Oxygen - A Potential Cure ??

[DammitLetMeIn]

male pattern baldness tissue is deoxygenated according to this because of the position it is on your head:

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/ ... i_19622618

Renowned raw meat eater and guru Aajonus Vonderplanitz lists the reason for balding:

Balding: is the rapid or gradual loss of hair growth, usually occurring from poor oxygen utilization and poor thyroid function.

Thousands of people follow Vonderplanitz methods. Here is an interview with Aajonus Vonderplanitz so you get an idea of what he is about:

http://drbass.com/aajonus.html

Anyways, his cure is to drink naturally carbonated waters to get oxygen into the bloodstream and thus get the nutrients to follicles.

It makes sense because:

- people with bald heads have circulatory/heart problems

- smoking increases hair loss due to deprivation of oxygen

- various cures have been mooted such as ginseng, garlic cure which are all aimed at increasing circulation

- oxygen in the blood helps to transport nutrients

- As you get older, circulation decreases, hence more people get bald

- Bear in mind oxygen is needed for the normal functioning of every cell in the body

- stress restricts blood flow and hence oxygen to the head

- People who are low in iron lose hair gradually/quickly because low iron reduces the oxygen carrying capacity of the cells http://health.families.com/blog/low-iro ... -hair-loss

- iron is the most common nutrient deificiency in the world, even more so now that many people have shunned red meat

- low iron can cause rapid miniaturisation of hair

- possible that the horse-shoe shape isn't down to testosterone but instead a decreased access of blood flow to that area. After all, the horseshoe shape can be seen in telogen effluvium.

Could naturally carbonated waters be the answer? Aajonus claims his methods are tried and tested. Given, it sounds kind of simple, but who's tried it to say it doesn't work?

Thoughts?

 

[michael barry]

as androgens (especially dht) are uptaken at androgen receptor sites at the base of the dermal papilla, negative growth factors like FGF-5 and thrombospondin, and TGF-beta get released by dermal papilla cells to the rest of the follicle. These negative growth factors slow cellular growth in keratinocyte cells, epilitheal cells, root sheath cells, etc.

For some unknown reason, in many people the immune system begins to see the follicle as a 'foreign body' and begins to attack it. Excess T-cells cluster around the base of the follicle, and direct and immuno attack which includes superoxides that damage the MICROCAPILLARIES THAT FEED THE HAIR FOLLICE, and shrinks them and inhibits their regrowth after the next shedding phase in which they have to regenerate to re-meet the follicle. Inflammatory cytokines like IL-1, TNF-alpha, Protien Kinease C, TGF-beta are "sent" at the follicle in many cases, causing inflammatation and redness of the scalp. Excessive collagen deposoition happens in the outer root sheath and collageneous streamers appear underneath the follicle, blocking its downward migration during the next anagen phase, keeping it up too high in the dermis to really grow a big hair. A miniaturized hair is the result.


The microcapillaries get damaged by the inflammatory cytokines and superoxides (main "ager" in the body) over time and shrivel up a great deal, thus bringing less nutrition to the follicle and thus 'starving' it for good nutrition to an extent.


PO2 tests, and the lack of oxygen reflect these effects of damaged, shrunken microcapillaries over time.d INcreasing nitric-oxide release (like minoxidil does) can help these follicles grow big again and help feed the starving follicles to an extent.

 

[DammitLetMeIn]

Isn't it possible that the inflammatory response doesn't start to occur until after the follicle has been starved?

An, that if bloodflow/circulation was maintained, the inflammatory response would never occur?

bear in mind these tests usually take place after the person is balding?

Plus, whose to say your science is right? there were plenty of studies years ago saying smoking didn't cause cancer?

Bear in mind, miniaturised hair can result from a lack of copper/iron and vitamin B12

 

[Bertie]

You should really take some time to read the considerable archives of this and other forums before posting all this. Hardly anything you are writing is new.

To give you just one among many arguments --

One of the strongest counters against many "alternative" theories is so-called "donor dominance," that is, in a hair transplant, hairs moved from the side to the top of the head maintain the non-balding characteristics of the side (or "donor") area -- for life. Theories based on the circulatory system (or the lymphatic system, or demodex mites) have a very hard time explaining why this would be so, as the hairs transplanted to the top of the scalp in the alternative theory would also be starved of blood (or inhibited by contact with a swollen lymphatic system, or eated by demodex).

The "standard" genetic theory does not have this problem, as it holds that hair follicles in different places in the body are coded to have different responses to male hormones, and in some men, the follicles on the top of the head are coded to have a negative response to male hormones.

Like I said, there's plenty more of this out there -- use the search feature.

 

[DammitLetMeIn]

You should really take some time to read the considerable archives of this and other forums before posting all this. Hardly anything you are writing is new.

