Milk! Interesting article....

[sublime]

Just because they drink it does not mean it is good for them.

No, but that wasn't really my point. I clearly explained that it was a response to people who hilariously like to point out that man is the only animal that drinks the milk of another species, and/or drinks it into adulthood.

BTW, I imagine that if other animals continued drinking milk throughout their lives, they may also avoid lactase deficiency, just like many humans.

Bryan

I fail to see how your example of humans not being the only animals to drink milk into adulthood makes sense. I do not see cats going around milking cows. No animal drinks milk into adulthood or seeks to do so except man. This is not to say other animals do not like the taste of milk as you pointed out in your example.

I doubt we are in much disagreement about RAW milk. Obviously we have a different sense of danger on pasteurization of milk and the processing it goes through before it reaches the grocery store.

 

[docj077]

It's also important to remember that all polypeptide hormones in milk will be broken down by the digestive tract by the numerous peptidases that are in the stomach and secreted by the pancreas.

For this very reason, people can not take insulin, growth hormone, or any other polypeptide hormone orally. Steroid hormones are a different story.

So, oral intake of growth hormone, IGF-1, insulin, and all other polypeptide hormones (there are a lot of them) will be prevented. On the other hand, diamino acid compounds like thyroxine can easily be taken orally.

I wish people would remember such facts when they start freaking out about what is in their food.

I will see if I can find the canadian report that proves that untrue especially in the presence of casien. rbgh increases IGF-1 by 20-30% while pasteurization increases IGF-1 by 70%.

So, what the hell are you talking about? There is no possible way that peptide hormones will survive passage through the digestive tract whole. I don't care what any study says with regards to increased serum IGF-1 after a meal. It's impossible. Pure and simple. IGF-1 will increase so as to antagonize insulin.

If IGF-1 is increased in serum after eating or drinking dairy products, the cause is not dietary absorption, but dietary influence.

Seriously, you can't even dilute IGF-1 powder without it losing its potency. How would you expect it to be absorbed after traveling through a highly acidic environment filled with peptidases?

Pure and simple? I am guessing you still believe cigarettes are good for people. hhmmm. :wink:


"......provides both clear evidence that IGF-1 survives digestion (Xian et al, 1995) and an explanation for why the oral IGF-1 feeding studies looked at by JECFA in 1992 had ambiguous results, as is discussed below. Both the Monsanto-sponsored and the Elanco-sponsored studies previously considered by JECFA involved feeding free rIGF-1 by itself to rats. Neither used IGF-1 associated with its binding proteins (IGFBPs). IGFBPs are resistant to acidic conditions and may enable IGF-1 to survive digestion in the stomach (Corps and Brown, 1987; Donovan and Odle, 1994). Furthermore, in these two previous studies, the free IGF-1 was not mixed with other constituents of milk, such as casein, which more recent evidence indicates protect it from digestion."



"The demonstration that IGF-1 survives digestion through the protective effects of casein makes irrelevant the argument that human saliva contains IGF-1 at levels greater than the quantities that would be consumed in milk. As the IGF-1 produced by salivary glands is free IGF-1, without the protective effect of casein, it is unlikely to survive digestion.

Two earlier oral feeding studiesone sponsored by Monsanto and one by Elancoconcluded that IGF-1 does not survive digestion. Those studies are not definitive because rats were given free IGF-1, without casein or other protective proteins. Thus one would not expect the IGF-1 to survive digestion in these studies. Even so, a careful review of the Monsanto study suggested that some small amount of the IGF-1 administered in this study survived digestion and affected the rats' growth rate (Hansen, 1993)."

Like I said, IGF-1 can not survive in the digestive system. Looking at it from the perspective of protective proteins that allow it to survive is a different argument all together.

There is no right or wrong here. I was just unaware that you were looking at it from that perspective. I was referring to administration of IGF-1 alone.

 

[docj077]

It's also important to remember that all polypeptide hormones in milk will be broken down by the digestive tract by the numerous peptidases that are in the stomach and secreted by the pancreas.

For this very reason, people can not take insulin, growth hormone, or any other polypeptide hormone orally. Steroid hormones are a different story.

So, oral intake of growth hormone, IGF-1, insulin, and all other polypeptide hormones (there are a lot of them) will be prevented. On the other hand, diamino acid compounds like thyroxine can easily be taken orally.

I wish people would remember such facts when they start freaking out about what is in their food.

I will see if I can find the canadian report that proves that untrue especially in the presence of casien. rbgh increases IGF-1 by 20-30% while pasteurization increases IGF-1 by 70%.

