Male, 18 - Am I balding

[Nebula74]

Of course undiluted Essential Oils would probably cause hairloss. Whenever anyone advises the use of Essential Oils for Hairloss it's a given that it's meant to be diluted with a Carrier Oil. That's obvious lol.

So you're basically saying you did in fact use undiluted Essential Oils directly on your scalp. Lmao you really are retarded.

I literally diluted it،just not enough, you even told me I wouldn't have had problems with such a mixture lol I was using coconut and rosemary oil.

Masturbation, prolactin levels, etc do affect some people in terms of accelerated thinning/hairloss. However rare it may be, it is still a high possibility that is possible for many.

Lol, it's clutching straws man, it's just odd how you try and dispute that Finasteride works in 80% of people which has been clinically proven to be the case, but then you claim that masturbation can affect hair loss without any actual evidence.

It's really funny how you're now trying to get me to leave this forum because I dare dispute your broscience lol

 

[Micky_007]

I literally diluted it،just not enough, you even told me I wouldn't have had problems with such a mixture lol I was using coconut and rosemary oil.

Lol, it's clutching straws man, it's just odd how you try and dispute that Finasteride works in 80% of people which has been clinically proven to be the case, but then you claim that masturbation can affect hair loss without any actual evidence.

It's really funny how you're now trying to get me to leave this forum because I dare dispute your broscience lol

I've only mentioned you should leave this forum after you mentioned regretting joining. Norwoody also agreed you should leave lol.

Yeah I did say that you wouldn't have a problem with a sufficient mixture, that was only based on what you told me at the time that you apparently did mix it correctly, but you literally created a second thread saying you didn't mix Essential oils correctly and now you've provided information regarding undiluted essential oils, as per your last statement, which leads me to believe you never diluted it in the first place.

Moreover, this link you provided says nothing about the essential oils I recommend you use (Rosemary and Peppermint Oil) and there's no *actual studies* in that link proving the essential oils when correctly diluted and correctly administered/applied as a topical (not taken via oral consumption so it shouldn't be dangerous as your link states because it wouldn't go systemic when applied topically) , cause hairloss, so without studies it's the equivalent to bro science LOL.

And regardless of whether you didn't dilute or you just didn't dilute it enough, it's still stupid.

LOL you're taking the results that claim "80% hairloss stoppage" as the Gospel Truth from the same studies that claim Finasteride has negligible or has under 2% side effects when there's been several studies which I have provided that prove otherwise, I have to laugh at the lack of common sense and critical thinking skills that entails for you to take results from the same studies that omit negative findings and deflate the negative side effects rate. Those studies lose integrity due to that, and it wouldnt be a stretch to believe they'd also falsely inflate "positive results" when they've already commited biasness/progaganda and probably corruption/fraud. So lol I don't know what bro-science you're talking about because I have provided many studies about the actual side effects and the actual rate of side effects on Finasteride. I have already explained why you wouldn't get studies on Masturbation and it's correlation to Hair loss because who is going to fund it? Its not financially backed by Big Pharma and those studies consistening of trial phases are extremely expensive, you simply won't get comprehensive studies on everything unfortunately.

Here's an example for you on this:

Why don't you show the real actual *studies* that shows that *Derma rolling causes shock hair loss* AND also *real studies* that state that *properly diluted Essential Oils* causes hair loss then? Lol it would be very hard to find if not non-existent in terms of proper studies. So if that's your basis for bro-science based on no studies, then you believing you experienced hairloss due to properly diluted Essential Oils or shock loss due to Derma rolling is also bro-science.

Regarding your statement about not using a Derma roller because you get shedding and it's not FDA approved, well i have news for you.
Follica is literally going to, very soon, release (as it's already passed all safety and efficacy FDA trials) a treatment that primarily consists of Microneedling. It basically has been FDA approved and is just waiting FDA clearance to be be brought to market. So yeah if you only listen to FDA approved stuff, I wonder what you'd have to say about them FDA approving microneedling LOL. You used to think the FDA only give clearance to safe treatments but here they are soon to give clearance to the very thing you've been ranting about that causes hairloss - microneedling (Note: it has already passed FDA safety trials phase). It is this same concept we've been trying to tell you that FDA clearance doesn't really mean sh*t because they are people who get side effects and just because something is FDA approved doesn't mean it's not hazardous or useless for many and often makes things worse. It's the same concept I've been explaining to you regarding Finasteride but you weren't listening.


Also, I can go on all day with proving you wrong.

