New Studies Show Vit D Implicated In Hair Loss And Calcipotriol

[Jk1]

Bringing back an old thread with some new knowledge. It seems vit D is stored in adipose fat. And it's also this same fat that helps hair growth. People have tried injecting adipose fat into the scalp for male pattern baldness.

Could the suttle difference be all along lack of sunlight on the scalp causes a drop in scalp vit D in the adipose fat layer that then causes male pattern baldness. Hence supplementing with Vit D will not have this same effect after male pattern baldness has occured as the adipose layer is now gone.

 

[benjt2]

You know what's impaired in Androgenetic Alopecia? The Wnt/B-catenin pathway. You know what upregulates Wnt/B-catenin? Vitamin D (1).

You know what Androgenetic Alopecia is strongly related to? Prostate cancer. You know what protects against prostate cancer? Vitamin D (2).

You know what is inhibited in Androgenetic Alopecia? Apoptosis and proliferation of cells. You know what helps with that in several tissues? Vitamin D (just one example: 3).

You know what is found in Androgenetic Alopecia scalp? Calcification. Vitamin D (together with K) is a strong regulator of calcium metabolism (4).

You know what is locally but not systemically elevated in Androgenetic Alopecia, that hurts our hair through some weird cascade? DHT. You know what regulates tissue-local sex hormone production, including estrogen, progesterone, testosterone, and DHT? Vitamin D (5). Additionally, vitamin D deficiency is linked to PCOS (6) which has been named "the hormonal profile equivalent of Androgenetic Alopecia in females".

You know what is present in Androgenetic Alopecia in scalp? Chronic low-grade inflammation. You know what vitamin D regulates? Inflammation (7).

You know what is elevated in Androgenetic Alopecia in the scalp? TGF-b. You know what reduces TGF-b? Vitamin D (8, 9).

You know what is downregulated in Androgenetic Alopecia? IFG-1 (10). You know what helps against this? Vitamin D (11).

You know what is required for anagen? Vitamin D (13).

You know what is strongly reduced in Androgenetic Alopecia patients? Vitamin D (12).

 

[whatintheworld]

You know what's impaired in Androgenetic Alopecia? The Wnt/B-catenin pathway. You know what upregulates Wnt/B-catenin? Vitamin D (1).

You know what Androgenetic Alopecia is strongly related to? Prostate cancer. You know what protects against prostate cancer? Vitamin D (2).

You know what is inhibited in Androgenetic Alopecia? Apoptosis and proliferation of cells. You know what helps with that in several tissues? Vitamin D (just one example: 3).

You know what is found in Androgenetic Alopecia scalp? Calcification. Vitamin D (together with K) is a strong regulator of calcium metabolism (4).

You know what is locally but not systemically elevated in Androgenetic Alopecia, that hurts our hair through some weird cascade? DHT. You know what regulates tissue-local sex hormone production, including estrogen, progesterone, testosterone, and DHT? Vitamin D (5). Additionally, vitamin D deficiency is linked to PCOS (6) which has been named "the hormonal profile equivalent of Androgenetic Alopecia in females".

You know what is present in Androgenetic Alopecia in scalp? Chronic low-grade inflammation. You know what vitamin D regulates? Inflammation (7).

You know what is elevated in Androgenetic Alopecia in the scalp? TGF-b. You know what reduces TGF-b? Vitamin D (8, 9).

You know what is downregulated in Androgenetic Alopecia? IFG-1 (10). You know what helps against this? Vitamin D (11).

You know what is required for anagen? Vitamin D (13).

You know what is strongly reduced in Androgenetic Alopecia patients? Vitamin D (12).

Very interesting post. The first thing my blood test revealed when I found out I had aggressive androgenetic alopecia was low vitamin D levels. And I live in a sunny climate, and go outside a lot as well.

 

[benjt2]

I drink a half gallon of milk a day, so why am I bald?

For the same reason the majority of Chinese men in their 20s and 30s right now is going bald, whereas their parents' generation didn't go bald almost at all: Dairy and factory-farmed meat in big amounts. This is what the current generation does differently than their parents' generation - together with way more much time spent indoor. Hell, in China they even use umbrellas and sun screen on regular days to keep their skin pale.

