Liver toxicity leads to male pattern baldness?

[Bryan]

EDIT -- I also just realized a healthy liver will also I would imagine be capable of producing more..... Sex Hormone Binding Globulin!

Another thing I've mentioned to you and your pal misterE (without ever getting any response) is the issue of what would really happen if you were somehow able to artificially increase (or decrease, for that matter) levels of SHBG. What do YOU think would happen if you were to start injecting significant quantities of SHBG on a regular basis into your bloodstream? I'll tell you what would happen: your body would sense a decline in androgenic stimulation, and would immediately start synthesizing more testosterone, in an effort to restore the proper level of androgenic stimulation! You forget (or don't know about) so many things like that, whenever you get on these kicks of yours.

 

[Hoppi]

EDIT -- I also just realized a healthy liver will also I would imagine be capable of producing more..... Sex Hormone Binding Globulin!

Another thing I've mentioned to you and your pal misterE (without ever getting any response) is the issue of what would really happen if you were somehow able to artificially increase (or decrease, for that matter) levels of SHBG. What do YOU think would happen if you were to start injecting significant quantities of SHBG on a regular basis into your bloodstream? I'll tell you what would happen: your body would sense a decline in androgenic stimulation, and would immediately start synthesizing more testosterone, in an effort to restore the proper level of androgenic stimulation! You forget (or don't know about) so many things like that, whenever you get on these kicks of yours.

But that suggests that the human body never has hormonal imbalances, which we know is far, far, far from the case.

 

[Bryan]

But that suggests that the human body never has hormonal imbalances, which we know is far, far, far from the case.

No, it does NOT suggest any such thing. You don't seem to be aware that there are many feedback loops in the body which can have an effect on various things, one of which is androgenic stimulation. Haven't you ever heard about how guys using large amounts of steroid hormones for bodybuilding can start to experience testicular atrophy because their bodies are shutting down the amount of their own testosterone they're synthesizing during that period? It's the feedback loop in the brain which is causing that reduced production of testosterone!

Conversely, haven't you ever heard about how the systemic administration of antiandrogens like flutamide and casodex (like for prostate cancer) can cause the body to start making MORE testosterone as a reaction to the antiandrogens? It's the feedback loop in the brain which is causing that INCREASED production of testosterone!

So I think it's pretty naive for you to suggest that simply by making your liver healthier, it _may_ start making more SHBG, which (in turn) would supposedly start reducing the amount of androgenic stimulation in your body, which (in turn) would help your scalp hair grow better. It might do that or it might not, depending on all the subtleties of your body's reaction to the increased levels of SHBG. You need to start taking these more subtle considerations into account. Our bodies are more complex than you give them credit for.

 

[Hoppi]

It's not all about SHBG though that's just something I thought of afterwards, it's mostly about toxins and that the liver may become overworked and lazier with age, which could be a driving force behind male pattern baldness. Who knows, but hell it pretty much explains everything we see around us with regards to who gets it and who doesn't, and to what extent. It also explains why my hair and my friend's went to junk when our digestive systems went to junk. As I say though, I think the trick is to put it into practice!

Edit -- hmm, I might do just like Justin did and take some time and some space to explore this by myself for a bit I'll take a bit of a break from the forum for now (I can hear a sigh of relief from some! lol) and just take my time and see how this pans out. I'll probably be back at some point to let people know how I did! Bye for the moment HairLossTalk.com!

