Look, does masturbation/sex worsen hairloss or NOT?

[Afro_Vacancy]

I didn't know about his stance on hormones, but I find it rather odd he'd think hormones are not affected by this. Maybe he's trying to bank it all on psychology because he's a psychologist?

That's what I think lol, the psychologist is pushing the psychology angle.

Yourbrainonporn is a load of horsecrack pushed by neopuritans incels who wish all men were sexless.

Normal people don't waste their time with this. They masturbate and they have sex because they just want to, and because they can.

These nofap guys think that abstinence will turn them into slayers, because women will sense the alpha winner in them.

Please.

The scientific evidence from multiple independent studies and countless testimonials is overwhelming at this point.

It's like arguing that minoxidil never works. Once you have studies showing that minoxidil works, and once you have countless testimonials telling you minoxidil worked for them, you should stop arguing that it never works.

 

[Afro_Vacancy]

Evidence about what? That these guys still won't get laid after they reach 1 year without PMO.

Yep, plenty of anecdotal evidence about that. These studies are subjective and cannot be replicated.

Minoxil's efficiency can actually be measured and proven without any doubt.

So bad comparison. Quite surprising for a scientific guy like you.

You're wasting your time with this nofap nonsense.

You have a violent negative reaction to any suggestion that encourages effort for reward. It's a comical defence mechanism.

The studies have been replicated in numerous contexts multiple times now and in different countries and age groups. There are tons of studies on the subjects, more than you will ever read. The anecdotal evidence is in the thousands as far as I can tell and plenty of those guys are having sex.

And no, it doesn't solve every case, similarly with minoxidil which doesn't solve every case of male pattern baldness.

I can almost speak from personal experience though that no pmo / nofap works. I'm getting benefits either from that or the weight lifting, or both. I assume both personally.

 

[Afro_Vacancy]

It's all placebo.

LOL, yeah the greatest placebo effect in history.

ED all over the world skyrockets right when high speed internet p**rn takes off. Then, tens of thousands of dicks start working again within months of people no longer using high-speed internet p**rn.

Must be a placebo. Just like Minoxidil right? Hairs randomly start growing ... "must be a placebo". That's exactly how physiology works.

Anyway here are the facts on no pmo / no fap:

1) It's an effective means to deal with erectile dysfunction and has helped a lot but not all young men including cases where other treatment avenues have failed.
2) As a treatment for male pattern baldness it is speculation based on anecdotes rather than rigorous empirical science. That is partly because the mechanism is not obvious, and partly because male pattern baldness is a scientific graveyard in which there is little money for proper clinical investigations. For many people, speculation is the only hope when it comes to dealing with male pattern baldness. Personally, I don't recommend this as a primary treatment for male pattern baldness.

 

[Afro_Vacancy]

There was a poll on the nofap section of reddit and the vast majority of the nofappers said they hadn't had sex in years.

The reason they're not having sex is that they can't have sex. They're physically incapable of doing so. That's why they're seeking treatment.

It's equivalent to someone in a physiotherapy after an accident not having gone skiing. They might never be able to ski again unless they get proper treatment. It isn't insightful to say "LMAO !!!! the people in physiotherapy haven't gone skiing recently !!! that says it all !!!" In their case physiotherapy is a prerequisite to going skiing again.

Nofap clearly works for a lot of people and fails for others. Just like v**** works for many and fails for many. Just like testosterone replacement therapy. Every case is different and I wish the best of luck to anybody seeking treatment.

 

[Dench57]

Didn't @shookwun have PIED?

 

[Afro_Vacancy]

I've masturbated to p**rn regularly since I was 13, never had ED.

It does nothing for male pattern baldness. 0. Jack. There are threads about from 1999, no one has ever stopped their baldness by abstaining.

Your ED was most likely caused by you being overweight. Other than that, it's allin these people's head, even in these so-called studies.

I wish people would concentrate on real issues instead of trying to find problems where there are none.