The case of China shows one thing clearly: Androgenetic Alopecia is not purely genetic. The Chinese population does not mix with other ethnicities. Yet, in the course of just one generation, the time of onset shifted to decades earlier and general prevalence more than doubled. This clearly hints at lifestyle or environmental triggers (not causes!).

It's not a case of "either you get Androgenetic Alopecia or you don't". it's a case of "if you have a certain set of genes, then certain lifestyle and environmental factors will make you lose hair".

My personal take on this, by now, after reading up on this condition for 7 years: pro-inflammatory diets (mostly due to high amount of animal products, i.e. meat and dairy) with high energy density (messing with our sugar and carb metabolism, hence the connection to diabetes and heart disease which weakens apoptosis and cell renewal) are the cause of the chronic low-grade inflammation in the scalp (but not only there); the lack of anti-inflammatory factors present in previous generations but lacking in ours (such as vitamin D, but not only) prevents our body from getting this chronic inflammation under control.

When talking about Androgenetic Alopecia, many people thought there is a problem of balance in the scalp: DHT vs. estrogen, or 5aR vs. aromatase. By now, I think closer to the source of the cascade, there is another systemic (im)balance at play: pro-inflammatory factors (high-energy-density diet with way too many animal products) vs. anti-inflammatory factors (vitamin D, K and a few other things). As this is systemic (as shown by the impact on prostate and heart), the loss of hair on our scalp even makes sense when viewed through the lense of evolution: it signals a health issue.
DHT, by the way, is in several tissues part of the inflammatory response. Another piece of the puzzle supporting inflammation being closer to the source of the cascade, together with the presence of fibrosis.

I am fully aware that most forum members will completely disregard this theory. The more you read up about "statistical coincidences" between...
- diseases that occur often together with Androgenetic Alopecia (prostate cancer, heart disease, diabetes) which - what a surprise - share the same root causes (high-energy diet with too much meat and dairy and lack of anti-inflammatory agents like vitamin D, K)
- geographical distribution of Androgenetic Alopecia around the planet
- different generations
the more the theory of imbalance between pro-inflammatory diet vs. lack of anti-inflammatory factors makes sense.

By the way, search these forums for vitamin D success stories. There were a few, even including regrowth. Not a coincidence. In another thread I explained how I halted my hair loss (way too late at NW4) by changing my diet and adding vitamin D+K. I don't think I'll regrow anything. But I am certain I would be NW1 or NW2 instead of NW4 if I had followed that diet plus vit D+K already 10 years ago.


Edit: Just to make it clear, the triggers/accelerators for Androgenetic Alopecia are two and so if you want to get it under control you have to fix both. Just one is not enough. You have to both change your diet to strongly reduce diet-induced inflammation and sugar/carb-based issues (insulin resistance, reduced apoptosis, reduced cell renewal) and increase anti-inflammatory factors (like vitamin D) at the same time to halt this. Just upping vit D won't suffice. Just fixing your diet won't suffice. Fix diet and vitamin D intake both to halt Androgenetic Alopecia.

 

[benjt2]

It has nothing to do with dairy and meat. Metabolic syndrome is caused by carbs and sugars, not meat. The evidence for vitamin D is very scant. If it was the cause then you would expect to see a higher correlation between Androgenetic Alopecia and genes that affect VDR. Diet as a whole only affects the age of onset and severity of Androgenetic Alopecia per twin studies, and we're talking years not decades.

I am very convinced of the role of dairy and meat. Dairy and meat have no impact on metabolic syndrome, but they have big impact on other inflammation-mediated diseases and systemic inflammation markers. Just a few examples: 1, 2, but there are many more studies coming to similar conclusions. It might also be a matter of gut microbiome.

Edit: Dairy even messes with IGF-1 (3) and significantly with female sex hormone levels, including in men (4).

Edit 2:

In men aged 20 to 39 milk and cheese consumption correlate strongly with the incidence of testicular cancer. In countries where dairy is rarely consumed, Algeria being an example, testicular cancer is rare, while in Denmark and Switzerland, where cheese is eaten in abundance, testicular cancer rates are high. In Japan, prostate cancer was almost non-existent fifty years ago, but has risen in incidence since, paralleling an increase in dairy consumption.

If inflammation causes Androgenetic Alopecia, then why does inflammation(microneedling) cure Androgenetic Alopecia?

