-reductase inhibition, androgen receptor binding inhibition and antimicrobial activities, which are closely related to sebum secretion. In addition to the findings on polyol-soluble licorice extract P-U, clove extract and peppermint extract showed testosterone 5 .ALPHA.-reductase inhibition, arnica extract and rose fruit extract showed androgen receptor binding inhibition, alpinia speciosa root extract and scutellaria root extract showed estrogen receptor agonists, and sophora root extract showed antimicrobial activity. (author abst.)




Arnica was mentioned as a receptor "binding inhibition".


I dont know about blueberries other than they are a strong anti-oxidant and have anthocyandins. Dont know what they might do for hair.

 

[Hammy070]

RU58841 is now in the hands of ProStrakan, described as a "topical anti-androgen" on their website and is apparently in Phase 2 Trials.

http://www.prostrakan.com/randd.html

 

[Bryan]

But if the patent price is super high that could be the reason why Dr. Proctor, Dr. Lee and others that invent/produce hair loss products havnt explored RU..

I'm sure patent issues are a big part of it, but there's also the HUGE issue that there's very little human experience with the drug. Drs. Proctor and Lee aren't going to take a chance on using an exotic drug which hasn't been thoroughly tested in humans.

Big pharmfirms on the other hand would have the cash to buy the patent, but if the patent sells for 10-100mill $ the risk would prob to big..Would be funny if anyone called Pzifer or Merck and asked why they dont sesearch it, just to get the answer so all discussions could be ended.

And don't forget the hundreds of millions of $$$ to get the stuff FDA-approved! With Rogaine and Propecia being considered flops in the pharmaceutical industry, nobody's going to spend a fortune just to develop a messy topical which is going to have roughly the same level of effectiveness as Propecia.

Why no one produce RU for commercial markets seems like one of the big mysteries with hair loss..I guess someone already blames the goverment and other agentcies, and call it the big baldy conspiracy :freak:

It doesn't surprise me at all, not the least little bit, that the pharmaceutical industry isn't interested in RU58841.

 

[newguy23]

i dont believe that the pharmaceutical industry isn't interested in finding more hair loss treatments because there is huge money there. one of my business professors use to work for proctor and gamble in their marketing department and he said that proctor and gamble spends millions and millions of dollars every year trying to find something that will regrow hair because market demand and profit potential is huge. he said they still continue put huge money in the r&d of finding something that grows hair but they havent found anything yet, hopefully they pick something up soon though. but the fact is that companies are spending big money tryin to find somethin that works they want it just as much as we do because it means cash in their pocket. its one of the biggest markets out there that hasnt even begun to be tapped into

 

[SoThatsLife]

Why isnt RU tested on humans? I tought many people was using Telogen Effluvium Faith Eagle version, people like CCS on this forum.
Hope ProStrakan get in their Phase3 soon, so we could see some pics of humans that uses RU

But it is prob to late for me to get an effect of it anyway..it would just mean I could drop Propecia for some months if I shave my head and use RU, but still have to use the dreaded minoxidil twice a day

If a FDA test cost hundreds of millions of dollars I begin understand why people say money talks in US

Newguy, interessting thing you say..I think to that Pharm. companies uses serveral 100 millions on hairloss research..Pzifer is devoloping some new topicals and pzifer or merck is devoloping some new pills..but for a new product to make som real money now, it has to work better that Propecia or minoxidil..A similar product would just get a small part of the marked, and then marketing and all wouldnt be worth it.

 

[hairsucks]

RU58841 is now in the hands of ProStrakan, described as a "topical anti-androgen" on their website and is apparently in Phase 2 Trials.

http://www.prostrakan.com/randd.html

How do you know this is RU58841 ?