But hey, I guess it's so much easier than attacking the real problem. In your case, it was the extra weight. For other people, it might be their bedroom anxiety, or their depression caused by their empty lives, so empty that they need to partake in this nofap nonsense.

Funny how I don't have any of these problems.

You're not a doctor nor a scientist Fred so you should stop acting like one. You keep speaking like you're a great scientific authority delivering verdicts on issues where you've done zero research, it's embarrassing.

It's like the time you said you burn 8,000 calories every time you have sex. You were so sure it was true. No -- it's not. You don't burn 8,000 calories from sex. You might be burning 400.

You have absolutely no idea about weight and ED -- it's something you just invented off the top of your head. You didn't look up any studies. You didn't look up any information. Maybe you looked at some headlines. You just assumed so because you like arguing. There is in fact a weak correlation between obesity and ED, but it occurs at much, much higher weights, and in men with diabetes for example which I didn't have. I got tested for diabetes multiple times. I also had my testosterone levels tested, even when I weighed ~100 Kg (!!!), my testosterone was average, 19.8 in one measure and 504 in the other. My blood pressure never went higher than ~125/80. If you look up the studies linking obesity to ED -- which you have not done -- they mention high age, high blood pressure, low testosterone, and diabetes, none of which is relevant to me.

The other issue is that between December and May my weight was stable at ~90 Kg since I was travelling regularly. The only thing that changed is nofap.

A friend of mine who is 33 and who reached ~127 Kg and lost his sex drive had his testosterone measured ... it was 12, much lower than my previous 19 (which is now 26). He also had high blood pressure, I think it was 150/100. In his case it was clear that obesity was the issue. His fiancee was growing frustrated because he had no sex drive. For the record he's slept with ~50 women in his life and has never masturbated regularly. Once he started intermittent fasting, he lost 20 lbs quickly and his sex drive returned.

From WebMD, discussing an italian study:

Abnormal penile blood flow was found to be linked to high blood pressure.

http://www.webmd.com/erectile-dysfunction/news/20081031/obesity-linked-to-erectile-dysfunction

This study shows that obesity in and of itself is not risk factor, the risk is that it correlates with vascular degeneracy
http://www.karger.com/Article/Abstract/19929

However, when we focused only on the patients without any vascular risk factors, no significant difference between the 2 groups was noted in the quality of residual erectile function and also the prevalence of penile vascular impairments (p > 0.05). Conclusions: These data demonstrate that obesity in itself does not seem to be an underlying factor, but does impose a risk to vasculogenic impotence by developing chronic vascular disease.

This study find evidence of ED-obesity in men with a body mass index of 36 (I would have had to weight ~118 Kg, a whopping 18 Kg higher than when I fist took blood tests), and with high values of C-reactive protein, a marker of inflammation. High values of CRP start at "5", mine is "1", which is 80% lower. I have very low inflammation, literally 80% lower than the danger threshold.
http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=198993

You really shouldn't make stuff up Fred -- it's bad for the forum. If you're not interested in doing research, then don't do it and don't contribute to discussions. I was aware of all the points above -- and certainly I encourage everybody to stay below ~15% body fat -- but I felt compelled to report the research lest anybody be swayed by your fabrications. It's important to do actual research and take blood tests rather than simply assume things.

"We're all different."

Indeed, just like how you have a unique response to anti-depressants: you grew boobs.

I was on prozac for over a year and didn't grow boobs. Also tried a few other drugs. The vast majority of people on SSRI's don't grow boobs.

They work well for some people (supposedly), but not for you. You are different. Everybody's different.

Similarly, minoxidil seems to not work on a lot of people.

 

[Afro_Vacancy]

Lol, reasearch, bring that to any doctor or scientist, they'll laugh at your face.

Here's a presentation (part 1 of 4) on p**rn-induced erectile dysfunction discussed at the largest annual meeting of the American Urological Association:

The person presenting is Dr. Tarek Pacha, he's board certified in urology and he did his residency at Michigan State.