Because chronic inflammation and acute inflammation work differently. Acute inflammation has the phases of inflammation, cell death, inflammation reversal, regeneration (in the scalp: either naked skin or skin with hair follicles). Chronic inflammation never enters the anti-inflammatory and rebuild phases. No proper healing takes place, hence the perifollicular fibrosis.

Our scalp environment with Androgenetic Alopecia is a chronically inflamed environment. Microneedling induces acute inflammation which leads to regeneration which - given the right environment/signaling - is intended to create skin with follicles instead of just skin.



How would you explain the drastic change in prevalence and onset age of Androgenetic Alopecia in China?

 

[benjt2]

Unfortunately, you completely ignored the linked articles about meat and dairy in my last post. If you prefer to ignore them because it better fits your set of beliefs, that's your thing. For me, these changes in diet worked and there are many diseases correlated with Androgenetic Alopecia which are caused by animal product consumption (prostate cancer just one example). I obviously cannot prove the connection, but it is quite likely.
Unfortunately, you also completely ignored the more than 10 studies on vitamin D that I linked, just brushing it off - without any reason - as "it has nothing to do with Androgenetic Alopecia". Reasons, however, you gave none.

Regarding the changes in China:

A recent survey by the China Association of Health Promotion and Education reveals that China's hair loss population stands at a whopping 250 million, most of them between 20 and 40 years old.
Among this population, men accounted for 160 million – that's some 23 percent of Chinese men. The majority of them are reportedly starting to deal with hair loss at 30, two decades earlier than the previous generation.

It shouldn't be the case that baldness is more prevalent between 20 and 40 than in age groups above 40. Not at all. Onset now happens a whole two decades earlier than it used to.

Regarding the magnitude of change:

Baldness is becoming increasingly common among university students. According to a study at Tsinghua University in late 2017, 60 percent of students reported thinning hair and 40 percent claimed to notice receding hairlines.

A 2010 study from six Chinese cities found that fewer than 3% of men aged 18-29, and just over 13% of those in their 30s, experienced male pattern baldness.

I would consider these changes drastic. Prevalence in these age groups jumped from around 10% to above 50%.

And you know what researchers say?

"We published data (in 2002) showing an alarming increase in male pattern baldness in Asians," he said over the phone, naming diet as a key driver for the change.

I actually found a few days ago an article about the dietary changes of China in the last couple of decades. The biggest change was, by far, in consumption of animal products. If you want I'll try to find it.

 

[benjt2]

I ignore them because I'm tired of dealing with vegan propaganda, and I just can't be bothered to address it anymore. It's exhausting, they are the biggest liars, and people just take everything they say as fact. They think they're morally justified in doing or saying anything to get people to stop eating animals.

Peer-reviewed studies are "vegan propaganda"? In other words: Even if a study is peer-reviewed and has been quoted dozens of times, you won't believe it just because it doesn't fit with your personal views. Intentional selection bias at its finest. From your posts so far, I actually thought you are a more rationally, scientifically inclined person, but seems I was wrong. Well, I personally do not care what your diet is like - there is strong evidence, though, that consuming large amounts of meat and dairy are significant risk factors for different cancers and heart disease. If you prefer not to believe these studies, the only one with something to lose is you.
And, may I remind you: I do not even think that a purely vegan diet is the way to go for halting Androgenetic Alopecia. My diet includes fish (250g per week, corresponding to the officially recommended 8 ounces per week) and eggs (about 6 to 8 per week) too.

I didn't click the link, but the part you quoted only shows the percentage of students with thinning hair now, it doesn't tell us what that rate was in the past.

Again, you ignore all the other quotes I gave around it - because it suits your argument. You are obviously not here to discuss, you are here to dismiss and to "be right".


Some other studies relating vitamin D and Androgenetic Alopecia:

(Taken from "Assessment of vitamin D receptors in alopecia areata and androgenetic alopecia")
See how the upper bound of vitamin D receptor levels of Androgenetic Alopecia patients corresponds to the lower bound of values noticed in controls?

In this study, a woman with FPHL, the female version of Androgenetic Alopecia, regrew her hair just from vitamin D.

This study clearly shows that vitamin D levels are significantly lower in Androgenetic Alopecia patients than controls.