 

[SoThatsLife]

Hope linking is allowed:
[url="http://www.hairsite4.com/dc/...w.hairsite4.com/dc/dcboard.php ... ll&page=28

http://www.hairsite4.com/dc/dcboard.php ... c_id=32201

http://www.hairsite4.com/dc/dcboard.php ... 1881#21939[/url]

"90 participants received RU for 6 months and got the same results as with a one year treatment of oral theraphy (read Propecia). Also important:no systemic anti-androgenic effect was observed"

"The product has been in the license 'state' for the last 1.5 yrs or so - so things do not seem to move so quickly. But yet another indication of why we should all use RU as either an alternative to an oral treatment or as a supplement to counter for other hormones than only DHT."

I see that Mr. Bryan was active in the discussion on hairsite4, so I guess you are a little tired of us newbies who think we discovered the new miracle product. When the product have been their for many years with no new develop.

But do you know if those guys on the forum still uses it and how the effect is? And it seems like RU has a real odor, that could be one of the things why RU isn't a big thing. Not so cool to have great hair when you smell like a fisherman all day

The reason that I remembered that I had read about that firm before, was that all the Board Members had good hair..quite funny

 

[Armando Jose]

The reason that I remembered that I had read about that firm before, was that all the Board Members had good hair..quite funny

Really??

Armando

 

[bobs]

Yes that is true,

I made a note on that in an earlier post. All the guys (they are all guys) in that board have great hair and they all seem to be 40-50+.
That would be funny wouldn't it? That they got this thing going for themselves and refused to launch it. But it wouldnt make sense. If it is working then they would probably want to launch it. But it does tickle the imagination.

Check it out;
http://www.prostrakan.com/mainboard.html

And also note; I sent them an email a couple of months back wondering how it was going. No reply.

I don't agree with Bryan about the logic of not launching this product. It is true that it costs a fortune to get it through trials (note that it is already in phase 2 and if I am not wrong it is in phase2b) but a product with no side-effects and an efficiency slightly better than oral-finasteride is not something to ignore.

Many people refuse finasteride because of the side-effects. Specially young men becoming sexually active.
Even if HM comes out by 2010-2012 it will be mainly for people who have lost a deal and it will cost. People who are just
loosing their hair wont get HM, there is no point in getting it if you know you will keep on loosing more the coming years.
It is true that you could get it again and again and again but well, who wants to spend all that money on it if there are other products out there that work?
In fact, I think that when HM or some other cure comes out the whole trauma of loosing your hair will ease considerably. Being bald by choice will maybe become some form of a status.
You will probably either want to wait until you are NW3+ or get something else. If you can apply RU and keep what you have when you are just starting to thin it will be worth it.

I just think the story of RU is like a tragedy, a promising young product that got in the wrong hands. Like very clever people who walk the wrong path if you will.

However, we do have another 'young' product racing for the market (NEOSH101). Ph2b & Ph2c trials are underway and we should expect results beginning of 2008.
After those two trials we should get a complete picture of the efficiency and the ph2a trials showed some promise. We can just wait and see.

 

[dave25]

Guys, I would just like to point our to you that RU 58841 has been selling for quite a number of years in Japan.....as a ready to use 2-3%solution if I remember well... and it is 100% legitimate RU and you can still purchase it on a regular basis as you would buy any other hair loss product... of course it is way more expensive than the one made by faith eagle (China) but why bother buying something in its raw form from China (and later end up making a mess mixing it up on your own ) when you can get it more easily in Japan?
For those of you who are interested , the RU sold in japan is made by a pharmaceutical lab in Estonia ; disappointing as it may be, they use an alcohol base instead of a liposomal base which proved to be much more effective in trials ( RUM myristate)

 

[dave25]

As to Prostrakan releasing RU any time soon , I am rather skeptical since they have a lot of financial problems to cope with at the moment and RU is not at all their priority......
too bad since RU ( in its liposomal form) does wonders since it stops male pattern baldness dead in its track like no other product (according to a study conducted in Germany in 2005) and would no doubt replace Propecia as the treatment of choice for male pattern baldness sufferers of course without all the sides of the latter !!