It's very competitive to present talks at these kinds of conferences. I know because I've presented talks at a major scientific conferences: slots are hard to get. I presented once in Orlando in January and am presenting in Palm Cove next month, a whole lot of people get turned down. The fact he got a slot means the issue is well-regarded by the people running the conference, who are the top respected doctors in the area of penile health.

This is a hair loss forum, I don't see how this nofap mumbo jumbo is relevant.

90% of your posts are not related to hair loss.

 

[Trendy]

I would like to focus on OP's original question - does ejaculation cause hair loss?

As a treatment for male pattern baldness it is speculation based on anecdotes rather than rigorous empirical science. That is partly because the mechanism is not obvious, and partly because male pattern baldness is a scientific graveyard in which there is little money for proper clinical investigations.

There actually is scientific evidence linking ejaculation to hair loss. Here is a summary of the facts known so far:

1. Studies show that at ejaculation oxytocin is released into the bloodstream.
2. Oxytocin then activates/stimulates 5-alpha-reductase.
   
3. We know that 5-alpha-reductase converts testosterone into DHT.
4. DHT causes the hair follicle to miniaturize by blocking off supplies

We would of course need more data of individuals' sexual activity. For understandable reasons, this question is taboo in our current society. Not many studies and surveys have been carried out for that reason.

 

[kj6723]

I have made hair gains while masterbating approximately once a day

 

[mdmnota]

It slows down hair loss, if nothing else this is true. Immediately after ejaculation, my scalp gets oily, itchy, and hair loss gradient increases. Yet again, my longest streak was 2 months, and it didn't completely stopped hair loss, but my hair was much more alive.

On the other hand I don't have typical male pattern baldness since I'm loosing hair from sides, and eyebrows/eyelashes as well.

 

[Giiizmo]

I would like to focus on OP's original question - does ejaculation cause hair loss?



There actually is scientific evidence linking ejaculation to hair loss. Here is a summary of the facts known so far:

1. Studies show that at ejaculation oxytocin is released into the bloodstream.
2. Oxytocin then activates/stimulates 5-alpha-reductase.
   
3. We know that 5-alpha-reductase converts testosterone into DHT.
4. DHT causes the hair follicle to miniaturize by blocking off supplies

We would of course need more data of individuals' sexual activity. For understandable reasons, this question is taboo in our current society. Not many studies and surveys have been carried out for that reason.

There is currently no scientific evidence that ejaculation leads to hair loss. From a cursive look, the only scientific thing about the website you linked to is that abstract from a 2006 study that says the following:

[...] At ejaculation, a burst of OT [Oxytocin] is released from the neurohypophysis into the systemic circulation and stimulates contractions of the reproductive tract aiding sperm release. There is conclusive evidence that OT is synthesized within the mammalian testis, epididymis and prostate and the presence of OT receptors (OTRs) through the reproductive tract supports a local action for this peptide. OT has a paracrine role in stimulating contractility of the seminiferous tubules, epididymis and the prostate gland. Interestingly, OT has also been shown to modulate androgen levels in these tissues via stimulation of the conversion of testosterone to dihydrotestostone (DHT) by 5alpha-reductase. [...] Within the prostate, OT has been shown to affect gland growth both directly and via its interaction with androgen metabolism. Prostate pathologies due to unregulated cell proliferation/growth, such as benign prostatic hyperplasia and cancer, are unfortunately very common and few effective treatments are available. Greater understanding of paracrine growth mediators, such as OT, is likely to provide new mechanisms for treating such pathologies.

The rest of the website is only conjecture and trying to find causation where there is barely any correlation.

In conclusion: those who want to fap, fap. Those who believe they are doing something beneficial for their health, don't fap - keyword being, of course, that it's a belief and not a fact.

 

[Giiizmo]

It slows down hair loss, if nothing else this is true. Immediately after ejaculation, my scalp gets oily, itchy, and hair loss gradient increases. Yet again, my longest streak was 2 months, and it didn't completely stopped hair loss, but my hair was much more alive.

On the other hand I don't have typical male pattern baldness since I'm loosing hair from sides, and eyebrows/eyelashes as well.