Apart from the three I mentioned now in this post, I would recommend you actually look into the 12 mechanisms and factors (calcification, IGF-1, TGF-b, Wnt/b-catenin, inflammation, geographic link of Androgenetic Alopecia prevalence) that are connected to both vitamin D and Androgenetic Alopecia at the same time and which I linked in my post above - and I would suggest actually reading and thinking. Unless, of course, your goal is to maintain a stance of "being right" for the sake of it and not be exposed to conflicting information or ideas.

If you want to discuss, actually arguing on the connections I pointed out themselves instead of making empty opinion statements would be more useful (unless, again, your goal is just to feel like you're right and not to actually discuss science - I guess feeling superior on a forum gives some people a boost they need when they don't get that in real life). If you prefer not to have a constructive conversation but would rather cherry-pick again, I'd wait for someone else to respond in a more productive and adult fashion.


Some regrowth success stories on vitamin D: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 and the study of the woman with FPHL I already linked above. There are way more out there.

 

[benjt2]

My claim is that Androgenetic Alopecia is multifactorial. Just like a lot of other diseases (cardiovascular, cancer) are multifactorial. Vitamin D deficiency is not the only cause. Diet is not the only cause. These two play together. Diet increases systemic inflammation (too high sugar & carb intake, too high animal product consumption) while vitamin D deficiency means that the anti-inflammatory factors are too weak. This leads to a strong imbalance between pro-inflammatory factors (sugar, carbs, dairy, meat) and lack of anti-inflammatory factors (primarily vitamin D) which, in turn, leads to the chronic inflammation of our scalps.

I think you won't argue the sugar and carb aspects here. I assume you also won't argue the chronic scalp inflammation and perifollicular fibrosis. The only things you don't agree with are the effects of dairy and meat (pro-inflammatory) and vitamin D (anti-inflammatory).

Mind you, the whole role of vitamin D in Androgenetic Alopecia is hardly new, these studies go back almost 20 years if you dig a bit through PubMed. This whole thread - if you will invest just a bit of time - is all about vitamin D and Androgenetic Alopecia. What I personally think is new is the multi-factorial view of pro-inflammatory dietary factors (not new per se) on the one hand and lack of vitamin D on the other (also not new per se) creating this long-term imbalance which leads to the well-studied chronic inflammation in the scalp. These two are major factors in Androgenetic Alopecia.

All this correlates extremely well with the changes in Chinese diet and Androgenetic Alopecia prevalence I cited and the geographic distribution of Androgenetic Alopecia. Or the other 12 connections I pointed out above, which I assume you still did not have a look at - like the rest of this thread, which is full of studies connecting vitamin D and Androgenetic Alopecia.

 

[benjt2]

Researchers already found causative connection between VDR and hair cycling in various studies, for example by producing VDR knockout mice and by selectively depriving mice of vit D. Just these interventions were enough to destroy hair growth; or rather, specifically, re-entering anagen. If I recall correctly, they also did in-vitro studies with vitamin D and human skin wound healing, where vitamin D strongly increased the chance for hair follicle remodeling instead of bald skin healing. As you ignore any link I post, I'll spare myself the effort now of actually finding the studies for you. Won't make a difference anyway.

Your points about body hair and body-wide inflammation are valid but apply to pretty much any reasoning for any mode of action behind Androgenetic Alopecia. This discussion was already there when everybody thought "it's just DHT". By the way, vitamin D is known to have very different effects on different kinds of tissue; in some tissues (just like DHT) even completely opposite ones.

If diet really plaid such a minor role, then why did onset of Androgenetic Alopecia shift 20 years on average in age in China? Why did prevalence in 20 to 40 year olds jump from 10 to more than 50%? You still haven't answered that. There are obviously lifestyle changes at play. I propose these are diet and vitamin D, together.

 

[waynakyo]

so basically low vitamin D is telling the top of the scalp to go bald so this poor kid absorb more sunlight.

 

[InBeforeTheCure]

The evidence for vitamin D is very scant. If it was the cause then you would expect to see a higher correlation between Androgenetic Alopecia and genes that affect VDR.

