New Vpa+wounding Delivery Method From Ky Choi

[kingjohn]

There is one healing peptide that a lot of body builders are using and a lot of them are reporting hair growth and thickening, just by when they inject is subcutaneously once a week. It's TB500, or by its scientific name Thymosin-β. Thymosin has been associated with stimulating hair growth factors, and since it is involved in healing, it's not surprising. If these users are getting results by injecting it into their skin, which dilutes it across the entire body, just imagine if it were applied to the scalp after dermarolling. There's a 2015 study that linked Thymosin Beta with hair growth in mice... I can't link the study because my account is new but you can find it with its PMID: 26083021. It's called "Thymosin Beta-4 Induces Mouse Hair Growth". Unlike PTD-DMB, Thymosin Beta is available for purchase online right now, and it's really not that expensive at all. As of right now though I am not aware of anyone applying it to their head. I think someone mentioned the idea on a body building forum, but most people seem to be more interest in its benefits to bodybuilding.

Peptides are amazing because they're being utilized directly by the cell. The unfortunate thing is that PTD-DMB thread on Reddit didn't really seem to spark that much attention. Most of the peptides being discussed there are performance enhancing ones. Nevertheless there is interest. I think the big limiting factor now is just that not many people know about it.

good sh*t thanks man, just from a quick google search there seems to be some interesting stuff on thymosin b. surprised this avenue hasnt been explored yet as it seems it directly stimulates hair follicle stem cells to activate. hopefully someone here or on reddit contacts gang luo as he seemed fully onboard for making ptd dbm and has made stuff for a couple guys in the other thread that were tested to be pure

 

[Utrez]

good sh*t thanks man, just from a quick google search there seems to be some interesting stuff on thymosin b. surprised this avenue hasnt been explored yet as it seems it directly stimulates hair follicle stem cells to activate. hopefully someone here or on reddit contacts gang luo as he seemed fully onboard for making ptd dbm and has made stuff for a couple guys in the other thread that were tested to be pure

There's a number of peptide labs that could make it I'm sure. Since we know how many amino acids it has in the chain, a price can be approximated. For instance, in that reddit thread, the thread creator went over the potential pricing of it. At 1/10th of the dosage used in the PTD-DMB study, it would cost about $200/month, and that's if someone is getting it directly from the manufacture (not accounting for a distributing companies markup). In the study they had results in 28 days, so 1/10th dosage probably would still work just fine if used with microneedling over a period of several months. The guy could have the pricing wrong, because Thymosin Beta is almost double the size of PTD-DMB, so PTD-DMB would be cheaper than Thymosin.

I'd love to try Thymosin topically myself with microneedling, but my problem is I'm barley even a NW2 right now so there's not a lot of room for it to improve me. I'm just trying to be proactive with my scalp health at this point because every guy in my family has very noticeable thinning or balding.

 

[thetdog666]

Does anyone have knowledge on the mechanism of Valproic Acid? The study in question here is about Valproic Acid in dissolving microneedles. We should just be able to wound our scalps ourselves with dermaroller/pen and then use a dropper and apply Valproic Acid. So, it's not like we need to wait to do this, we can do this at home. Valproic Acid is a commercially available chemical, easily obtainable. Also I'd like to note... Valproic Acid =/= Sodium Valproate (Sodium Salt of Valproic Acid). If Valproic acid is having some enzyme modulating effect under the skin, the Sodium Salt would certainly have completely different properties. These differences wouldn't apply for the typical oral usage of Sodium Valproate/Valproic Acid, since Sodium Valproate converts to Valproic Acid in the stomach due to the stomach acid. I repeat... they are 2 completely different things for our purposes.

By the way guys, someone posted about the PTD-DMB peptide in the /r/peptides of Reddit. A few people there have reached out to a few laboratories to inquire about getting it synthesized. There are already tons of research peptides being sold by companies in the US... so really it's only a matter of time before they are selling PTD-DBM as well. Seriously, we're getting close. Give it a year or so and you'll likely be able to buy PTD-DBM online. Here's the thread in question (had to remove the period before com due to my new account restrictions:
reddit com/r/Peptides/comments/83sxex/peptide_ptddmb_deemed_the_cure_for_hair_loss/

The more support and enthusiasm this peptide gets, the more likely a Research Chemical/Peptide company is to jump on board and start selling it. They don't require any sort of FDA approval for this. We just need to demonstrate that the interest is there! Every person who voices their vocal support out this would be directly contributing to it coming to the market faster!

Any idea where i could obtain VA in the UK? I wouldnt mind giving it a try. Is it applies everyday along with microneedling?

 

[Utrez]

Any idea where i could obtain VA in the UK? I wouldnt mind giving it a try. Is it applies everyday along with microneedling?

I'm not sure how often it would be applied or the dosage, but I know they mention it in the study. Not a lot is needed. As far as I'm aware it's not a restricted chemical in the UK by any means, so you could probably have a UK chemical supplier order it for you, but expect to pay much more than the rate mentioned above. I'm sure you could order it from China as well, no problem. Based on brief research, it seems it sells for around $50-$120 USD per KG in China.... even 50g is probably more than a lifetime supply for one person. It's a very cheap molecule and easily commercially available, you'd just have to hunt around for a supplier.

 

[Seuxin]

i'm using Sodium Valproate....So you think i should use VPA instead of ???

 

[forlorn]

actually it should indeed be able to get your dead hair follicles back, ie follicular neogenesis. read the original study and/or the reddit discussion its exciting stuff. i dont disagree though that tsuji et al may be the holy grail

I'm talking about hair follicles that disappeared years ago. At that point they don't exist anymore subcutaneously. Otherwise, you would able to grow hair anywhere using this method and effectively render Tsuji's research null.

 

[HairCook]

I'm talking about hair follicles that disappeared years ago. At that point they don't exist anymore subcutaneously. Otherwise, you would able to grow hair anywhere using this method and effectively render Tsuji's research null.

Thats the entire point of neogenesis. The hf you are talking about those you can usually safe with finasteride+minoxidil.

 

[That Guy]

Meanwhile everyone is hyping to skies the potential release of a liposomal equol lotion with a weak theoretical basis and no reliable studies.

I said this the other day on the HLC blog:

A lot of people, maybe even most, just put all their faith into something sounds ideal rather than anything that has a strong theoretical basis with at least some science showing it is a worthwhile pursuit.

I don't think the "kitchen sink" approach is good when it comes to this sh*t. We can't just throw stuff at the wall and hope that something finally sticks.

 

[Murkey Thumb]

I said this the other day on the HLC blog:

A lot of people, maybe even most, just put all their faith into something sounds ideal rather than anything that has a strong theoretical basis with at least some science showing it is a worthwhile pursuit.

I don't think the "kitchen sink" approach is good when it comes to this sh*t. We can't just throw stuff at the wall and hope that something finally sticks.

Why not? There is enough people on here to do our own research and post results. I am currently way beyond thinking finasteride/minoxidil/RU will significantly improve the appearance of my hair. I will give anything ago as long as it wont either kill me or give me tits.

 

[Utrez]

I'm talking about hair follicles that disappeared years ago. At that point they don't exist anymore subcutaneously. Otherwise, you would able to grow hair anywhere using this method and effectively render Tsuji's research null.

There is no evidence any hair follicles ever disappear completely from being miniaturized. The reason blocking DHT and using Minoxidil doesn't often work for those extremely-progressed balding regions is because they are not addressing the root cause. DHT stops the Miniaturization, and Minoxidil helps improve bloodflow among other things, but neither of those really stimulate the hair growth pathways. Those only really work if the hair growth pathways still have some lingering activity in them, such as with recently lost-regions. Plus, we have to remember DHT isn't the direct cause of hair loss. People think DHT causes inflammation, but it's the opposite, DHT is an anti inflammatory, and is a response to inflammation. When too much inflammation is detected, that's when DHT shuts the cell down, presumably as a means of protection. Getting rid of DHT doesn't rid of the source issue.

That is where WNT pathway stimulating agents come in. They act directly to heal the area and to directly stimulate hair growth pathways. The WNT pathway is why girls don't experience pattern baldness. Estrogen helps to regulate and keep active the WNT pathway, and there's a lot of evidence proving this.

i'm using Sodium Valproate....So you think i should use VPA instead of ???

Yes I definitely think so. The two molecules have totally different acidity/basicity values and that alone can totally change mechanism of action, especially when it comes to sensitive cell environments. Edit: I appear to have found a study (PMID: 24533507) that says Sodium Valproate can also behave in a similar way, so maybe they both do work. However I would still go with Valproic Acid because in the Sodium Valproate study, they said hair thickness decreased, whereas in the study with Vaproic Acid, it increased.