To give you just one among many arguments --

One of the strongest counters against many "alternative" theories is so-called "donor dominance," that is, in a hair transplant, hairs moved from the side to the top of the head maintain the non-balding characteristics of the side (or "donor") area -- for life. Theories based on the circulatory system (or the lymphatic system, or demodex mites) have a very hard time explaining why this would be so, as the hairs transplanted to the top of the scalp in the alternative theory would also be starved of blood (or inhibited by contact with a swollen lymphatic system, or eated by demodex).

The "standard" genetic theory does not have this problem, as it holds that hair follicles in different places in the body are coded to have different responses to male hormones, and in some men, the follicles on the top of the head are coded to have a negative response to male hormones.

Like I said, there's plenty more of this out there -- use the search feature.

perhaps the pathways/blood vessels leading to the follicles on the side of the head are stronger, that is, easier to get circulation to?

 

[S Foote.]

You should really take some time to read the considerable archives of this and other forums before posting all this. Hardly anything you are writing is new.

To give you just one among many arguments --

One of the strongest counters against many "alternative" theories is so-called "donor dominance," that is, in a hair transplant, hairs moved from the side to the top of the head maintain the non-balding characteristics of the side (or "donor") area -- for life.

With respect, the modern body of evidence clearly shows the old donor dominance assumptions wrong.

When the early transplantation studies were done, it was quite logical to believe from the results that follicles were geneticaly different in the way they responded to androgens.

But since then, significant evidence has come to light against the old donor dominance idea.

Firstly there is the whole modern industry involved in repairing old style transplant procedures were the hair has certainly "NOT" lasted for life!

The most common pattern of loss in the older type grafts, is due to a long term balding of these grafts from the center outwards untill there is only a ring of hair left around the edges. This is called "doughnutting" for obvious reasons.

http://www.hairtransplantadviser.org/fallacies.htm

The excuse offered by the "industry" for this kind of loss patern, is clearly dis-proven by the hard studies we have involving the old larger grafts, as i have shown here before.

Then there is the latest studies involving body hair to scalp transplants, and the changes to this growth that the donor dominance assumption cannot explain. Michael has a lot of links to this, here is just one.

http://www.dhi.gr/images/pdf/bht.pdf


S Foote.

 

[mjd50]

s. foote and michael barry. I have read your informative posts before although i do not always know ehough science to follow. my question to you is do you feel that hm will work or do you think there will be problems like doughnutting etc. ?? not trying to steer this thread in another direction just curious. the oxygen info is interesting.

 

[michael barry]

Dammitletmein,

I want you to take a look at some of these pictures of regrowth. Here is Martin, from the hairlosstalk photogallery. He used "the big three of propecia, nizoral shampoo every three days (leave in for a couple of minutes), and minoxidil

http://hairlosstalk.com/photogallery/pgmartin3.htm


Pretty impressive isn't it? He cut DHT with propecia, he intefered with androgens binding with receptor sites with the keotoconazale shampoo used every third day (keto is detectable 72 hours in the scalp after usage, so its not necessary to use it more), and minoxidil as a growth stimulant that probably interferes with TGF_beta expression, and fights the hardening of collagen fibers in the connective tissue sheath and probably somewhat inhibits the collageneous streamers and their develpoment under the follicle. minoxidil is also a weak prostaglandin analogue, and intereferes with extremely inflammatory prostaglandins like latanaprost does.


Now look at Bryan Shelton's almost two year results with prox-n alone............[url]http://hairlosstalk.co ... gbryan.htm[/url]
Bryan wasn't using any anti-androgens at all. Prox-n was developed by Peter proctor as a topical that attempted to counteract the immuno attack against the follicle. He uses spin traps and SOD's which attempt to foist inflammatory cytokines from being able to form (he told me that in an email). He puts a stimulant thats a kind of "natural" minoxidil in the product as well as another stimulant, abscorbyl plamitate and another anti-oxidant, BHT.


Dammitletmein,
Roxythromicyn, a immunosuppressant, is in clinical trials for baldness AS A TOPICAL right now. It was somewhat effective on 8 of 12 men who put it on topically in pre-clinical trials. All it basically does in inhibit T-cells from being able to tell the immune system that something is amiss up there on your scalp, its anti-microbial and anti-bacterial, it also inhibits TNF-alpha, one of the inflammatory cytokines. Its in trials, and somebody is paying for those trials, so someone thinks it works and the reasoning behind it.



Scalp biopsies of old, aged, bald scalp reveal that capillaries arent' there in abundance as compared with hirisute scalp at all. Dr. Peter Proctor, inventor of prox-n, wrote that baldness resembles organ rejection through a microscope and that cyclopsorin, an internal immunosuppressant used for organ rejection, is the most effective thing for preventing it and GROWING BACK SOME HAIR........................even more than anti-androgens like finasteride and propecia.