Exactly. Look at the top SNP associated with vitamin D level, which is this one. It's also associated with counts of certain immune system cells, height, etc. but has zero association with balding. Look at more of these variants - again no balding. The association between vitamin D measurement and balding is therefore almost certainly not causal, but due to confounding factors. The same seems to be true for metabolic syndrome and balding - probably another spurious correlation.

Mendelian randomization analysis is a more sophisticated version of this.

 

[coolio]

I believe that has increased in China, but I think internet pornography is the biggest factor in that. Excessive masturbation drastically changes your hormones, causes andrenal fatigue, and increases oxidative stress.

Do think teenage boys weren't jacking off like crazy before the internet?

Seriously?

 

[coolio]

Not for 12 hours at a time. Take a look at the addiction forums, it's a problem like never before. Have you not seen the study showing the refractory period is eliminated when presented with new mates? Kids before didn't have an unlimited stream of hardcore pornographic videos at their fingertips 24/7.

AFAIK the refractory period thing has never been shown to work with p**rn, only with real women.

(And I would wager that the phenomenon might hold up for a couple of additional real women. That's not the same thing as cumming dozens of times for dozens of hours. Your semen supply is not that big and your production is not that fast. The extra women aren't giving you more total c*m, they are giving you the ability to empty your stored supply faster.)

It was completely normal for teenage boys to jack off for hours at a time before the internet. I know, I was there, and so were my friends. Eventually you've got no semen to shoot even if you can keep an erection. Eventually the erection gets more difficult to keep and your skin just hurts from too much rubbing. All this is perfectly achievable with a few old playboy mags. If you don't have p**rn you still have potent memories of the hot girl in your math class the day before. At that age you can get horny looking at a hole in the wall.

The internet just provides a bigger stack of Playboy mags. It doesn't change the fundamentals of any of it.

The "problem like never before" is that some kids spend more hours of the day looking at p**rn. It doesn't raise the biological limits of what their bodies can do.


TLDR - teenage kids were horny before the internet.

 

[benjt2]

so basically low vitamin D is telling the top of the scalp to go bald so this poor kid absorb more sunlight.

I don't think baldness is an adaptation to increase vitamin D synthesis.

Maybe scalp hair serves the same purpose as expensive visual signals in the animal kingdom. Why did we lose all our fur except for scalp hair? Why not the scalp hair too? Why are men with baldness consistently rated as less attractive? Why are all of us here, on these forums? Because scalp hair is a signal with impact on attractiveness.

Loss of scalp hair in males is strongly associated with age, metabolic syndrome/diabetes, cardiovascular disease, and prostate cancer. In women, it is strongly associated with age, hormonal issues related to infertility (like PCOS) are iron deficiency. Thus it is a signal for these issues, too.

If scalp hair is indeed a signal of attractiveness and thus in extension of health, it makes sense that this signaling gene (keeping scalp hair) prevailed along with genes with a genetic preference on the side of females to actually select for this health marker. Just like peacock tails, fur quality, colorful patterning or any other expensive signal in the animal kingdom. That would also explain why scalp hair loss might be multifactorial - it should be hard to have perfect (NW1) hair. You need to have several factors right in order to be able to signal your good health. If one factor is unhealthy, you will lose hair at a slow pace; the more factors out of order or the more out of order one factor, the quicker your progression.

These are, of course, pure speculations. I personally think though that scalp hair (both male and female) is more of a health signal and baldness probably not an adaptation to generate more vitamin D.


All these speculations don't really matter though. What matters is only whether vitamin D plays a role in progression speed or not, no matter if for health signaling reasons or for environmental adaptation reasons.


I had another idea in the meantime: We know by now that the vitamin D receptor plays a role in anagen initiation and in the process which determines, during wound healing, whether skin should grow back bald or with hair (see, for one paper, here; there was a more recent one from 2019 or 2020 though with human skin as well).
On these forums, many people tried microneedling according to the Follica and the Dhurat protocols, me included (following Follica's). Most people, in fact, had no success and all healed skin grew back without hair (including on my head; I tried the follica protocol for a year without any success).
Maybe the missing link is vitamin D? If vitamin D greatly influences whether skin grows back bald or with hair during healing, maybe it needs to be elevated during the healing period after a microneedling session. Might also explain why there were many reports of people following Rob's scalp massage protocol who only saw success when combining vit D and scalp massages but who didn't get success on only one of these components.
Just an idea.