 

[Hoppi]

hm! (and ok maybe I'm not totally gone lol) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04scj2KyYDg

 

[Hoppi]

I really wanted to save this thread as I honestly think there is really something here (as indicated by my regimen text!). Also, I've decided I want to keep posting anyway and not totally disappear! lol

Thing is about the liver, you have to just remember HOW much sense it makes. The liver is THE chief organ for the removal of old hormones from the blood. It is the producer of SHBG also, and is closely tied to our digestive health and overall health. Anytime our digestive system shows strain, we get stressed, we eat junk food - fats, sugar, alcohol, we get parasites, leaky gut, bad bacteria, ANYTHING the liver FEELS it. It truly is up there with the brain and the heart in terms of a kind of central "hub" organ. If your liver function drops YOU WILL have hormonal imbalances. YOU WILL. And what does age-based male pattern baldness feel like to you? Does it feel like some mystical force that can't be controlled? Or does it feel a little too coincidental that all the guys down the pub are bald while mr mature family man who plays squash twice a week still has hair? THINK about it!! Do you really think it had to be something as unnecessarily complex as upregulated androgen receptors or a sudden epigenetic change at a random age? NO! IT'S YOUR LIVER! rofl

I mean ok I'm not saying I'm SURE sure, and I'm not saying that guys who bald in their late teens have liver problems necessarily - all our follicles have their own like "androgen thresholds", and I think that some people's are simply just less than even their BASELINE levels of androgens. So, in my case, if I had never hurt my liver I think I would be fine, BUT had I been unfortunate enough to inherit worse genes, I may have started losing it at 18/19 regardless, as that is when my androgen levels reached a mature stage.

ADDITIONALLY in my case, my hair loss IMMEDIATELY followed the biggest and only real drop in digestive health IN MY LIFE. I now can no longer eat mayonnaise/lightly cooked eggs because I have terrible abdominal cramping, and other fats can cause problems too. Sound minimal and not too scary? Yes, it IS minimal, but guess what organ is chiefly associated with breaking down fats and SPECIFICALLY egg? THE LIVER!!!!! Guys it's ALL the damn liver, and this is something we just NEED to discuss further.

What else explains why people who eat carbs and junk seem to lose more hair? Alcoholics (for the most part, particularly beer), stressed people, diabetics, and I'll bet my LIFE, my LAST POUND/DOLLAR that people with "IBS" (bull$*** term of the century) lose their hair more - MEN AND WOMEN ALIKE. Ever noticed how fairly often very unhealthy women ALSO seem to have a more swept back hairline? It's because although they have far LESS androgens and their odds of being genetically susceptible are about a third (the maths is complex and not really relevant to my point but I'm sure we could work it out! Basically it's recessive so we can get it on the Y chromosome and be affected I believe - I really wouldn't be too shocked if it only IS one gene) they still experience symptoms of reduced liver regulation of the androgens they DO have.

Anyway, I should go. But please do think about this. Doesn't it make a scary amount of sense when you look at the world around you? And more importantly.. IMAGINE IF IT'S RIGHT! The implications would be amazing

Peace out guys!

Hoppi

 

[blaze]

your wasting your time hoppi.

I know people who are very healthy...health freaks if you like. Balding or bald.

I know people who abuse steroids with full heads of hair. One even destroyed lots of his liver through steroids and had crazy yellow simpsons skin.

A healthy liver is better than a diseased one. But it aint gonna stop Androgenetic Alopecia. Further more Androgenetic Alopecia has nothing to do with the Liver.

See you in 6-12 months time when you realize this, like all the other "treatments" youve tried doesnt work.

What happened to you getting fluridl or RU? That would make more sense to me.

the cause of Androgenetic Alopecia has already been found. Its genetics that are expressed by Androgens. There is a ton of proof and evidence to back this up. why you dont listen is beyond me.

 

[Hoppi]

your wasting your time hoppi.

I know people who are very healthy...health freaks if you like. Balding or bald.

I know people who abuse steroids with full heads of hair. One even destroyed lots of his liver through steroids and had crazy yellow simpsons skin.

A healthy liver is better than a diseased one. But it aint gonna stop Androgenetic Alopecia. Further more Androgenetic Alopecia has nothing to do with the Liver.

See you in 6-12 months time when you realize this, like all the other "treatments" youve tried doesnt work.

What happened to you getting fluridl or RU? That would make more sense to me.

the cause of Androgenetic Alopecia has already been found. Its genetics that are expressed by Androgens. There is a ton of proof and evidence to back this up. why you dont listen is beyond me.

