Need help. The first stage of androgenic alopecia

[Micky_007]

minoxidil is a growth stimulant that doesn't treat the root cause. So unless you also take finasteride with it, it's essentially just putting a piece of tape over a leaky pipe, which will eventually burst

Yet there have been people who have maintained on Minoxidil alone or on Minoxidil + Microneedling without ever touching Finasteride.

As I mentioned above, new treatments are on the way so it's not like people need to worry about this hypothetical of needing a treatment to be effective for their entire lifetime or even the next 5 years.

People can be on Finasteride and it's not guaranteed to have any positive effect either on stopping hairloss.

It's a good approach to start off with the relatively safer treatment than throwing the whole kitchen sink at it like using Finasteride which blocks 70% of DHT, the second most important male hormone. If there's really no maintenance or sucess on Min + Microneedling then people can decide to use Finasteride after IMO.

 

[keepcoolmybabies]

Yet there have been people who have maintained on Minoxidil alone or on Minoxidil + Microneedling without ever touching Finasteride.

People can be on Finasteride and it's not guaranteed to have any positive effect either on stopping hairloss.

I'm sure it's possible. But their rate of balding probably wasn't very aggressive then if such results are truly longterm and not simply over a year or 2.

 

[Micky_007]

I'm sure it's possible. But their rate of balding probably wasn't very aggressive then if such results are truly longterm and not simply over a year or 2.

You can't say with such certainty because I know many people who speak highly of Minoxidil + Microneedling and have maintained for at least 3 years. Heading into 2022, we aren't going to even need something that's effective for more than around 2 to 3 years as new treatments are on the way.

 

[AlexCross]

You’re right in saying that minoxidil and finasteride are the better combination but in reality minoxidil gains are short lived and if you ever want to come off from applying twice a day / just get a bit lazy you will have one hell of a depressing shed so personally I would stick to building up to the 1mg finasteride dose and see how you get on with that.

Hmmm. I thought that if you take finasteride, then even after the abolition of minoxidil, the hair extensions will remain. after all, in theory, dihydrotestosterone will not interfere with their growth (in an ideal situation). at least on 1 and 2 stages.

 

[AlexCross]

Minoxidil on its own is usually weak, but using a Microneedling device once a week + Minoxidil topical Liquid is a whole lot more effective. Studies shown it was about 3 times more effective than Minoxidil alone.

Regarding DHT blockers or Finasteride/Dutasteride, I personally would recommend that you do not use those until you have tried Minoxidil + Microneedling for at least 6 months and are still losing hair/seeing no significant improvement or at least maintenance.

I say this because:

1) You said your hairloss is not so bad yet.
2) If you can avoid taking something that can very possibly cause negative side effects some of which could potentially be permanent, then you should.
3) People are talking about Minoxidil stopping working after stopping use of Minoxidil - to that I say, literally every non-surgical treatment we have will stop working after you stop treatment (including Finasteride/Dutasteride) - so might as well try the less dangerous treatments like Minoxidil + Microneedling.

Regarding vitamins, they are important, they won't stop your hairloss (unless the reason for your hairloss is primarily due to a vitamin deficiency) but it will help to strengthen hair and make it more healthy and grow faster. It's not a cure ofcourse but hair loss treatment requires a multi-faceted approach so making sure that you are taking all the essential vitamins are only a benefit. It's better to have it than not.

You can try Microneedling + Minoxidil 5% Topical Liquid for 6 months atleast, take your vitamins, do scalp massages (this doesn't stop hairloss but it does help with blood circulation to the hair follicles which is often overlooked) and also work out atleast 4 times a week, it also helps with getting blood circulation flowing everywhere and keeps your body running more efficiently.

If you don't see any maintenance atleast after 6 months, then you can consider using Finasteride if you decide to.

But hope is not gone, we're almost in 2022 and the company Kintor Pharmaceuticals should be releasing their drug called Pyrilutamide in 2023 which is said to be a more safe and effective alternative to the current hairloss treatments.

There's also quite a few treatments coming out not too long after that so it's not like you need to be thinking your current regimen for example Minoxidil + Microneedling needs to last you for even 5 years, when we are likely to see treatments in 2023/2024 like Pyrilutamide or Breezula, HairClone, etc.

You just need them to buy you about 3 to 4 years till Kintor Pharmaceuticals drug GT20029 comes out which is highly anticipated to be great treatment.

HairClone UK CEO said that they plan on starting treatment in their clinics and partner clinics in the UK early next year. That treatment supposedly will thicken and strengthen hair, provided there are still hairs and aren't too far gone which is quite interesting and a good step for maintenance whilst we wait for a cure.

But IMO, if we get treatments that provide solid maintenance + scarless surgery (verteporfin) + hair transplants = closest thing to a cure.

Yes, not everything is bad with my hair. They don't fall out much, but they get thinner. The doctor gave me the first stage and I was lucky that I noticed the problem on time. But my hair from birth is very thin and sparse, and therefore even my 2nd stage will look like the 3rd stage) But I still decided to take finasteride + minoxidil for insurance)

I agree about vitamins and massage. This is necessary in any case. However, there is not always time for massage. How much time should you spend on a head massage per day?

As for new methods of treatment. I have looked at many different forums in the last 2-3 weeks. Looked at old topics from 2009 and 2012, 2015. I saw a lot of topics about new drugs. But they are still not there. Many were cheating. Many did not pass the test. And all that we have for today is minoxidil, finasteride and dutasteride, as well as hair transplant from the back of the head. Therefore, I am skeptical about new methods of treatment and so far I do not hope for them.