 

[Nebula74]

Follica is literally going to, very soon, release (as it's already passed all safety and efficacy FDA trials) a treatment that primarily consists of Microneedling. It basically has been FDA approved and is just waiting FDA clearance to be be brought to market. So yeah if you only listen to FDA approved stuff, I wonder what you'd have to say about them FDA approving microneedling LOL. You used to think the FDA only give clearance to safe treatments but here they are soon to give clearance to the very thing you've been ranting about that causes hairloss - microneedling (Note: it has already passed FDA safety trials phase). It is this same concept we've been trying to tell you that FDA clearance doesn't really mean sh*t because they are people who get side effects and just because something is FDA approved doesn't mean it's not hazardous or useless for many and often makes things worse. It's the same concept I've been explaining to you regarding Finasteride but you weren't listening.


.

Follica is a stupid example to reply to my argument. LOL. Because that's a specially made microneedling device which will of course have a great difference in quality compared to a dermaroller bought of Amazon LOL. And there haven't been many studies on dermarolling (notice how I said dermarolling instead of microneedling which is similar but different) except for those random ones in India which has got people hyped. So because there haven't any substantial studies on the impact of dermarolling, not the usage of essential oils, it's much easier to posit that usage of them could cause harm.

Which is not the case as you claim with Finasteride, which has been used and studied for nearly 30 years. Therefore, it is much harder to dispute the efficacy of Finasteride than it is to substantiate my claims, which I literally have photographic proof of.

Apart from the few nitpicked studies you showed, the vast majority of them speak in favour of the efficacy of Finasteride.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4285451/

So to conclude, Finasteride may not be some wonder pill, and I'm not saying it is, but people should educate themselves about the drug, because for men people, it's literally the only choice they have between going bald and not. Hopefully in the future, we have better drugs than finasteride, but so far, I've not had any side effects, and I'm already visiting here and tresssless less, because I feel like I'm actually doing something beneficial for my hair for once, so mentally, it is helping too

 

[Micky_007]

And didn't I recommend you use a Derma pen not a Derma roller? So you really shouldn't have blamed me for your decision to go with an Amazon Derma roller especially when I always ever used the term microneedling not Derma rolling.
But regardless of whether you used a Derma roller or a Derma pen, it still hurts a lot and everyone I know that even used a Derma pen have also said it still hurts a lot.
So you would have still experienced shock loss whether you used a Derma pen or a Derma roller.
And I believe the Follica Microneedling device is going to be very similar to a Derma Pen or Derminator because the technology for both is pretty good already, I don't see much more technological advancements that would be a significant difference. Follica is actually just going to be simple Microneedling with Minoxidil. It's really nothing new. I recall they mentioned in the Follica Trial that people said the pain rating from 0 to 10 was on average a rating of 7. So you definitely would have still experienced shedding with Follica, but here they are, soon to be FDA approving it lol.

You may ask: So why is Follica taking the effort to go through such lengthy trials if it's essentially already on the market already?

The answer: To get an official FDA approval stamp and market to doctors, etc. It would be a big claim they could make and get into a lot of dermatology offices.

Onto the next issue: That's exactly my point, you won't get sufficient studies on certain things like dermma rolling, masturbation and essential oils because they are not products of Big Pharma and don't have the financial backing to just fund studies.

Regarding the masturbation thing, there's a correlation that exists between masturbation and increased DHT levels. That spike in DHT, no matter how short it may be in duration, it's effect on thinning or accelerated hairloss will depend on how sensitive an individual is to DHT. Of course lots of people who have male pattern baldness wouldn't be really sensitive to DHT spikes but some people would. It's common sense that because everyone has a different chemical makeup, people will have varying degrees of sensitivity. So as I mentioned, I still stand by the fact that some* (not ALL men) will experience accelerated thinning of hair due to Masturbation. To be honest, I highly doubt masturbation would actually cause outright hair fall /shedding, to be clear, the only thing I'm saying is that in some people who masturbate + have male pattern baldness, they may experience accelerated hair thinning which is also the same as saying "accelerates hairloss" (which is the term I used previously) .

Next point, regarding essential oils, it's been around and used for decades (became more popular around the late 70's) . It's definitely been in use before even Finasteride came to market and in America too. The only reason there's no studies is not because it hasn't been used until recently. It's due to lack of funding to conduct studies. As I mentioned, why would Big Pharma spend money on testing oils that aren't even their products. Big Pharma makes money from pharmaceutical drugs not natural substances. Even medical doctors will only ever recommend you Pharmaceutical drugs even when sometimes, natural remedies are better.