I'm not saying it's not genetics and androgens, I'm saying that the liver REGULATES those androgens. Just because you're genetically susceptible to something it DOESN'T NECESSARILY MEAN you're going to get it - you know that. I know the chances of convincing you blaze are very low - we may just have to agree to disagree and go our separate ways on this one to be honest!

 

[Hoppi]

How do you explain George Best then?

A man in his 50s who had to have a liver transplant and died late 50s will a full head of hair.

Also why have so many drunks got f***ed livers and great hair?

Believing that male pattern baldness is genetic and believing it's hormonal are not mutually exclusive Monty lol

On the contrary, it's called science! lol

In addition, I'm starting to think that a fatty liver and an alcohol-abused liver are two different things in regard to their continued ability for detox and hormone removal. A toxin-bombarded or hormone-bombarded liver are of course two OTHER categories. A bunged up bile duct for example seems to be very problematic, as it means the liver can't detox. It's a bit like bunging up your toilet and then wondering why the water is going everywhere when you flush it lol

 

[Hoppi]

Thanks for totally patronising me Hoppi! lol

Now I am edified I know it's called science!

Seriously though...

You're saying that despite his malfunctioning toxic liver that was not capable of sustaining his existence anymore it was still processing male androgens pefectly right?

So I infer that you are postulating that one or more toxic substances to the liver have discriminating affects on its impairment to do certain things right? And just cos it can't do one particular job that the body requires for sustainence of life, doesn't mean it can't do others very well!? :dunno:

Genes still dictate our overall susceptibility though. Badly regulated hormones just tip the balance in the favour of male pattern baldness, and the liver is the main regulator...

 

[Hoppi]

Genes still dictate our overall susceptibility though. Badly regulated hormones just tip the balance in the favour of male pattern baldness, and the liver is the main regulator...

Haha lol it keeps getting better and better

seaback - you're a biologist - significant liver problems (probably particularly fat and bile problems as they cause rapid, rapid toxic build-up) cause significant (at least statistically) hormonal changes. True or false?

EDIT -- Absolutely wonderful source of information here, including a herb that seems genuinely capable of dissolving/crushing CALCIFIED gallstones, not just the normal cholesterol ones (it's called Gold Coin Grass): http://www.sensiblehealth.com

Other good sources of info are CureZone (lots of great info on liver flushes) and a handful of other places I may link to later! I'm still learning!

 

[Thkmra]

Thanks for totally patronising me Hoppi! lol

Now I am edified I know it's called science!

Seriously though...

You're saying that despite his malfunctioning toxic liver that was not capable of sustaining his existence anymore it was still processing male androgens pefectly right?

So I infer that you are postulating that one or more toxic substances to the liver have discriminating affects on its impairment to do certain things right? And just cos it can't do one particular job that the body requires for sustainence of life, doesn't mean it can't do others very well!? :dunno:

Genes still dictate our overall susceptibility though. Badly regulated hormones just tip the balance in the favour of male pattern baldness, and the liver is the main regulator...

That much I believe to be true in many cases. Unfortunately science has never been explain how an entire family of balds just mysteriously manages to skip over some members at random...and the whole: 'It's just genes' thing is :thumbdown2:

 

[Hoppi]

That much I believe to be true in many cases. Unfortunately science has never been explain how an entire family of balds just mysteriously manages to skip over some members at random...and the whole: 'It's just genes' thing is :thumbdown2:

Thanks for the (at least partial!) agreement man

I've actually spent quite a few hours today (as well as cooking this rather tasty-looking carrot and coriander soup!) trying to develop a small group of supplements that, possibly with a liver flush or 2, will simply NUKE fats and junk from the liver and gallbladder, get it pumping out bile and cleansed, and do it all quickly without the need for exercise programmes or long-term finger-crossing! Then, the theory can be tested.