 

[Ollie]

Hmmm. I thought that if you take finasteride, then even after the abolition of minoxidil, the hair extensions will remain. after all, in theory, dihydrotestosterone will not interfere with their growth (in an ideal situation). at least on 1 and 2 stages.

Unfortunately not. minoxidil gains can be great for some but once you stop even if you are on finasteride you will lose significant ground (the ground you gained purely from minoxidil anyway) . The other problem is minoxidil can seriously mess up your hair cycles . It puts a greater % of your hair in sync so it sheds all at once then grows all at once . It’s a lot of hassle for not much gain . minoxidil IMO is a very last resort .

 

[Micky_007]

Yes, not everything is bad with my hair. They don't fall out much, but they get thinner. The doctor gave me the first stage and I was lucky that I noticed the problem on time. But my hair from birth is very thin and sparse, and therefore even my 2nd stage will look like the 3rd stage) But I still decided to take finasteride + minoxidil for insurance)

I agree about vitamins and massage. This is necessary in any case. However, there is not always time for massage. How much time should you spend on a head massage per day?

As for new methods of treatment. I have looked at many different forums in the last 2-3 weeks. Looked at old topics from 2009 and 2012, 2015. I saw a lot of topics about new drugs. But they are still not there. Many were cheating. Many did not pass the test. And all that we have for today is minoxidil, finasteride and dutasteride, as well as hair transplant from the back of the head. Therefore, I am skeptical about new methods of treatment and so far I do not hope for them.

Remember, Minoxidil even in combination with Finasteride (provided you are a good responder to Finasteride) won't have much of a difference to your hair (I'm not talking about Finasteride, I'm talking about using Minoxidil without Microneedling)

Scalp massages should be done for at least 15 minutes every day. We all have 15 minutes in a day. The first few days will take much longer approximately 30 minutes as it takes more effort and time to loosen the scalp, but over a few days days you scalp will loosen a lot and so 15 minutes will be enough.

15 minutes once a day is fine, but ideally a session early in the morning, midday and at night is best.

But most people work during the day so the midday session is difficult to fit in unless it's a weekend, in which case morning and evening/night is best.

Watch these videos:

(for the scalp massage video, I personally ignore the other methods and only pay attention to the manual-hand massages)

 

[Norwoody]

There are reports of certain generics not being as effective in your hair. I myself got fucked with a generic, there is the possibility that it was all in my mind or the drug was identical to any other, however I reject this idea.

If you are struggling financially then try your luck with a cheap one but if you can afford it I'd play it safe with the official drug...

Your doctor is an opportunist. And you need to learn about hairloss enough so you're not taken advantage of. Do not buy his supplements lol.

Which one?

 

[DoctorHouse]

I'm sure it's possible. But their rate of balding probably wasn't very aggressive then if such results are truly longterm and not simply over a year or 2.

I agree with you. People who don't lose ground with minoxidil alone(or with microneedling) over a few years probably are balding at a snail's pace anyway. The minoxidil will give them a boost for a few years and then they will stay above baseline if their balding process is at a snail's pace. The problem is no one here can be sure what is going to happen if they stay on their treatments long term. In my case, I could have done nothing and I might very well be almost at the same place I am now after being on finasteride and minoxidil for over 16 years. The only people who know for sure are the people who stop their treatments for a year or more and watch their hair get dramatically worse and then recover it back when they go back on treatments.

 

[Norwoody]

A lot of people don't understand the difference between causes and effects of hair loss. The cause is not one straight shot. It isn't even "androgen sensitivity". Because that is caused by genes. So nothing treats the "root cause" at this point. The genes determine how the cell will respond to a particular situation, which is androgens binding to the androgen receptor. When an androgen binds, it causes transcription of those genes and exerts a particular effect. The type of androgen will determine what is transcribed. If DHT binds to the receptor, generally speaking, very "masculinizing" effects will be realized; and if the gene for hair loss is present, it can trigger a process where follicles are starved of their blood supply and eventually the scalp will become fibrotic. There are a cascade of "pathways" that are a part of this process, PGE2/PGD2, etc etc. Of course 5ARIs and AAs can mitigate the effects of the genes but they are not directly treating the "root cause", which is, again, the genes. One could argue that minoxidil and needling is an even more "direct" way of addressing the problem, since the bottom line is that blood flow is being restricted and ultimately the reason the follicles die. But I understand how some people view the AA side of things as preventing this process from occurring too. Again, the reality is that none of these treatments are direct, and all of the treatments that work obviously help maintain the nutrient supply to the follicle somewhere along the line as an end result. That is why 5ARIs/AAs AND minoxidil show exponential results when used in combination. If one treated the problem directly and one treated it indirectly then it would not work in synergy the way that it does. Of course a minoxidil user will fair better while adding AAs. But for those with MINOR hair loss, oral minoxidil may be just as powerful if not more powerful than finasteride and I think it's often overlooked as a standalone, or at least in conjunction with a topical AA, and may restore enough nutrient supply for the individual to thicken their hair. And of course those with moderate to severe hair loss will need more powerful treatments because it's all about NETTING the "swim against the current". Some people have a very strong current and they need to throw the kitchen sink at it. Others have a mild current and can use the "finasteride ore" or the "minoxidil ore". Obviously hair loss is progressive and eventually the current will pick up some, and some will get away with monotherapy, while others will have to get bigger and stronger ores. HRT is like getting a motorized boat - but it still does not stop the current - nothing can, until we find a way to address/hack/manipulate "the root cause" aka genes.