Liver toxicity leads to male pattern baldness?

[Hoppi]

Best potential model for a potential path to male pattern baldness that I've heard in a long time! I do not believe that there is only one underlying "path" to male pattern baldness (pretty much anything that plays with sex hormone levels, considerably increases inflammation, etc) but this one makes sense.

Poor digestive health / alcohol / environmental toxins, etc -> increased liver toxicity -> inability to remove sufficient DHT (and maybe free T) from blood stream -> systemic response to increased androgens, including male pattern balding.

Kudos to a friend of mine who I believe heard it from someone else

Opinions? ^_^

Hoppi!

 

[blaze]

When are you going to believe the actual scientific evidence we currently have on hand??

Sure, a really messed up liver would probably not bode well for your hair. But this would also be the same for many other areas of the body as well. You can have the best liver in the world, but if you have the genes for Androgenetic Alopecia you will lose your hair...period.

Besides I have seen many alcoholics and street bums who live off cask wine. And they have had some of the best hair I have ever seen. Extremely thick. Made me sad and angry that they dont even care yet have great hair.

Please Hoppi, you need to stop with these silly little theories. We may not be able to address Androgenetic Alopecia on a genetic level but we can address the next level, which is androgen stimulation which is NECESSARY for gene expression.

Are you even on a regimen yet?

 

[Bryan]

...inability to remove sufficient DHT (and maybe free T) from blood stream...

As I've explained to you in the past, you need to run away and hide from this silly idea that DHT in the bloodstream has much of an effect on balding. DHT isn't much of an endocrine hormone, it's mostly an autocrine or paracrine hormone. Do some Googling and find out what those terms mean!

 

[Hoppi]

It's a shame people never look at this stuff. Because if our actions couldn't make or break male pattern baldness, then howcome when I told one guy to stop drinking green tea his hair loss stopped (as far as I'm aware it's still fine) or the guys who stop masturbating, or any of that stuff. Let's say your follicles are sensitive to X amount of DHT stimulation, don't you think that steadily increasing levels of blood T and DHT (as in this "model") would cause a problem? Hell, it's almost similar to the path of taking steroids.

And I do know that DHT has less role as an endocrine hormone but does that really mean that steadily increasing, unchecked blood androgens wouldn't kill hair?

It would explain why people who drink a lot TEND to lose their hair (previously I had blamed estrogen, or the shakier hypotheses of carbs or gluten in beer). Ok they don't always, but I often hear of the correlation.

Again I'm not saying it's the only path to hair loss or that your genes don't dictate your level of sensitivity. I'm saying that if steroids and green tea can cause male pattern baldness... then hell this can too! O.O

 

[Chris87]

Hoppi pretty much every week it seems you think you've found some compelling new discovery as to why people experience male pattern baldness..either that or on several occasions you've claimed to have found the cure.

Even if this "theory" (that you heard from a friend who heard it from a friend :whistle: ) was correct....it would be a VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY rare occurrence that someone's liver is so fucked up and they're so sensitive to DHT that this actually played a significant role.

As far as the green tea thing...you expect anyone to believe that this is true when your evidence is "I told a guy to stop drinking green tea and his hair loss stopped..and is still fine...i think" Maybe he wasnt even experiencing male pattern baldness related hair loss to begin with and was just paranoid...maybe like many other natural cure people he THINKS his hair loss has gotten better due to stopping green tea but in reality it has not. I mean the likelihood that someoneo REALLY has genetic male pattern baldness and it just STOPS DEAD just by not drinking green tea is HIGHLY unlikely....but we'll never know because as with pretty much every single one of these whacky theories...there is no proof..there are no pictures

As far as the masturbating thing goes...again...theres absolutely no study on this..there are NO pictures to prove it...and EVERY SINGLE TIME i see someone hop into a thread and claim that this is helping them they never provide pictures and 2 weeks later you dont hear from them anymore..probably because they gave it up and it wasnt REALLY working.

If things like stopping green tea and halting masturbation REALLY work..where are the threads about peoples progress using these methods? Where? on ANY forum? Fine me ONE masturbation thread on this forum that provides baseline pics and updated pics of results using only this technique.

If people claimed finasteride worked, but never posted any pictures or journals tracking their progress...no one would believe in finasteride either...but the fact is..there are tons of threads tracking people's progress on finasteride and minoxidil with OBVIOUS results over the long term. Explain to me why there are threads like this for finasteride and minoxidil but no threads like this for say..masturbation or urine therapy. We have enough people selling snake oil out there..stop selling it to yourself

 

[blaze]

if your liver is that messed up your hair will be the last thing on your mind.

green tea is not bad for hair. I drink it as do many other people. People who ARE NOT LOSING hair.

 

[Hoppi]

The funny thing is MOST guys on here seem to agree that steroid use can be a cause of male pattern baldness (they increase androgens). If you could just work your way on logically from that that would be fantastic...

 

[mpbsux20]

Yes I believe steroid use can make the whole process occur more rapidly.I dont believe though they can cause male pattern baldness.I have seen a lot of guys juicing regularly[20 years+] who still manage to have a normal head of hair that a lot of 20 year olds here would envy.

Normally this is what happens....Lets say a guy starts juicing at 25 and begins to notice hairloss[male pattern baldness] in a year or two.He begins to believe steroids are responsible for this.If he hadn't done that,he might have noticed the same in his late thirties or forties.The thing is it only affects guys who are susceptible to baldness at some point in their lives.