Just a thought, you might want to get your thyroid checked via a blood sample, especially if you have other symptoms like chronic fatigue, water retention, poor sleep and overall low energy. Eyebrow loss is a common side-effect of thyroid deficiency, hair loss being another.

 

[mdmnota]

Just a thought, you might want to get your thyroid checked via a blood sample, especially if you have other symptoms like chronic fatigue, water retention, poor sleep and overall low energy. Eyebrow loss is a common side-effect of thyroid deficiency, hair loss being another.

I did, and only TSH is a little bit lower but still in range, everything else seems fine.

None of the doctors couldn't tell me for sure why do i loose eyebrows and eyelashes.

 

[GotMyHairBack]

It slows down hair loss, if nothing else this is true. Immediately after ejaculation, my scalp gets oily, itchy, and hair loss gradient increases. Yet again, my longest streak was 2 months, and it didn't completely stopped hair loss, but my hair was much more alive.

On the other hand I don't have typical male pattern baldness since I'm loosing hair from sides, and eyebrows/eyelashes as well.

Hi mate, it is cruel but sometimes two months aren't enough. Especially when you have just started the streak after a lengthy period of over masturbation.
Like hair loss takes years to make hairs thinner and disappear, so is regrowth and regain. .
It is impossible to expect immediate results after the first few first hours you've stopped. Which in my opinion is why every male alive believe it cannot have something to do with sex.

I have just registered today because I simply cannot stand why it is always NO. Why then? I have done this test several times, and out of 80 times, 73 it stopped heavy hair loss as well as other symptoms oily, itchy, inflammations and that sensation you have that the scalp cannot hold your hairs anymore, that feeling that hair on your head feels too heavy for the scalp. I never had hair loss free results within a fortnight and the moment I start to give in and tell myself that life is too short to keep worrying about hair all hell breaks loose again. All the problems are back when I masturbate (because it's addictive) and every time I lose!! I am currently not in a relationship, because guess what she broke up because she couldn't bear anymore that my hairs were everywhere on the floor, the steps, on the sofa, day after day. All these problems are gone for a long time when I say bugger off to the evil demons of sexual desires.

Another thing I read a lot (here) is that there is a difference between "releasing" and "without releasing". No, no, no, it is the other way around. Refrain from masturbating, is like following a diet, you cannot do it half, eat healthy on the weekdays and stuff yourself with fatty foods in the weekends. Out of the maybe 80 times I did this, I didn't want to listen and every time the same nightmare repeated. I have certain spots on my scalp now where the hair won't come back. the follicles may be gone forever. Currently my hair feels soft and strong and the hair loss is very insignificant, like the olden days. But it is good for self-confidence and nobody can call me a wanker. If they do, I know it's them theirselves that are and not me.

Oh and one last thing. I do not believe in the effects of finasteride, I'd rather not tinker with hormones. All it really does imho is kill your sex drive which you can also do the natural way.

 

[Lavishous]

I have super aggressive diffuse loss at 21 y/o (~NW3V) and will be doing nofap through all of 2018 as part of my minimalist/no fucks given regimen. I will report results in this thread and elsewhere. Worth noting I am among the worst p**rn addicts that I've ever heard of (I'm talking 8 hr binges) and started fappin in 8th grade. Stay tuned folks!

 

[anon082]

I am currently not in a relationship, because guess what she broke up because she couldn't bear anymore that my hairs were everywhere on the floor, the steps, on the sofa, day after day. All these problems are gone for a long time when I say bugger off to the evil demons of sexual desires.

Dude do you actually believe the reason you two broke up is because she was sick and tired of your hairs being everywhere? , that just sounds absurd ..

 

[AnxiousAndy]

While there is no scientific evidence to suggest it hurts hair, that doesn't mean that it does not. My theory is that a generic 'healthy' male does not have male pattern baldness, so by jacking off the effects of the increased DHT are not observed. On the other hand with the males who do have male pattern baldness it would be impossible to measure how much the masturbation is hurting the persons hair (if it is at all) because male pattern baldness is generally a very slow process. It may be possible for the individual experiencing the hair loss to notice an acceleration of it while masturbating more frequently but how would they prove that to the scientists conducting the study?
In my opinion I think frequent masturbation DOES hurt hair, but it is simply too difficult to prove.