Dammitletmein,
Beleive what you want to about baldness man..............
But I'll tell you this, if you take finasteride, shampoo with nizoral every third day, and use a copper peptide product like either tricomin or prox-N, you should keep what you have up there for a very long while. If you want it to last even longer, add topical spironolactone cream twice a day. There will be a "shed" after one or two months, then your hair will come back stronger and you will keep it. The only other things PROVEN to help are minoxidil and retin-A. I suggest taking curcumin extract (read docj077's posts) and grape seed extract and taking MSM, and getting a good amount of vitamin C also. You might make sure your diet contains silica and a generous amount of the B-complex vitamins. Youd be helping inhibit the inflammatory cytokines shown to be involved with baldness in Dr. Hideo Uno's HISTOPATHOLOGY OF BALDNESS, attempting to counter the immuno attack, blocking androgen receptors, inhbiting five alpha reductase enzymes from making DHT, upping vegf, and getting hair-healthy nutrition to the follicle. Thats about the best you can do at this point. IF you cant afford anything.....................use nizoral every third day.

If Stephen's theory intrigues you, rinse your hair in very cold water after you shower and dont dry it for twenty minutes. You can do this a couple of times a day.




mjd50,

Aderans is supposed to have recruited for its first phase one trial. Intercytex is in the middle of its phase two trial. ICX will probably release info of results around October, because that will have been one year since they shot the guys up with their own cells. There will probably be at least one more "phase 2" trial at ICX before they start the last trial, phase three. ICX claims they think they can hit the market somewhere on this planet (probably somewhere in Europe) by 2010, but I think it will be a year or two later than that, even if this trial goes well. They plan on at least one more phase 2 trial (phase 2B) and probably a third, then phase three, then the application process and 10 month review, then release.
I do think it will come to pass, they grew some hair in phase one and all they were looking for was inflammation (didn't happen). They weren't even trying to grow hair. I think it will be the anwer for baldness we have been waiting for.




Stephen,
Nizoral has been shown to shrink sebaceous glands by 19.-something percent. If they re-enlarged after a year or so OFF Nizoral, would you be intrigued by that?

 

[mjd50]

michael barry:
it is interesting to me that they were looking for inflamation. i didn't know that. is it correct to say that if they had injected hair from follicles that are not male pattern baldness resistant, then they would have seen the inflamation that people with male pattern baldness have?

 

[abcdefg]

thats stupid i couldnt even get myself to read the whole thing. I love how science is always trying to find real answers to problems while morons think they have found some ancient mysterious cure that science can not understand. Come on. Ill just rub cow poop on my head as a cure before believing this.

 

[michael barry]

mjd50,

Thats a good question. I always thought they wanted to see if something cancerous appeared or something. Now that you bring it up, if they used cells from male pattern baldness hairs, eventually I suppose inflammation would probably happen.

However, as Docj077 has pointed out (read his posts, he's a smart guy), not everybody who loses their hair has inflammation. I'd just venture a guess that if someone is losing their hair and does not have inflammation, they'd probably be a better responder to various treatments because the immuno reposne might not be happening very strongly with them. I hasten to point ought though, lots of inflammation is sub-clinical, and we need a micoscope to really see it. The scalp may not be that pinkish-inflammed color.


Either way however, none of the first seven trialees had a bad response in anyway. No immune response, no tumors, etc.





There was a rodent tests with a beta-canetin molecular pathway expressed that seen skin cells transition into hair cells, and brand new hairs growing in between existing ones for super-thick heads of hair. Unfortunately the mice got benign tumors all over their heads.............so thats out. They are working on it. It will be exciting around October when ICX should be telling us what happened in the trial.

 

[michael barry]

abcdefg,

It seems alot of folks, when first researching baldness are apt to believe "baldness is just this............" or "baldness is just that..........".


Finasteride photos on propecia.com should at least get these folks to admit DHT is partly responsible.


I have found and posted three pictures of women who took testosterone and went bald in the male pattern fashion in the past. One, named Buck Angel is a damned p**rn star who looks just like a man now with a shaved bald head....................and still has female genitalia. She has a beard, but shaves to a mustache and shaves her chest. Another, some Van Deisel, has a hairy chest, hairy arms, still has breasts, still has a vagine, big beard (muttonchop mustache) and performs in a skullcap because of the Male Patten Baldness. Thene there is that Ophrah Winfrey link with the female twins that seen on go male pattern baldness (Norwood 3.5 or so) with her sister. She has a beard now too, and looks just like a man.