 

[Hoppi]

Well to be fair I think MOST guys have the gene(s) inside them - doesn't mean it's not prudent to address things that will increase androgen or inflammation (or possibly fungal or sebum) levels though, right?

 

[sandyc]

I can think of lots of alcoholics with great heads of hair.

Look at bands like the Rolling Stones, Ryan Adams, Aerosmith, Eddie Van Halen, I'm sure I read that Johnny Depp drinks a bottle of red wine every day.

 

[Hoppi]

I can think of lots of alcoholics with great heads of hair.

Look at bands like the Rolling Stones, Ryan Adams, Aerosmith, Eddie Van Halen, I'm sure I read that Johnny Depp drinks a bottle of red wine every day.

As I understand it (Johnny Depp probably excluded) they mostly wear wigs. I could be wrong, but that's what I gathered.

 

[Bryan]

And I do know that DHT has less role as an endocrine hormone...

So why did you mention DHT in the bloodstream at all?

...but does that really mean that steadily increasing, unchecked blood androgens wouldn't kill hair?

What exactly do you mean by "steadily increasing, unchecked blood levels of androgens"? Are you talking about HUGE, supraphysiological levels of DHT given to pseudohermaphrodites on a purely experimental basis by well-meaning doctors and scientists to find out what happens to them under such conditions, or are you talking about tiny, trace fluctuations in blood levels of DHT in men caused by dietary changes?

 

[Hoppi]

I'm not really talking about diet changes at the moment, I'm talking about digestive system and liver health as being a possible cause of elevated androgens. Surely you agree that an unhealthy liver WOULD filter fewer androgens from the blood? A pubmed study I read confirmed the elevation in hormone levels caused by an unhealthy liver.

 

[Bryan]

Okay, but what's your point? What does any of that have to do with the average guy on the street who has male pattern baldness?

 

[Hoppi]

Okay, but what's your point? What does any of that have to do with the average guy on the street who has male pattern baldness?

If steroid use can cause a man to lose hair, then elevated androgens through other means can surely do it also. Right? And if they're not LEAVING the blood readily enough (again, all this is backed up in probably all accepted medical literature but certainly in that pubmed study) the hormone(s) in question will increase. This is correct isn't it?

 

[Bryan]

If steroid use can cause a man to lose hair, then elevated androgens through other means can surely do it also. Right? And if they're not LEAVING the blood readily enough (again, all this is backed up in probably all accepted medical literature but certainly in that pubmed study) the hormone(s) in question will increase. This is correct isn't it?

I think the level of steroid hormones that some people inflict on themselves for the purpose of building their bodies is a FAR cry from the level of extra androgens that men cause by eating this or that specific food. The same probably goes for men who happen to have liver or other problems which cause the elimination of a little less androgen. As usual, I think you're making waaaay too big a deal of all this!

 

[Hoppi]

If steroid use can cause a man to lose hair, then elevated androgens through other means can surely do it also. Right? And if they're not LEAVING the blood readily enough (again, all this is backed up in probably all accepted medical literature but certainly in that pubmed study) the hormone(s) in question will increase. This is correct isn't it?

I think the level of steroid hormones that some people inflict on themselves for the purpose of building their bodies is a FAR cry from the level of extra androgens that men cause by eating this or that specific food. The same probably goes for men who happen to have liver or other problems which cause the elimination of a little less androgen. As usual, I think you're making waaaay too big a deal of all this!

well, I think this is the point where studies and actual applications of a theory are needed to prove or disprove it

I'll be doing cleanses and trying to fix my digestive system top to bottom, and I'll see if that does the trick!

 

[Hoppi]

Be sure to stay away from the eggs, Hoppi.

well, considering mayonnaise renders me unable to move for about 2 hours because my stomach is cramping so bad I wouldn't worry about me having any.

 

[Hoppi]

Just an extra note and also maybe it will raise the tone after my last post! (I am genuinely a bit sensitive about the egg thing as I know I say a lot of things but that was genuinely very painful, repetitive and out of the blue )

I've got a good feeling about the jogging and things I'm doing! I can really feel the blood in my liver area which may explain why my friend (who claims success!) put so much focus on jogging and exercise! I'm also cutting down on chemicals, cleaning up my digestive system and trying to get hold of totally pure water! Come on liver - cleanse me! xD


EDIT -- I also just realized a healthy liver will also I would imagine be capable of producing more..... Sex Hormone Binding Globulin! AND guess what hurts/puts strain on the liver? Alcohol, stress and insulin. Guess what they're also bad for? MALE PATTERN BALDNESS!

Hell, if this isn't true you've got to admit it's a wicked theory! O.O

 

[Chris87]

I can really feel the blood in my liver area which may explain why my friend (who claims success!) put so much focus on jogging and exercise!

now he can FEEL blood in his liver area..... :uglylol:

im all for jogging and exercise...but ok...so...jogging and exercise is good for your liver..which will help remove probably pretty small levels of androgens from your system....but then some people logically argue that exercise/muscular activity increases your level of testosterone...therefor increasing your level of DHT..therefor speeding up your hair loss.....

also..some more pseudo logic for you.....if having a really healthy liver REALLY helps remove THAT much DHT from your system..wouldnt really healthy people with highly efficient livers experience some of the sides that people on propecia experience from the lowered DHT level

so...whos pseudo science is right here?
:whistle: