hey caspers,
nice to have a civlized debate with someone who doesnt agree with me on exactly everything, but doesnt start shouting and calling me an idiot like many on the right tend to do. i havent read all of what you wrote yet, but in regards to the social security numbers you threw out-
heres some more info to actually think about:
By conservatives insisting on making the 2001-2003 tax cuts permanent despite cost-benefit analysis, over the next 75 years the changes are projected to actually cost 11 trillion dollars dwarfing the 4 trillion dollars it would actually cost to fully fund social security.
The tax reductions are so skewed toward the upper income brackets, that it actually lessens their stimulative effect.
Our leaders will not start respecting each other until we as a people start talking to each other in a civilized
manner. I think most of us could sit in a bar somewhere and drink some beer while we watch Monday Night
Football and disagree on the teams without dis-respecting the other person. Why can't that happen again in
politics? I say it's our leaders.
Yeah, and ain't it just AWFUL that somebody who makes, for example, a million bucks a year before taxes would be forced to scrape-by with only (say) HALF a million bucks or less? Shocking! APPALLING, I say!
You're missing the point. Those guys are not for the most part blowing that extra 500 K profit on their
rich lifestyle. For the most part it goes back into their business and creates new income. You will find that
people that get to that level of income did not do it living lavishly. They did it through hard work
and living cheaply. As a business owner when you have a 500K profit you want to re-invest that money to
make the business grow so the next year you have $750K profit, and on and on. For so many small
business owners it's not about what you can buy, it's what you can build and how you can make
your business grow. That is why Obama's tax ideas are so wrong. Low income earners might get a break on
their taxes but one in ten of you won't have a job anymore.
Let me give you another example. I have a friend that has a business that employs about ten people. He
tells me that he has looked at Obama's changes in depth and he thinks taxes are going to cost him about 10%
more under Obama. And he says if that happens he will just layoff one employee to cover the 10% increase
in taxes. That will happen over and over in big business's and small. and un-employment will rise while tax
revenues will stay the same. In hard times business's will always take the quick route to expense reduction
and that is always a reduction of labor costs. Add that too the already weak business climate and you will see
unemployment soar under Obama.
I want to point out something else about the Bush's handling of the economy. When he took over in 2000
the market was already tanking, the NASDAQ had basically crashed and his policies and Greenspan's delayed the
inevitable meltdown of the economy. I think the economy was going to tank anyway, they were just able to
delay it for a few years. Look, the US government has grown to enormous proportions since the seventies
mostly dealing with the cold war and Iraq. Computers saved the economy in the eighties, the internet in the
nineties, and consumer debt spending fueled by the run up in house pricing and easy credit in the 2000's.
People need to realize that the days of easy to get and almost free money are gone for a LONG time. The
consumer is dead and that portion of the economy is just starting to die. Next year will be the worst that
many of us have ever experienced. Jobs will be lost in huge chunks, credit cards will start to default just like
the sub-prime loans before them. Housing will continue to tank in the areas where it had run up the most. Higher
quality mortgage holders will start to be effected. All the statistics will indicate we are in a depression by
the end of next year. But it would ave happended anyway under a democratic regime. It's simply the
free market business cycle.
I was talking about business issues this weekend and a friend of mine asked me why I
almost sound happy about this. It's because I believe in free markets. And I believe that with the coming
turmoil comes ENORMOUS opportunities for the transfer of wealth from the most successful in the past to a new
wave of risk takers and entrepreneurs. There were more millions made after the crash of 1929
than were destroyed during. Market mayhem levels the playing field and even tilts in the favor of
the small guys. The business cycle will wash out those old business's that have grown bloated
and in-efficient and bring new ventures up from nothing. Many of these have yet to be started, but are
being planned right now. Planned by ordinary people that see what is happening and that have a deep
desire to grab a share of it. People that realize it's not what you have right now, it's not what your education
is. It's people that realize it's how bad you want it that makes a difference. I've never been more excited about
my future prospects that I am right now. Yes there will be lean times for all of us. But if recognize it for what
it is you will not only survive it but prosper. But it won't happen sitting on your butt, thinking I wish I could
do that. Start taking risks, quit your job, start a business. Do whatever it takes to get in the game and don't
sit out the coming opportunities on the sidelines.
Your probably thinking that I'm one of those rich guys. I do own a small business and I've done ok for many
years. And I've paid a lot of taxes. But I'm not rich by any means. I do have the free time now, after working
12 hours days with no vacations for many, many years to hang out here posting crap. And I spend a lot of time
thinking about how to profit from the future. But I have that free time because the economy is not what it has
been and because of the economy and because of the coming tax increases it's likely my business will fail in
2009. But just like when I started my business there will be some new opportunity that comes up and I just hope
I still have the balls and drive to grab it.
You can't give the lower income earners a break that's not at the expense of high earners. Given the amount of revenue required by the government, you simply have to bite the bullet and admit that we _must_ have something more progressive than a true flat tax.
I clearly understand that the tax system will never be totally fair, but I feel there are varying levels of fairness
and Obama's plan clearly misses the mark. His pendulum swings too far the other way.
Somehow as a country, a united country and a united people, we need to find ways to agree and compromise
on many of these issues because if we do not our future generations will not have the good times that
we had. Over all the last thirty years has been the most successful in our countries history and we need
to find ways to make that success continue. And I need to add that success has come under Democratic
and Republican leadership. And we have succeeded not because of the politicians and their leadership but in
spite of them and their corrupt ways.
I think we should care very little about McCain or Obama and start talking about how to take back our
country from Washington. That should be the real goal for the next four years of every American. But
the pessimistic side of me sees more of the same and I guess I feel we get the leadership we deserve
because we don't demand better.
