New Dermaroller Study; Thoughts, comments?

Status
Not open for further replies.

Youcandoit

Established Member
Reaction score
15
Gosh, it seems I've stumbled upon some vacuous intellectual cesspool. My take away from this site is that there are a bunch of illiterate buffoons with no background in research doing this and that to their scalp. Some people may be seeing results and that's fantastic. However, there's apparently no way to quantify how many people are seeing results, and how many are not (the results thread seems sparse). There are no experimental controls. Confirmation biases are strong and obvious. Counter-arguments, even if polite, mild, and entirely sensible, are quickly blanketed in a stream of nonsensical rants and personal insults. It seems, quite humorously, that some people here are on a power trip -- as if this forum or thread represented their personal kingdom, or something. Cheers, Internet! But I think I'll put my account back into dormancy.

This is not a funded experiment, it is a community trial, you act like we are a university of doctors, go away please, common sense and it's pure laziness if you can't take the time to go through posts, people like you make this thread hard to find results because you are looking for too much, it starts with you and a dermaroller, do it for 10 weeks then you can comment
 

albert

Established Member
My Regimen
Reaction score
185
Hi there! Hope you guys had a great new year start. Just reporting that I'm alive and kicking, but taking a rolling rest (2-3 weeks) since I'm spending holidays time with my family and can't roll. But hey, I'm still in and happy with the (slow) results so far. Will post pics in a few weeks again as usual :)
 

squeegee

Banned
Reaction score
132
BLAH BLAH BLAH...pasting a lot of nonsense in CAPS is not going to do S***.

1) Every single DRing thread has become a host for people patting each other on their backs and using abusive language to drive those away who do not get results. Just go the Results thread , NOT EVEN 1% of posts contain results. Everything else - never ending discussions. BTW, some members here get "amazing growth" on almost every alternative treatment they try - wonder why they r still bald. 21 PAGES OF DR RESULTS THREAD - You will assume there will be tens of results , but NO - You have to dig deep to find a single credible result and if you do, well they are either taken in different lighting or at different hair lengths or photos taken at different angles.

2) Scientific studies here are posted out of context. They build an army of fanatics and say that those who criticize them are dumb or representing vested interests. It is like those videos in youtube where you cut a person's speech in parts and make it sound something else by combining it together. You can make OBama say that " I am a republican" by doing this. If something actually works, you need not defend it in such a extreme fashion. PERIOD.

3)I wonder why timelines for getting results keep getting extended - first it was 4 months, then 8 months...in some time it will be 2 years , then 10 years.

4) People here say u r not wounding deep enough - seriously? a 1.5 mm needle no matter how u press hard will only go 1.5 mm deep...it will not go 5 mm deep as long as it is attached to ur DR.

5) People here use tons of topicals with DRing - how do u know any partial results u get r not due to application of those topical exclusively?

I am outta here and i will never check this thread again. I mean how far can it go? one day when these fanatics are thinking "oh i have full head of hair" , and then someone tells them "wait, you do not, your bald spot still looks the same" , then show to those people 500 pages of this thread and ur bloodied scalp and try convincing them dat u have had "amazing regrowth". All these insults will come in handy. But reality will come knocking on your "scalp" sooner or later. Now i know what the responses will be like. Bring on the abuses and insults. I will not be here to see them.

Just added you with fallicle to my black list. If you don't like it, don't comments. I don't care about your 2 cents. Go back to your soy isoflavones! LOL

- - - Updated - - -

Does your skin actually peel from DMSO alone?

I would not have thought that possible.

I have DMSO and yes, skin can peel like a mofo. It doesn't take much as well.

- - - Updated - - -

yes if you put your account into dormancy it will mach your hairfollicle thatr are dormant. lol



- - - Updated - - -

Let's get the train back on his rails.. this is awful with all the HLH talibans constantly bombarding the threads with their 2 cents.


image.png

image.png

Notice how they temple are still not grown yet?

image.png


- - - Updated - - -

Really interesting study with new anti-inflammatory Minoxidil:



Preparation and evaluation of a multimodal minoxidil microemulsion versus minoxidil alone in the treatment of androgenic alopecia of mixed etiology: a pilot study.

Sakr FM, Gado AM, Mohammed HR, Adam AN.
Author information


Abstract

BACKGROUND:

The variable success of topical minoxidil in the treatment of androgenic alopecia has led to the hypothesis that other pathways could mediate this form of hair loss, including infection and/or microinflammation of the hair follicles. In this study, we prepared a multimodal microemulsion comprising minoxidil (a dihydrotestosterone antagonist), diclofenac (a nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory agent), and tea tree oil (an anti-infective agent). We investigated the stability and physicochemical properties of this formulation, and its therapeutic efficacy compared with a formulation containing minoxidil alone in the treatment of androgenic alopecia.
METHODS:

We developed a multimodal oil/water (o/w) microemulsion, a formulation containing minoxidil alone, and another containing vehicle. A three-phase diagram was constructed to obtain the optimal concentrations of the selected oil, surfactant, and cosurfactant. Thirty-two men aged 18-30 years were randomized to apply 1 mL of microemulsion containing the multimodal formulation (formulation A, n = 11), minoxidil alone (formulation B, n = 11) or placebo (formulation C, n = 10) twice daily to the affected area for 32 weeks. Efficacy was evaluated by mean hair count, thickness, and weight on the targeted area of the scalp. Global photographs were taken, changes in the area of scalp coverage were assessed by patients and external investigators, and the benefits and safety of the study medications were evaluated. The physical stability of formula A was examined after a shelf storage period of 24 months.
RESULTS:

Formulation A achieved a significantly superior response than formulations B and C in terms of mean hair count (P < 0.001), mean hair weight (P < 0.001), and mean hair thickness (P < 0.05). A patient self-assessment questionnaire demonstrated that the multimodal minoxidil formulation significantly (P < 0.001) slowed hair loss, increased hair growth, and improved appearance, and showed no appreciable side effects, such as itching and/or inflammation of the scalp compared with the minoxidil alone and placebo formulations. These improvements were in agreement with the photographic assessments made by the investigators. Formula A was shown to be an o/w formulation with consistent pH, viscosity, specific gravity, and homogeneity, and was physically stable after 24 months of normal storage.
CONCLUSION:

A multimodal microemulsion comprising minoxidil, diclofenac, and tea tree oil was significantly superior to minoxidil alone and placebo in terms of stability, safety, and efficacy, and achieved an earlier response in the treatment of androgenic alopecia compared with minoxidil alone in this 32-week pilot study.

Click on the link for pics and complete study:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23807837
l
 

2young2retire

Experienced Member
Reaction score
163
squee can i?

if the bbq guy grew hair 4 months after the wound so theoretically i m gonna get more growth even if i stop now in four months from my heavy last wound or maybe now i am starting to improve and if thats the case then i am gonna have problem with all this hair mass on my norwood. i am gonna be a baby wolf/.
wolf1.jpg
 

squeegee

Banned
Reaction score
132
squee can i?

if the bbq guy grew hair 4 months after the wound so theoretically i m gonna get more growth even if i stop now in four months from my heavy last wound

I really don't know 2 young2retire.. Micro-needling even done "heavy" is not a big of a deal! It heals up in a week or so. The BBQ guy had success , because the wound was deep & slow to heal. That burn wound was no joke! We are talking a complete regeneration of the area. Micro-needling need constant stabbing to achieves the same results but with no scars possible. If the wounds are not done correctly, you will just create more fibrosis and scarification to the scalp which is no help at all!! Derma rolling is slow but really safe.


According to him: Bleeding is the key derma rolling but it is 100% safe even with a 3.0mm needles length:

"If you don't bleed, you won't get the results and that is the part that most people aren't willing to do!" pointed out Dr Desmond Fernandes, who has written numerous papers for medical publications on various plastic surgery procedures, methods of improved penetration and skin needling for collagen stimulation. Naturally, when the blood vessel is pricked, it causes bleeding and this releases the platelet cells inside the blood that carry a mechanism to clot up blood vessels. At the same time, it carries out a lot of growth factors.

Dr. Des Fernandez co-inventor of micro-needling.



http://files.kotisivukone.com/karl-l...gy2008_pci.pdf

http://owndoc.com/pdf/DermarollingScience.pdf

They were people experimenting the Follica method back in the days sanding their heads, they had some regrowth just like the chemical peels, but the problem lie deeper in the dermis.

http://www.hairsite.com/hair-loss/board_entry-id-38016.html

http://www.hairsite.com/hair-loss/board_entry-id-42485.html



 

2young2retire

Experienced Member
Reaction score
163
so are they any companies that will make a product minoxidil like this you report with antiinflamantory diclofenac and tea tree oil. what would be super awesome squeegee is to see the hydroxylase effect of this boosted minoxidil. i believe tea tree oil will even out or cancel completely the aging. we then afte a year of dermarolling will have a topical of each night with no aged skin sides to keep what we grew from wounds.

sounds like a plan.

- - - Updated - - -

or if we could make a topical in nanosolution to release it self slow and apply it once a week and contain this minoxidil,cb,emu oil,keto,nitric oxide, i am just dreaming.
 

squeegee

Banned
Reaction score
132
so are they any companies that will make a product minoxidil like this you report with antiinflamantory diclofenac and tea tree oil. what would be super awesome squeegee is to see the hydroxylase effect of this boosted minoxidil. i believe tea tree oil will even out or cancel completely the aging. we then afte a year of dermarolling will have a topical of each night with no aged skin sides to keep what we grew from wounds.

sounds like a plan.

- - - Updated - - -

or if we could make a topical in nanosolution to release it self slow and apply it once a week and contain this minoxidil,cb,emu oil,keto,nitric oxide, i am just dreaming.

Remember that study?

At least we had the balls to start something totally new!, we can still tweak or derma rolling regimen as we go. We can still brew our topical anti-inflammatory and do intervals.. nano solution could be an option as well. Use the derma-roller for deep absorption. 2 weeks on the anti-inflammatory/2 weeks on the micro-needling.




http://www.ijtrichology.com/article...;issue=2;spage=73;epage=76;aulast=Nirmal#ref6

Background: Mild perifollicular inflammation is seen in both androgenetic alopecia (Androgenetic Alopecia) cases and normal controls, whereas moderate or dense inflammation with concentric layers of collagen, is seen in Androgenetic Alopecia cases but only in very few normal controls, and may lessen the response to topical minoxidil. Moderate or dense lymphocytic inflammation and perifollicular fibrosis have poor hair growth following transplantation. Aim: The purpose of the study is to evaluate the perifollicular lymphocytic inflammation and fibrosis in Androgenetic Alopecia patients during follicular unit hair transplantation (FUT) and its comparison in normal controls. Materials and Methods: A total of 21 male patients with Androgenetic Alopecia and 7 matched controls participated in the study. Histopathological analysis of biopsy specimens from donor strip of patients during the hair transplantation and two 4 mm punch biopsies on controls were performed. Morphometric analysis was performed and perifollicular fibrosis was scored based on the width of the condensed collagen at the lower infundibulum and isthmus from 0 to 3. Perifollicular infiltrate was also scored 0-3 and a total score of 3 or more out of 6 was considered significant. Results: Nearly 76% of Androgenetic Alopecia patients had perifollicular fibrosis more than 50 μm at ×200 magnification. Almost 33.33% patients had moderate/dense perifollicular lymphocytic infiltrate whereas none of the controls had it. Total score in Androgenetic Alopecia cases was significantly higher than controls (P = 0.012) using Chi-square test. Out of 21 patients, 13 had a score of 3 or more and were followed-up with monthly treatment with intralesional steroids using a dermaroller. Conclusion: Histopathological evaluation of the donor area is a must during hair transplantation to evaluate the extent of perifollicular inflammation and achieve better results by following it up with treatment directed to decrease the inflammation.

Inflammation is the b**ch!
http://www.hairlosstalk.com/interac...8-Fibrosis-Inflammation-amp-Androgen-Alopecia

Figure 5: Post-transplant intralesional treatment with dermaroller and steroids.



- - - Updated - - -

Persistent is the key also.. that guy was using a 1.5mm here and there. Probably not even heavy an deep.. and got results from it. True pioneer back in the days.


http://www.hairlosstalk.com/interact/showthread.php/25910-Skin-Needling/page24


Wish I had better documented my journey. It's so illuminating rather than depending on memory alone. Anyhow, I managed to dig up a few photos. I wasn't always one normally inclined to take photographs.



Photo on left: April 2006: using finasteride orally and topically, minoxidil, retin-a... losing hair rapidly at the temples. Just prior to starting needling and dropping finasteride.

Photo on right: June 2008: two years later ... been off of finasteride for two years, using needling, minoxidil with most of the topicals mentioned in my posts. Hairline in the middle grew down a half an inch, right temple grew in fully, left lagging behind.




Photo on left: April 2006: using finasteride, minoxidil, retin-a. Just prior to starting needling and dropping finasteride.

Photo on right: August 2009 - three years later... been off of finasteride for three years, using just needling, minoxidil with most of the topicals mentioned in my posts. Both temples are fully grown with left slightly lagging, nice thick vellus defining the hairline. Just prior to my botched experiment with topical DIM. was the true pioneer of the 1.5mm. He probably wasn't going deep and heavy as well.. just constant stabbing here and there..
 

2young2retire

Experienced Member
Reaction score
163
DSCN2381.jpg a macro shoot of my crown top left side next to whirl shows at least to my eyes new hair shorter and thicker than others. what you think? if they grow more and more of them come i am cured
 

squeegee

Banned
Reaction score
132
View attachment 23243 a macro shoot of my crown top left side next to whirl shows at least to my eyes new hair shorter and thicker than others. what you think? if they grow more and more of them come i am cured

Really friggin cool in such short time-frame.
 

2young2retire

Experienced Member
Reaction score
163
yeah lets hope more fellas come.
Really friggin cool in such short time-frame.