 

[Jk1]

There is no evidence any hair follicles ever disappear completely from being miniaturized. The reason blocking DHT and using Minoxidil doesn't often work for those extremely-progressed balding regions is because they are not addressing the root cause. DHT stops the Miniaturization, and Minoxidil helps improve bloodflow among other things, but neither of those really stimulate the hair growth pathways. Those only really work if the hair growth pathways still have some lingering activity in them, such as with recently lost-regions. Plus, we have to remember DHT isn't the direct cause of hair loss. People think DHT causes inflammation, but it's the opposite, DHT is an anti inflammatory, and is a response to inflammation. When too much inflammation is detected, that's when DHT shuts the cell down, presumably as a means of protection. Getting rid of DHT doesn't rid of the source issue.

That is where WNT pathway stimulating agents come in. They act directly to heal the area and to directly stimulate hair growth pathways. The WNT pathway is why girls don't experience pattern baldness. Estrogen helps to regulate and keep active the WNT pathway, and there's a lot of evidence proving this.



Yes I definitely think so. The two molecules have totally different acidity/basicity values and that alone can totally change mechanism of action, especially when it comes to sensitive cell environments. Edit: I appear to have found a study (PMID: 24533507) that says Sodium Valproate can also behave in a similar way, so maybe they both do work. However I would still go with Valproic Acid because in the Sodium Valproate study, they said hair thickness decreased, whereas in the study with Vaproic Acid, it increased.

cant we just use valerian root oil ? which ia widely available , valproic acid is the synthetic analogue of it

http://www.anti-agingfirewalls.com/2010/09/07/valproic-acid-the-phoenix-drug-arises-again/

 

[Utrez]

cant we just use valerian root oil ? which ia widely available , valproic acid is the synthetic analogue of it

http://www.anti-agingfirewalls.com/2010/09/07/valproic-acid-the-phoenix-drug-arises-again/

Valerian root has Valoric Acid, of which Valproic is a derivative, so fundamentally the effects of these two with respect to hair could be entirely different. Plus, Valerian Root Oil and other essential oils have hundreds of different compounds, which for all we know could inhibit or enhance hairloss.

If wanting to obtain similar results to the study I would just go with Valproic Acid to best match their procedure. Truly healing our scalp/hair health in the long term can be a long process that can take a year before true recovery happens and show itself. It's just fundamental to how long hair takes to grow, it's cycles, and so on. Imo it's not worth wasting a year on something that may or may not work, when there's more available effective options. You know?

 

[Jk1]

Valerian root has Valoric Acid, of which Valproic is a derivative, so fundamentally the effects of these two with respect to hair could be entirely different. Plus, Valerian Root Oil and other essential oils have hundreds of different compounds, which for all we know could inhibit or enhance hairloss.

If wanting to obtain similar results to the study I would just go with Valproic Acid to best match their procedure. Truly healing our scalp/hair health in the long term can be a long process that can take a year before true recovery happens and show itself. It's just fundamental to how long hair takes to grow, it's cycles, and so on. Imo it's not worth wasting a year on something that may or may not work, when there's more available effective options. You know?

anyone have any online sources of valproic acid ?

 

[kiwipilu]

There is no evidence any hair follicles ever disappear completely from being miniaturized. The reason blocking DHT and using Minoxidil doesn't often work for those extremely-progressed balding regions is because they are not addressing the root cause. DHT stops the Miniaturization, and Minoxidil helps improve bloodflow among other things, but neither of those really stimulate the hair growth pathways. Those only really work if the hair growth pathways still have some lingering activity in them, such as with recently lost-regions. Plus, we have to remember DHT isn't the direct cause of hair loss. People think DHT causes inflammation, but it's the opposite, DHT is an anti inflammatory, and is a response to inflammation. When too much inflammation is detected, that's when DHT shuts the cell down, presumably as a means of protection. Getting rid of DHT doesn't rid of the source issue.

That is where WNT pathway stimulating agents come in. They act directly to heal the area and to directly stimulate hair growth pathways. The WNT pathway is why girls don't experience pattern baldness. Estrogen helps to regulate and keep active the WNT pathway, and there's a lot of evidence proving this.



Yes I definitely think so. The two molecules have totally different acidity/basicity values and that alone can totally change mechanism of action, especially when it comes to sensitive cell environments. Edit: I appear to have found a study (PMID: 24533507) that says Sodium Valproate can also behave in a similar way, so maybe they both do work. However I would still go with Valproic Acid because in the Sodium Valproate study, they said hair thickness decreased, whereas in the study with Vaproic Acid, it increased.

from the study:

"sodium valproate 8.3% twice daily (~0,8ml/each dose). VPA is highly soluble in water and stable at room temperature."