I personally had an experience where my sense of smell was almost non existant for several years and I went to doctors, specialists (ENT) and even a maxillo-facial surgeon who all told me once your sense of smell is gone, there's no bringing it back. They say sometimes it happens to people who use chronic Nasal Sprays for Allergic Rhinitis. I searched high and low on the internet and everything confirmed that there's no way to restore your sense of smell once it's lost. I literally spent years upon years looking for a solution, went to get 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th opinions from other doctors and specialists until one day I came across a medical doctor who was also a Naturopathic Doctor, he was one of only 3 in the country to be both. He recommended me an oil called Acorus Oil. Told me to use 3 drops every 2 hours into each nostril. That it would take atleast 3 to 6 months to see results because the nerves in my nose have been almost dead for a very long time and this oil can help stimulate it. To my absolute surprise, after 3 days my sense of smell came back, after having essentially no sense of smell for 15 years. This is the reason I've been telling you, essential oils are not to be underestimated. There's many times when natural substances work far better than pharmaceutical drugs.

Unfortunately, you will never ever get anyone doing proper studies on Acorus Oil for restoring sense of smell.

The problem most people have is that they don't use Essential Oils regularly on their hair, like daily or every second day, for atleast 6 months before making judgments.
Take 2% Ketoconazole Shampoo for example, even in studies it shows that significant results can only be seen after the 6 month mark. So as to why some people expect miraculous results after a few days is absurd.


Regarding, your point about the studies on Finasteride. It's not nit picked studies. I could say the same about the studies you provided.

So again, you're believing the same studies that claim that Finasteride side effects only occur in under 10% of users as the Gospel Truth from the same studies that omit negative findings and deflate the negative side effects rate, which does not make any logical sense. Those studies lose integrity due to that, and it wouldnt be a stretch to believe they'd also falsely inflate "positive results" when they've already commited biasness/progaganda and probably corruption/fraud.

These studies that are pro-Finasteride that are supposedly "independent studies on Finasteride" are usually just corrupt studies that are funded secretly by Big Pharma/Merck with bought off scientists and regulatory board members to portray Finasteride in a positive light. It's simple Business 101 and marketing.

Go to any major hair loss forum that is worthy of respect (not reddit lol) on the internet and you will see a phletora of people say they either experienced side effects on Finasteride or are scared to use it because they know people who actually had side effects.

I wouldn't believe studies that make a product look only good, even if theres more of these studies - it's actually logical that Finasteride would have more pro-Finasteride studies that paint it in a positive light than negative studies because Big Pharma has billions of dollars and that comes with large resources and marketing power to portray Finasteride in a positive light (falsely). They've also had a head start for at least a decade to portray Finasteride in a positive light, but as of 2011, exponentially more and more studies are showing how dangerous Finasteride actually is as opposed to what was advertised and how many more people are speaking out about their side effects.

Money is power however, and there's corruption in every industry or government in the world so as to why some people think the pharmaceutical industry isn't corrupt and isn't ruled by money, is ludicrous.

I would definitely choose to believe the studies that are against Finasteride especially when there's so many studies that speak highly negative against Finasteride. There's several websites talking negative about Finasterides side effects now, there's also a literal organization called Post Finasteride Syndrome Organization that has almost 100 000 users that are regular on its website that is used for those that experience persistent/permanent side effects from Finasteride.

There were also over 1000 law suits against Merck (which manufacturers Propecia) which paid out $4.3 million. If they were innocent they wouldn't have had to pay anything out to the sufferers of Finasteride. So that says a lot.

Merck was found to omit side effects and lower the rate of side effects which is why they got sued. Also, some people died from Finasteride due to the permanent hormonal imbalances it caused which lead to things like severe depression. Mental side effects of Finasteride are real. These things are not small issues like someone just forgot to publish the full side effects report. People had to get paid off and bribed to be quiet to allow such to happen. Which is why I say even the FDA is corrupt to allow the omittance of certain side effects.

Finasteride and Propecia have far too many scars for anyone to believe their honest and have integrity. Once again, if they can falsely deflate the % of negative side effects experienced by users and if they can omit side effects in their publishing reports/studies, it's obvious they'd also falsely inflate "positive results".

With so many scars against the product it would be delusional to believe half the things Merck or other studies say that only praise Finasteride.

Yes, it's unfortunate that there are lack of better *FDA approved* treatments for Hairloss other than Finasteride currently, but as mentioned, there's other alternatives which is why I always recommend people try the safer stuff first. If and only if they have no success they can try Finasteride as a last resort, and only if their hairloss is really aggressive.