 

[Aqalp]

Answering OP's question, I believe fapping did contribute to my male pattern baldness. Long story short, I was on anti epileptics that killed my libido during late teens/early20s, and had thickest healthiest hair imaginable. Once off meds in mid 20s, I began to fap ALOT, especially to p**rn. My hairloss began only months later.

 

[Rudiger]

I'll just copy what I wrote in the other thread about masturbation and hair loss:

I actually think I lost hair over the holiday period because of this (I take a long break at Christmas, and some years get very reclusive, a lot of wanking was had).

I was very sceptical about this, in fact beyond sceptical to simply knowing this has to be total bullshit, but I know what causes an itchy feeling, almost burning, in my scalp, and it's stressful situations, being overly horny, watching p*rn or the moments after masturbation. I know that feeling in prolonged periods of stressful situations (work, shitty relationships, general depression or anxiety) which cause that burning feeling, have left me shedding and thinning, and this itchiness is the exact same feeling I have after masturbating.

I don't believe at all that any amount of masturbation will have an impact on your hair in a biological sense, and because of that people are very quick to instantly dismiss it's effects psychologically. In the same sense that stress and depression can cause hair loss, so can obsessive and unhealthy lustful thoughts that rely on no social interaction, it's very simple, p*rn or excessively imagining a fantasy of being with someone is somewhat distressful emotionally in a way we don't quite face up to.

Inb4 "LOL dude you feel 'distressed' jacking it over tits and pussies, yeah right" well actually, although it's overall pleasurable, the reason I stopped watching as much p*rn (normally go by imagination or soft stuff, celebrities etc.) is because it actually starts to become this lengthy chore, of finding something exciting to you. Beautiful women in missionary doesn't always cut it, or even then as it usually does cut it, I still find myself stopping before climaxing, and clicking on a Recommended video, skipping through that for a few minutes and getting all hot over her, before doing it over and over again. Sometimes I've spent ages jerking/half jerking while searching, and come out of it with tabs and tabs of p*rn, the actual moment of orgasm is somewhat of a relief more than anything, it's half enjoying the orgasm but half thinking "thank f*** it's over". I've sometimes jerked for so long that I barely even enjoyed the orgasm, literally as I'm cumming I'm thinking about how I can finally get out of bed and do something.

Masturbating can go on for so long because it's like your fighting against your urge to c*m, so you can get the most out of it when you do, it's like "OK I'm nearly there, this looks great she's amazing... actually I'll hold out I might find something better". The infinite world of online p*rn has left us looking for something better even when you're looking at what is probably the most exciting image you could possibly dream of. It doesn't matter, you still want more.

I agree with the idea that 2-4 times a week being OK. It was normal for me at least once a day, but normally before I sleep and after I wake up, and even here and there if I feel like it (I live alone which doesn't help), and if I'm not away or anything on the weekends, I would guess in a week it could have been up to 15-20 times or so. And having sex doesn't even help much, at times this just makes me hornier afterwards. I would say this amount of time a week spent doing something so emotionally taxxing is relatable to prolonged periods of stress.

So the one thing that always stuck in my head was "when I've been happy having lots of sex my hair never felt better and didn't shed at all, re-growth happened on both minoxidil and propecia whilst orgasming a lot, how the f*** can doing it alone make a difference?!" well that's why I don't buy the science behind converted DHT etc.

But just because it doesn't effect us chemically does not mean it can't effect us psychologically. And no doubt at all that this can cause hair loss, for most young males they can regrow their hair when they come out of their period of stress etc. but for those of us with male pattern baldness, that follicle is fucked now.

 

[ElTioLaBota]

Yes but if you take virile mane you'll be able to wank with 0worries.
Now being serious yes, i think it does for some ppl, me included