 

[Utrez]

from the study:

"sodium valproate 8.3% twice daily (~0,8ml/each dose). VPA is highly soluble in water and stable at room temperature."

I mentioned that, but keep reading the study. They also stated that even though more hairs seemed to appear in anagen, it did nothing to stop miniaturization. Whereas in the study with Valproic Acid, hair strands became thicker. Granted, in the latter study they used microneedles to increase the depth, and in the former study they speculated that the continuing miniaturization could have been caused by seasonal temperature changes, that would only be able to be confirmed with a more long term study.

Based on this, I would still place my bets on Valproic Acid.

 

[joni106]

So friends,
What is now the best topical material available to put immediately after wounding?
and have potential tol create new hair follicles combined with the microneedling.

 

[Arrade]

So is anyone using Valprioc Acid topically? Seems people paying all this for Seti, somebody would be trying Valproic
I'm not really seeing an applicable take-away. Just research that doesn't have a product out

 

[That Guy]

Why not?

Because it is a waste of time, money, and perhaps most importantly: Research.

Some of this sh*t in the pipeline has little to no scientific support to suggest it will work or in some cases, evidence that it won't.

The biggest of course being JAK Inhibitors. Yeah, they work well for AA, but we've already seen that patients who also have Androgenetic Alopecia don't recover from that along with it. Neil Walker's excuse is that a topical will be able to reach the follicle, but as Swoop pointed out and cited studies on here numerous times, that claim is pure bullshit. Drugs have no problem reaching the outer layers of the skin; including JAK inhibs.

Also, not one person can put forth a sound theoretical basis for why JAKs would work for Androgenetic Alopecia. Every time you ask, you just get hit with a ton of personal attacks and dodging the question. Nasa_rs, the biggest JAK fan on the web's reasoning for why he thinks it will be the cure is, and I'm not kidding "Works for AA, might as well work for Androgenetic Alopecia" because that's totally how it works lol.

So it's a near guarantee that Aclaris' trials for it on Androgenetic Alopecia will fail miserably. But here they are, pouring funding, time and manpower into something that could've gone to something else that actually is worth it.

Tsuji, Follica, Replicel, I guess this Choi dude, and others like them are, over about 100 years, the only types of methods that have proved themselves to be relevant, promising therapies for treating Androgenetic Alopecia and we'd all be better off if more companies investigated similar methods.

 

[Seuxin]

If you want VPA or Sodium Valproate, i know a lab in china who can sell you....
You can contact her my mail at : gksales4@guokang8286.com.cn (->His name : Katherine).
I bought a lot of thing on here like : Adenosine powder, Tretinoin powder, Sodium valproat, VPA, Methyl Vaniliate,etc.....

 

[Seuxin]

There is no evidence any hair follicles ever disappear completely from being miniaturized. The reason blocking DHT and using Minoxidil doesn't often work for those extremely-progressed balding regions is because they are not addressing the root cause. DHT stops the Miniaturization, and Minoxidil helps improve bloodflow among other things, but neither of those really stimulate the hair growth pathways. Those only really work if the hair growth pathways still have some lingering activity in them, such as with recently lost-regions. Plus, we have to remember DHT isn't the direct cause of hair loss. People think DHT causes inflammation, but it's the opposite, DHT is an anti inflammatory, and is a response to inflammation. When too much inflammation is detected, that's when DHT shuts the cell down, presumably as a means of protection. Getting rid of DHT doesn't rid of the source issue.

That is where WNT pathway stimulating agents come in. They act directly to heal the area and to directly stimulate hair growth pathways. The WNT pathway is why girls don't experience pattern baldness. Estrogen helps to regulate and keep active the WNT pathway, and there's a lot of evidence proving this.



Yes I definitely think so. The two molecules have totally different acidity/basicity values and that alone can totally change mechanism of action, especially when it comes to sensitive cell environments. Edit: I appear to have found a study (PMID: 24533507) that says Sodium Valproate can also behave in a similar way, so maybe they both do work. However I would still go with Valproic Acid because in the Sodium Valproate study, they said hair thickness decreased, whereas in the study with Vaproic Acid, it increased.

I can re-order VPA...But have to reflect about quantity to use..I can mix it in stemox for example...