 

[Nebula74]

Regarding the masturbation thing, there's a correlation that exists between masturbation and increased DHT levels. That spike in DHT, no matter how short it may be in duration, it's effect on thinning or accelerated hairloss will depend on how sensitive an individual is to DHT. Of course lots of people who have male pattern baldness wouldn't be really sensitive to DHT spikes but some people would. It's common sense that because everyone has a different chemical makeup, people will have varying degrees of sensitivity. So as I mentioned, I still stand by the fact that some* (not ALL men) will experience accelerated thinning of hair due to Masturbation. To be honest, I highly doubt masturbation would actually cause outright hair fall /shedding, to be clear, the only thing I'm saying is that in some people who masturbate + have male pattern baldness, they may experience accelerated hair thinning which is also the same as saying "accelerates hairloss" (which is the term I used previously) .

Okay, I respect your opinion, and this was quite a well written post, but I still have to dispute this masturbation thing. I think the reason why people associate masturbation with hair loss is because it happens at sexual maturity, and for some that's when hair loss commences.

Also, I feel like if you're 21+ Finasteride should be the first port of call for hair loss. I admit I'm being risky by taking it at 18, but I was developing BDD about my hair and couldn't stand to look at myself in the mirror, and was spending all day looking at forums and pictures of my hair, and I felt very powerless, and I feel like Finasteride actually gives me some hope, that's why I'm speaking in favour of it. I'm not trying to convince myself it's a magic pill, but I'm trying to be optimistic with it, because it's my only hope at stopping this hair loss, I started using Regaine too.

Also, for some reason, the hairs that are falling out of my temple and crown are red, I think it's from the blood that dermarolling produced

 

[Micky_007]

Okay, I respect your opinion, and this was quite a well written post, but I still have to dispute this masturbation thing. I think the reason why people associate masturbation with hair loss is because it happens at sexual maturity, and for some that's when hair loss commences.

Also, I feel like if you're 21+ Finasteride should be the first port of call for hair loss. I admit I'm being risky by taking it at 18, but I was developing BDD about my hair and couldn't stand to look at myself in the mirror, and was spending all day looking at forums and pictures of my hair, and I felt very powerless, and I feel like Finasteride actually gives me some hope, that's why I'm speaking in favour of it. I'm not trying to convince myself it's a magic pill, but I'm trying to be optimistic with it, because it's my only hope at stopping this hair loss, I started using Regaine too.

Also, for some reason, the hairs that are falling out of my temple and crown are red, I think it's from the blood that dermarolling produced

It's not standalone factor - whereby just masturbation alone would cause acceleration in hairloss, it's a combination of several factors. Sexual maturity and the male pattern baldness are mandatory factors for Hairloss to begin, but what determines the age of hairloss is due to genetics. Masturbation only accelerates the thinning cycle BUT

If your are sensitive to masturbation induced accelerated-hairloss, usually these individuals already have a suspicion that it is a factor. For example, when i used to masturbate, I could literally feel that warm, tingly/itchy feeling on my scalp that's associated with DHT and male pattern baldness start to pop up out of nowhere, every single time almost instantaneously after cumming. The only times I didn't instantaneously feel that sensation was when I hadn't masturbated in a really long time and I just wanked once. But on the days when I wanked more than once, I always felt the sensation after cumming. My hair in some places startes to feel abit thinner the next day. I know it would sound hard to imagine how it's even possible to see noticeable effects so soon, if it hasn't happened to you, but it's true.
A similar concept is how everyone was initially telling you its way too soon for you to experience shedding or hairloss after you used hair treatments, but it did happen to you instantaneously - exactly what I meant by everyone is different.
I've also seen quite a few people on the internet forums mention what I'm talking about masturbation induced accelerated hairloss. Some reportered worse than me.

In general, I would say if this hasn't happened to you and so you therefore don't have any suspicions about masturbation induced accelerated hairloss, then you probably aren't sensitive to masturbation at all. This is quite a rare thing it seems so it's not something I expect many people to agree with. But there are people that it does affect.

Regarding Finasteride and your hairloss, I emphathize with anyone losing hair. I would not wish it on anyone. If the idea of using Finasteride gives you peace of mind personally, by all means try it. Usually you wouldnt get side effects within the 1st month of use so it's far to early for you to expect sides.

People respond differently some people get no side effects until 4 months, some only get sides after the 1 year mark, some exactly on the 1.5 month mark. Everyone is different. Its important to stay optimistic regardless of what treatment you use but to also keep in mind what to look out for.