So, what the hell are you talking about? There is no possible way that peptide hormones will survive passage through the digestive tract whole. I don't care what any study says with regards to increased serum IGF-1 after a meal. It's impossible. Pure and simple. IGF-1 will increase so as to antagonize insulin.

If IGF-1 is increased in serum after eating or drinking dairy products, the cause is not dietary absorption, but dietary influence.

Seriously, you can't even dilute IGF-1 powder without it losing its potency. How would you expect it to be absorbed after traveling through a highly acidic environment filled with peptidases?

Pure and simple? I am guessing you still believe cigarettes are good for people. hhmmm. :wink:


"......provides both clear evidence that IGF-1 survives digestion (Xian et al, 1995) and an explanation for why the oral IGF-1 feeding studies looked at by JECFA in 1992 had ambiguous results, as is discussed below. Both the Monsanto-sponsored and the Elanco-sponsored studies previously considered by JECFA involved feeding free rIGF-1 by itself to rats. Neither used IGF-1 associated with its binding proteins (IGFBPs). IGFBPs are resistant to acidic conditions and may enable IGF-1 to survive digestion in the stomach (Corps and Brown, 1987; Donovan and Odle, 1994). Furthermore, in these two previous studies, the free IGF-1 was not mixed with other constituents of milk, such as casein, which more recent evidence indicates protect it from digestion."



"The demonstration that IGF-1 survives digestion through the protective effects of casein makes irrelevant the argument that human saliva contains IGF-1 at levels greater than the quantities that would be consumed in milk. As the IGF-1 produced by salivary glands is free IGF-1, without the protective effect of casein, it is unlikely to survive digestion.

Two earlier oral feeding studiesone sponsored by Monsanto and one by Elancoconcluded that IGF-1 does not survive digestion. Those studies are not definitive because rats were given free IGF-1, without casein or other protective proteins. Thus one would not expect the IGF-1 to survive digestion in these studies. Even so, a careful review of the Monsanto study suggested that some small amount of the IGF-1 administered in this study survived digestion and affected the rats' growth rate (Hansen, 1993)."

Like I said, IGF-1 can not survive in the digestive system. Looking at it from the perspective of protective proteins that allow it to survive is a different argument all together. I am rather confused by the survival of some of the IGF-1. How do they know that the IGF-1 was exogenous and not endogenous production?

There is no right or wrong here. I was just unaware that you were looking at it from that perspective. I was referring to administration of IGF-1 alone.

 

[Bryan]

I fail to see how your example of humans not being the only animals to drink milk into adulthood makes sense. I do not see cats going around milking cows. No animal drinks milk into adulthood or seeks to do so except man. This is not to say other animals do not like the taste of milk as you pointed out in your example.

I'll explain it to you again: when other people (anti-milk faddists) make the statement that humans are the only animals to drink another species' milk (or drink milk into adulthood), my answer to them is SO WHAT?? That is totally irrelevant, because other animals WILL drink milk, if you make it available to them. So whether or not we are the only animals to drink milk into adulthood is completely irrelevant. Capiche?

Bryan

 

[Rintintin]

I have read things that say dairy products do aggrevate some forms of acne. I hadnt heard about it affecting hairloss though.

 

[sublime]

The US dairy association has a very strong lobby which ensures that headlines are always filled with glowing news about how great milk is for you.

You ever hear about the amount of puss and blood that's in that stuff? Or how about the fact that milk can kill cats due to the fact that they lack the ability to create lactase, which is an enzyme that allows the milk sugar lactose to be digested properly.

You want prostate cancer, drink milk. I find this study interesting as it infers calcium to be the culprit, which is really incorrect as it is the source of calcium that is the issue. And that would be milk. Once again the Dairy association could not have their products labeled as a cancer causing agent. Let's see a study on kale or other high calcium greens, it will be a different outcome.

http://www.fightprostatecancer.org/site ... le&id=7131

 

[bornthisway]

We're the only industrialized nation that hasn't banned the use of rBGH in produce animals.. there are numerous reasons linked to why it's bad for us.. clear example of the lobbyists keeping something that is bad for us in such a popular product. On a side note, organic milk sales have been rising steadily..

 

[powersam]

[quote="docj077":243f5]It's also important to remember that all polypeptide hormones in milk will be broken down by the digestive tract by the numerous peptidases that are in the stomach and secreted by the pancreas.

For this very reason, people can not take insulin, growth hormone, or any other polypeptide hormone orally. Steroid hormones are a different story.

So, oral intake of growth hormone, IGF-1, insulin, and all other polypeptide hormones (there are a lot of them) will be prevented. On the other hand, diamino acid compounds like thyroxine can easily be taken orally.