I'm considering upping my vit D intake to 4,000 IU a day and picking up Follica-style needling again; or, alternatively, Follica needling + topical vit D. Just to give this a try for a few months.

 

[waynakyo]

@benjt2 What I said is something I pulled out of my *** at the moment. The fact that it is gender specific (by and large) makes this theory not so credible.

Re-dermarolling, did you check whether you have dermatitis, since apparently it is not good to dermarol under such conditions. Did your scalp itch after dermarolling?

Also have you heard people applying D topically?

 

[inmyhead]

@benjt2 What I said is something I pulled out of my *** at the moment. The fact that it is gender specific (by and large) makes this theory not so credible.

Re-dermarolling, did you check whether you have dermatitis, since apparently it is not good to dermarol under such conditions. Did your scalp itch after dermarolling?

Also have you heard people applying D topically?

This theory is ridiculous, whenever someone proposes a theory, they should think about:
1. Why 5ARI work.
2. Why anti-androgens work.
3. Why it's almost always males who get male pattern baldness (That's why it's called male pattern baldness).

Without these three points, it just turns into RayPeat forum where everyone just says baldness has nothing to do with genetics and it's just you being unhealthy.

 

[benjt2]

@benjt2 What I said is something I pulled out of my *** at the moment. The fact that it is gender specific (by and large) makes this theory not so credible.

Re-dermarolling, did you check whether you have dermatitis, since apparently it is not good to dermarol under such conditions. Did your scalp itch after dermarolling?

Also have you heard people applying D topically?

Topical vitamin D was successfully used to treat other forms of baldness, including areata and Telogen Effluvium, and was very effective (s. for example here).

I also found this quote to be interesting:

Vitamin D is necessary for maintenance of the different vital functions in the body. Its role has been demonstrated in different diseases such as breast cancer, prostatic cancer, and cardiovascular diseases, as well as in different skin diseases such as psoriasis. It has been found that topical vitamin D analog in combination with steroids is superior to steroid alone in the management in psoriasis, which reflects the role of vitamin D in skin differentiation and proliferation process

I don't know of any studies which used topical vitamin D to treat Androgenetic Alopecia, though. Not going to try this on my own, will stick to the supplements for now. Already did my first Follica-like needling session today (but didn't quite manage, don't have any numbing creme here and the Follica protocol with my TBPHP pen is not so easy to replicate).

In all honesty, I am not very optimistic that vitamin D plus Follica-style needling is the magic combination which will suddenly give me regrowth. You would think that somebody would've already tried that. Then again, vitamin D was completely overlooked in medicine until a couple of years ago and even more so in Androgenetic Alopecia. Maybe no one thought it could be that, so no one tried it yet. Who knows. In a few months we will know more, I'll go with vitamin D at 4000 IU/d for 12 months now.

Current state: NW3 bald, strong diffuse vertex thinning in NW4, age 31.

My regimen right now looks as follows:
- minoxidil 5% once per day (except needling days)
- anti-inflammatory diet (adjusted vegan diet: no alcohol, strongly limited sugar, strongly limited carbs, limited grains, but added eggs and fish)
- Follica-style needling every two weeks

My new regimen, starting from today for (hopefully) 12 months:
- minoxidil 5% per day (except needling days)
- anti-inflammatory diet (adjusted vegan diet: no alcohol, strongly limited sugar, strongly limited carbs, limited grains, but added eggs and fish)
- Follica-style needling every two weeks
- vitamin D 4000 IU per day, split into once in the morning and once in the evening

This theory is ridiculous, whenever someone proposes a theory, they should think about:
1. Why 5ARI work.
2. Why anti-androgens work.
3. Why it's almost always males who get male pattern baldness (That's why it's called male pattern baldness).

Without these three points, it just turns into RayPeat forum where everyone just says baldness has nothing to do with genetics and it's just you being unhealthy.

I thought it was common knowledge by now that these questions are answered by the sex-specific differences in the immune system. The male immune system uses DHT in inflammatory responses in certain tissues much more than the female immune system does. If you take anti-androgens or 5ARIs, you are killing that part of the inflammatory response of the male immune system. See, for example, this article for sex differences in the immune system. This is also part of the reason why viruses affect men and women differently.
For the role of DHT in inflammatory response, see for example here and here.