- - - Updated - - -

food for thoughts.

the norwood pattern in AA is covered by a tendon .galea. while the hair tha stays in most of cases even on extreme norwoods is covered underneath by muscle.

so in medical they treat sickness of tendon called tendinitis by injecting PRP (which by luck is being also used in hairloss) and NSAIDS (which by luck niclofenac is an NSAID which squeegee posted a study of its adition together with tea tree oil and boosted kind of minoxidil against male pattern baldness couple posts back)

​so might it be we suffer from sickness of tendon galea on scalp and hairloss is a result of it? make the connection friends?
and here in my opinion wound healing inflamation is a hole different thing than chronic inflamation.chronic inflamation works against while the wound healing one remodels it all....


- - - Updated - - -

080506_scalp.jpg safe donor area is muscle. while norwood is tendon and muscle free

- - - Updated - - -

so by what squeegee sugested above i am gone kiss him cause this is the answer.

i am going to keep dermarolling wounding until i go to a sutisfactory point. monkey hairline if it is it is. then i am going to swim in antinflamatories. ketoconazole. emu oil. tee tre oil.prp injections and maybe some minoxidil. i love you all.

- - - Updated - - -

so the next step after we regrow from wound is to treat our baldness like we have tenonditis.

this would be a perfect formula.
nitric oxide injection.
vitamin e injection.-Vitamin E has been found to increase the activity of fibroblasts, leading to increased collagen fibrils and synthesis, which seems to speed up the regeneration and increase the regenerative capacity of tendons
prp injection.we already are aware of it.
shockwave therapy.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extracorporeal_shockwave_therapy http://www.shockwavetherapy.eu/
 

BeliefISKEY

Established Member
Reaction score
5
Gosh, it seems I've stumbled upon some vacuous intellectual cesspool. My take away from this site is that there are a bunch of illiterate buffoons with no background in research doing this and that to their scalp. Some people may be seeing results and that's fantastic. However, there's apparently no way to quantify how many people are seeing results, and how many are not (the results thread seems sparse). There are no experimental controls. Confirmation biases are strong and obvious. Counter-arguments, even if polite, mild, and entirely sensible, are quickly blanketed in a stream of nonsensical rants and personal insults. It seems, quite humorously, that some people here are on a power trip -- as if this forum or thread represented their personal kingdom, or something. Cheers, Internet! But I think I'll put my account back into dormancy.

Lol gtfo & don't come back.
 

bibz

Established Member
Reaction score
21
Wuuuut????? I'm in the famous 'SQUEEGEE HAIRLOSSTALK BLACKLIST' ?!???!!!?
...... Get a life brah, the 3.0mm 1582needles dermaroller in your *** is driving you crazy :uglylol:

- - - Updated - - -

"Go to Settings right top corner of your screen EDIT IGNORE LIST Left bottom corner ADD member: FredTheBelgian Thanks me Later."
I think that he doesn't see your posts anymore :sulkoff: lol
 

squeegee

Banned
Reaction score
132
[h=2]This message is hidden because FredTheBelgian is on your ignore list.[/h]
[h=2]This message is hidden because bibz is on your ignore list.[/h]
HAHAHAAHAH love that option!:band:
 

squeegee

Banned
Reaction score
132
but sqeegee disorders are controllable. what makes me worry about his situation is that he might have been group raped in childhood. fredthepesimistic little raped baldie b itch. loooooooooooooooooool.

------

LOL.. we're are just only here experimenting with micro-needling and getting results from it.. and all we get are insults,hates from positive results LOL. Man, I've been here for few years...you really need a thick skin from all the haters...It is like an amplified youtube comments section. People hate on success and new ideas.
 

2young2retire

Experienced Member
Reaction score
163
i believe he needs some councelling. i dont have the degree yet but from the depths of my heart i would like to help.

me-so tell me how you feel today?
fred-i feel down again,i feel ugly again,everybody bushes me.
me-it is totaly normal you look like a dip ****.

so at this point my individual will have to accept the problem.
 

2young2retire

Experienced Member
Reaction score
163
squee nice to meet you my name is john.you are right lets do no contact to heal from all this stupidity like i did with ex wifey.and remember no contact is for us not fo the belgian baldie to miss us.

- - - Updated - - -

now i have to go to work. first i will do some downtown cruise with my expensive car. and i am telling you. you can already distinguish the bush on my head through the smoked windows......
 

squeegee

Banned
Reaction score
132
squee nice to meet you my name is john.you are right lets do no contact to heal from all this stupidity like i did with ex wifey.and remember no contact is for us not fo the belgian baldie to miss us.

John! One day me and you will meet in person , have a good time and share stupid stuff! :pint: **** the haters..!
 

prolastic1110

New Member
Reaction score
1
Yep, that's me, and? What are you trying to do exactly squeegee?

Sure, meet in real life, you two really complete each other.

Beyond insults, saying I must have been group-raped as a child now. Your level of maturity never ceases to amaze me.



Sure, meet in real life, you two really complete each other.





Never give up on hope.. never underestimate resilience. **** the weaks. I live in the forward.

Your avatar makes me HUNGRY! lol
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top