I wish people would remember such facts when they start freaking out about what is in their food.

I will see if I can find the canadian report that proves that untrue especially in the presence of casien. rbgh increases IGF-1 by 20-30% while pasteurization increases IGF-1 by 70%.

So, what the hell are you talking about? There is no possible way that peptide hormones will survive passage through the digestive tract whole. I don't care what any study says with regards to increased serum IGF-1 after a meal. It's impossible. Pure and simple. IGF-1 will increase so as to antagonize insulin.

If IGF-1 is increased in serum after eating or drinking dairy products, the cause is not dietary absorption, but dietary influence.

Seriously, you can't even dilute IGF-1 powder without it losing its potency. How would you expect it to be absorbed after traveling through a highly acidic environment filled with peptidases?

Pure and simple? I am guessing you still believe cigarettes are good for people. hhmmm. :wink:


"......provides both clear evidence that IGF-1 survives digestion (Xian et al, 1995) and an explanation for why the oral IGF-1 feeding studies looked at by JECFA in 1992 had ambiguous results, as is discussed below. Both the Monsanto-sponsored and the Elanco-sponsored studies previously considered by JECFA involved feeding free rIGF-1 by itself to rats. Neither used IGF-1 associated with its binding proteins (IGFBPs). IGFBPs are resistant to acidic conditions and may enable IGF-1 to survive digestion in the stomach (Corps and Brown, 1987; Donovan and Odle, 1994). Furthermore, in these two previous studies, the free IGF-1 was not mixed with other constituents of milk, such as casein, which more recent evidence indicates protect it from digestion."



"The demonstration that IGF-1 survives digestion through the protective effects of casein makes irrelevant the argument that human saliva contains IGF-1 at levels greater than the quantities that would be consumed in milk. As the IGF-1 produced by salivary glands is free IGF-1, without the protective effect of casein, it is unlikely to survive digestion.

Two earlier oral feeding studiesone sponsored by Monsanto and one by Elancoconcluded that IGF-1 does not survive digestion. Those studies are not definitive because rats were given free IGF-1, without casein or other protective proteins. Thus one would not expect the IGF-1 to survive digestion in these studies. Even so, a careful review of the Monsanto study suggested that some small amount of the IGF-1 administered in this study survived digestion and affected the rats' growth rate (Hansen, 1993)."

Like I said, IGF-1 can not survive in the digestive system. Looking at it from the perspective of protective proteins that allow it to survive is a different argument all together. I am rather confused by the survival of some of the IGF-1. How do they know that the IGF-1 was exogenous and not endogenous production?

There is no right or wrong here. I was just unaware that you were looking at it from that perspective. I was referring to administration of IGF-1 alone.

[/quote:243f5]

well i thought you were both talking about whether the IGF-1 in milk could get through the digestive system. this thread is about milk is it not?

 

[elguapo]

I just want to clarify to all...

The proper spelling of "capiche" is "capisce.

Glad I cleared that up. Now we may procede! =)

 

[Bryan]

I just want to clarify to all...

The proper spelling of "capiche" is "capisce.

Glad I cleared that up. Now we may procede! =)

The word "capiche" is a VERY VERY common alternate spelling of that word (there are several other alternate spellings, too), and is commonly used in American movies and pulp fiction, typically by gangster types. If you do a Google search on that specific spelling, you'll get 117,000 hits!! :freaked:

Now that we've cleared that up, we may procede! :wink:

 

[sublime]

powersam - It's all about milk.

 

[dresden]

I just want to clarify to all...

The proper spelling of "capiche" is "capisce.

Glad I cleared that up. Now we may procede! =)

The word "capiche" is a VERY VERY common alternate spelling of that word (there are several other alternate spellings, too), and is commonly used in American movies and pulp fiction, typically by gangster types. If you do a Google search on that specific spelling, you'll get 117,000 hits!! :freaked:

Now that we've cleared that up, we may procede! :wink:

How do you know in the movies it is spelled "capiche" and not "capisce"? both spellings sound the same.. And you get 4 340 000 hits on the right spelling.

 

[Bryan]

It's in screenplays! :wink:

 

[elguapo]

I feel like a douchebag for making that comment, and rightly so. Not only was a drunk, but I got a chance to speak some italian with an italian chick last night. Pretty cool, actually.

Carry on. =)

 

[tairian]

Well I don't see milk being the cause for acne or hair loss but it could make a bad situation worse, just like articles about how stress and diet cause hair loss, they may not be the root cause but they will make a bad situation worse.