Edit: Just thought of something. One of the best microneedling responders ever, Somebody/Alex, switched to a traveling lifesytyle (in Asia) at the same time as picking up needling. Maybe his move gave him way more vitamin D than he had before, hence explaining his results that most microneedlers never achieved?

 

[StayPositive]

Topical vitamin D was successfully used to treat other forms of baldness, including areata and Telogen Effluvium, and was very effective (s. for example here).

I also found this quote to be interesting:


I don't know of any studies which used topical vitamin D to treat Androgenetic Alopecia, though. Not going to try this on my own, will stick to the supplements for now. Already did my first Follica-like needling session today (but didn't quite manage, don't have any numbing creme here and the Follica protocol with my TBPHP pen is not so easy to replicate).

In all honesty, I am not very optimistic that vitamin D plus Follica-style needling is the magic combination which will suddenly give me regrowth. You would think that somebody would've already tried that. Then again, vitamin D was completely overlooked in medicine until a couple of years ago and even more so in Androgenetic Alopecia. Maybe no one thought it could be that, so no one tried it yet. Who knows. In a few months we will know more, I'll go with vitamin D at 4000 IU/d for 12 months now.

Current state: NW3 bald, strong diffuse vertex thinning in NW4, age 31.

My regimen right now looks as follows:
- minoxidil 5% once per day (except needling days)
- anti-inflammatory diet (adjusted vegan diet: no alcohol, strongly limited sugar, strongly limited carbs, limited grains, but added eggs and fish)
- Follica-style needling every two weeks

My new regimen, starting from today for (hopefully) 12 months:
- minoxidil 5% per day (except needling days)
- anti-inflammatory diet (adjusted vegan diet: no alcohol, strongly limited sugar, strongly limited carbs, limited grains, but added eggs and fish)
- Follica-style needling every two weeks
- vitamin D 4000 IU per day, split into once in the morning and once in the evening


I thought it was common knowledge by now that these questions are answered by the sex-specific differences in the immune system. The male immune system uses DHT in inflammatory responses in certain tissues much more than the female immune system does. If you take anti-androgens or 5ARIs, you are killing that part of the inflammatory response of the male immune system. See, for example, this article for sex differences in the immune system. This is also part of the reason why viruses affect men and women differently.
For the role of DHT in inflammatory response, see for example here and here.


Edit: Just thought of something. One of the best microneedling responders ever, Somebody/Alex, switched to a traveling lifesytyle (in Asia) at the same time as picking up needling. Maybe his move gave him way more vitamin D than he had before, hence explaining his results that most microneedlers never achieved?

I take a topical vitamin d (calcipotriol) for scalp psoriasis, and while it works wonder for my condition, it's doing nothing for male pattern baldness . And i apply it every day before bed. I am regular. It does not work for male pattern baldness

 

[StayPositive]

I won't argue most of it, I just think the role of all of it is minor. The major factor is AR sensitivity and DHT. Metabolic syndrome speeds that up somewhat, but the twin studies show that it's years not decades, and one norwood difference, not five. Diet-induced inflammation is minor, and not a concern. Only localized inflammation caused by skin disorders is a concern. It sure is funny that inflammation supposedly caused by high meat and dairy diets causes hair only on the top of your head to fall out, but not the rest of your body. According to your theory it should cause hair loss everywhere if the mechanism is inflammation, but it seems to be the opposite. Those with Androgenetic Alopecia tend to have more body hair. So inflammation is good for body hair, why? You're still confused about the difference between correlation and causation. Smokers have higher T levels than non-smokers. Does that mean smoking increases T, or that the type of people who are likely to smoke just happen to correlate with the same type of people who are likely to have higher T?

What do you think about doxycycline? It works wonder for rosacea and inflammatory acne at sub-antimicrobial doses(50mg max per day) . Do you think it can be helpful for male pattern baldness?

 

[benjt2]

I take a topical vitamin d (calcipotriol) for scalp psoriasis, and while it works wonder for my condition, it's doing nothing for male pattern baldness . And i apply it every day before bed. I am regular. It does not work for male pattern baldness

Since when do you apply it? What's the dose (mg, ml, concentration, IU - if you don't know, can you link the product and tell us how much of it you use per day)? How do you apply it and where? All over your scalp?