And yes those hairs you lost are probably from the dermaroller then, but it's probably just shock loss and will grow back. Just don't apply anything physically* onto your hair so that it gets a break to recover.

 

[Nebula74]

..

Regarding Finasteride and your hairloss, I emphathize with anyone losing hair. I would not wish it on anyone. If the idea of using Finasteride gives you peace of mind personally, by all means try it. Usually you wouldnt get side effects within the 1st month of use so it's far to early for you to expect sides.

People respond differently some people get no side effects until 4 months, some only get sides after the 1 year mark, some exactly on the 1.5 month mark. Everyone is different. Its important to stay optimistic regardless of what treatment you use but to also keep in mind what to look out for.

What made you quit the drug?

 

[Micky_007]

What made you quit the drug?

The same reason as everyone that quits Finasteride. Side effects. Also, Finasteride didn't improve my hairloss or stop it in anyway. It only made it my hair far worse and thinner. We discussed this in this thread some time back.

 

[Catagen]

@Micky_007
Still 0 proof masturbation causes hair loss. You would need to do a high quality nofap study with thousands of participants and controls fapping 3 times per week.
On the other hand when men who start with feminizing hormones get a drop in libido and they stop masturbating or masturbate much rarely like once a week so hrt works because it stops fapping. Masturbation probably has an affect on your hair loss the same way as breathing does, everything effects it but it pales in comparison to your genetics.
@Nebula74
Your hair loss is invisible to others and most likely will be in the foreseeable future. You have started treatment before anyone can say anything. I recommend you leave hair loss forums for the next 6 months and come back with pics to reevaluate.

 

[Micky_007]

@Micky_007
Still 0 proof masturbation causes hair loss. You would need to do a high quality nofap study with thousands of participants and controls fapping 3 times per week.
On the other hand when men who start with feminizing hormones get a drop in libido and they stop masturbating or masturbate much rarely like once a week so hrt works because it stops fapping. Masturbation probably has an affect on your hair loss the same way as breathing does, everything effects it but it pales in comparison to your genetics.
@Nebula74
Your hair loss is invisible to others and most likely will be in the foreseeable future. You have started treatment before anyone can say anything. I recommend you leave hair loss forums for the next 6 months and come back with pics to reevaluate.

As I mentioned in this thread, unfortunately we will probably never get sufficient studies on Masturbation and it's link to Hair Loss because who is going to fund it? No one. And definitely not Big Pharma because it doesn't affect them in any way. We also know that there are studies out there that are corrupt or not fully accurate (I'm talking about studies in general and not just studies for Masturbation). In the history of studies there's been several times when more in depth studies have had to been performed and they proved older studies to be wrong/inaccurate.

In life there will be many times where there won't have sufficient studies, like I also explained regarding how Acorus Oil restored my sense of smell but there's no studies for it, or how Nebula74 experienced shedding after the use of a Dermaroller but there are no studies for it, but sometimes you have to go by what sounds most logical and if you have a strong feeling something like Masturbation does infact affect you, it probably does.

If you don't feel* masturbation affects your hair, don't even bother with this statement because it probably doesn't even affect your hair in the first place. People are different. No one is the same.

 

[Jacoby77]

Great decision Nebula, if it's any help I don't think you'll be noticeably bald by the time you're 20 or even 23, unless you've very aggresive hair loss (Losing more than 100 hairs per day). If you add dermarolling with a good 1.5mm dermaroller and a ketoconazole shampoo such as Nizoral (Along with the Minoxidil 5% you're planning to start soon) you should hold up pretty well by the time you're 20. You shouldn't stress too much about your development since puberty ends for most males at 15-16 years old. Many doctors could be willing to prescribe you finasteride and you may be able to get it from online pharmacies too but I don't really think you need it yet, and most users here would probably suggest waiting until you're 19 or 20 at least. If you're a good responder to finasteride you may be able to hold it for 10-15 years, maybe more (I've read success stories here of people who have been 20 years on the pill, not more than that because it was FDA approved in 1998).

Also, I don't think masturbation has much of an impact on hair loss: I used to wank off 4 to five times a week while younger, and I was a solid NW1 like my dad. After I finished high school I stopped masturbating so much due to college, and I started losing my baby hairs by the time I was 19-20. Now I'm 23 with minor recession that only I and a norwood spotter would notice, and I've even lower libido than when I was in high school.

Isn't his hairline better than mine yet people say I'm good? What

 

[NickyA]

Isn't his hairline better than mine yet people say I'm good? What

Probably because you wrote that there aren't any bald relatives in your family. I'd be worried about my hair situation in your case otherwise, since your hair does seem quite thin.