Here is what I have: The three supplements are MALIC ACID (to dissolve and soften cholesterol stones and biliary sludge), GOLD COIN GRASS (to crush calcium stones and help to flush the calcium) and GENTIAN (to cleanse and detox the liver and make it easier for the other two to penetrate). Then, a simple Hulda Clark liver flush (ideally with some oxy-powder a couple of times before and after, and less Epsom salts is advised) or 2, with at least one a month after starting the supplements should just purge ALL of that junk from the liver and leave it tip-top!

This was of course influenced by sensiblehealth but also many, many other places. It's still new so I might change it, but who knows it might be final!

Will resuming good or perfect working order to the body's main hormone purger cure Androgenetic Alopecia in a significant number of people (and probably PCOS in women too)? I think we should find out!

 

[Thkmra]

Unfortunately science has never been explain how an entire family of balds just mysteriously manages to skip over some members at random

Why do you say that? Many genes which are not expressed in one individual can be expressed in his descendants. Hair loss is one example among thousands. There is absolutely no mystery in here.

That's precisely my, rather our point!! Who's to say that instead of 30% pf people who suffer from hair loss, an even greater number 'should', that is to say carry the gene that lies dormant, and for whatever reason never expresses itself?

If that much is true than it stands to reason that in SOME circumstances, things like: poor health, nutrition, and or a hormonal balance/fluctuation can 'tip the scale'. But then at some point 'it's for the birds', and we need to just deal in the meantime!!

 

[Jocko59]

Hoppi, I think that Curezone and Immortalhair are perfect hangouts for you. Plenty of wackjobs on those sites.

 

[Hoppi]

Hoppi, I think that Curezone and IH are perfect hangouts for you. Plenty of wackjobs on those sites.

Yeah I'm on both... rofl - I actually have CureZone open in another tab as we speak lol

Thing is like... if I can just hit this one on the head... then I've cured myself and probably scores or hundreds or even MILLIONS of others! heh That would be so cool...

I'm actually starting to think what I have is a small, badly placed intrahepatic/gall stone, but probably uncalcified so not too serious. That would explain the sudden specific digestive problems and hormonal shift, if all that happened is the stone moved forward a bit. If it IS that (which makes more sense than other similar alternatives such as sludge)... what a great big mess over nothing!!!! lol

 

[Jocko59]

But I thought you were on the Iodine/Thryoid kick for quite some time. So which is it? Is it your thyroid or your liver causing your hair loss?

 

[Hoppi]

But I thought you were on the Iodine/Thryoid kick for quite some time. So which is it? Is it your thyroid or your liver causing your hair loss?

Thing is I'm just always learning that's all. I've gone through so many theories for myself - SHBG, thyroid, collagen, "just genes", etc. Many times I've just tried to convince myself there's nothing I can do, it's just the way I am genetically, and I've reached for the minoxidil or planned an order for RU58841. But then, I go into a shop and can't have the prawn mayo baguette I want, for example. And why? Because I get terrible cramps/diarrhoea and usually pass out when I eat too much mayo and when did that start? Exactly when my skin problems and hair problems (and body hair increase) started. And did EITHER of my parents or grandparents experience hair loss or thinning at my age? Nope.

Do you see now why I'm so stuck on this? I just KNOW it's my health.. my digestive system is SO much worse since all this started and my skin looks like s*** lol.

If it's "just genes" then why the massive, massive coincidences?

 

[mpbsux20]

Hoppi were you ever a chronic drinker ? or has there ever been cases of liver related disorders in your family ?

 

[Hoppi]

Hoppi were you ever a chronic drinker ? or has there ever been cases of liver related disorders in your family ?

lol no, to be honest I think alcohol liver damage and cholesterol-based liver damage are pretty different things. Toxins vs fat, basically. But then, fat in and around the liver LEADS to toxin build-up, so I guess there are at least similarities. I think parasites can have an effect too as they release toxins and sap nutrients, but I don't think that's my problem... Justin said it was parasites and bacteria though, so I always look into it just in case.