If that doesnt conclusively prove testosterone and its metabolites cause baldness, I dont know what the f*** does. I get amazed at some moonlighting docs who havent even read the medical literature who sometimes put their oars in the water on the subject of baldness. Some are outright quacks, but some I think are just trying to sell various supplements.


PO2 levels are low in balding scalp.......................Of course, the microcapillary damage is well documented in advanced alopecia. They little capillaries shrivel, there is too much collagen deposition in bald scalp also. There would be less hemoglobin (carries oxygen in the blood) up there at the follicle level. Balding scalp sweats more....................................................of course it does. Sweat glands are androgen-responsive and have androgen receptors. All those lost hairs (or miniaturized hairs) have very few androgen receptors because they are super small and in rest phase....................the testosterone binds with any receptor site it finds at that point, overstimulating the sebaceous glands making the scalp oily and the sebocyte glands making it sweat more.


Young fellas like you are lucky though man.................do nizoral, do propecia, do spironolactone....................and you should keep what you have for a very long while. There will almost certainly be an effective "cure" before you'd lose much more.

 

[wookster]

PO2 levels are low in balding scalp

Just speculating here...

http://www.fao.org/WAIRDOCS/LEAD/X6114E/x6114e04.htm

In slaughterhouses animals are received and kept around in stockyards and pens for 1 day.

[...]

Scalding is a method to loosen hair before removal. For several minutes the hogs are held in a scalding tank at 45°C to 65°C. After scalding, the hogs are mechanically dehaired by abrasion and singed in a gas flame to complete the hair removal process.

45 Celsius degrees is about 113 Fahrenheit degrees. Hot water scalding of the scalp of even 35 -45 degrees Celsius, would definitely injure the hair follicles, causing miniaturization.

Homeless winos never get the luxury of warm[scalding] water. In general, bums don't go bald.

http://www.hairsite2.com/library/abst-167.htm

There is a natural 'Hydraulic' hair growth adjustment mechanism, that can be observed in human hair growth patterns. Given Accepted knowledge, this offers an important insight into mammalian evolution, human physiology, and female suseptibility to immune system dysfunction.

Cold showers for me from now on :wink:

 

[Guest]

mike, what do we do if parts of our scalp are that pinkish inflamed color? what drugs, supplements or topicals should be used to stop this?

nizoral? what else?

thanks

 

[michael barry]

God,

I see that Im not the only insomniac in this world, and that makes me thankful for some strage reason.



Jayman,
If your scalp is "very pink" and thus is probably suffering from some inflammation, Id use the NANO perhaps 3-4 times a week. You know, you can put a little nizoral in one hand and NANO in the other and use both. The new Revita Shampoo from DS labs has 2-percent ketoconazale, copper peptides or spin traps, MSM, emu oil, caffeine, taurine, cystenine, and a few other things in it. So I surmise that using a little NANO on your Nizoral days probably wouldn't hurt. I wouldn't store them together.

Inflammation is caused by the inflammatory cytokines that Doctor has posted about. They are (as far as we know) PKC, TNF-alpha, TGF-beta, IL-1. There are probably others. Certain things inibit their expression. Curcumin (active in the body for about 12 hours a dose) inhibits TGF beta AND TNF-alpha, PKC can be inibitied by tocopherol, red wine extract, reservatrol, grape seed extract (I dont know how many hours those are effectively in the bloodstream, but hairloss-research.org states that using grape seed extract once a day is enough in their regimine suggestions), silica supposedly inhibits IL-1 to a degree. Things that contain silica are oatmeal, cucumbers, lettuce, a few other veggies.

Roxythromicyn probably would help with inflammation. Its at lipoxidil. Its an immunosuppressant topical. Its soothing. I have a bottle of it (Im a nosy son of a bittch aren't I? love to try things). Cold water rinses after your shower probably are helpful in lessening inflammation periodically.

There are "anti-inflammatory diets" you can read about. High glycemic index foods are thought to be inflammatory to tissues. Things like borage seed oil, curcumin, flaxseed oil, grape seed extract, and fish oil are thought to be very anti-inflammatory. Emu oil is a terrific anti-inflammatory (its only good for about three months at room temprature though), but can be taken internally. Eating fruits, veggies, and lean meats and nuts and foregoing pastas, french fries, white bread, white anything, and processed food will be anti-inflammatory to one dietarily. Green tea might help.

Anti-inflammatory topicals would include prox-n and tricomin. Thats about all I know. Byran would probably know alot about inflammation if you asked him..........hope this helps. Im suprised Jayman that you'd have any inflammation on dutas, nizoral and NANO........

 

[Guest]

michael,

to be honest i haven't been using the nizoral and nano as much as my regimen says. i faithfully take the dutas every day. sometimes i go a week without shampooing my hair. this could be why it is inflamed. perhaps i will see better results if i start shampooing more regularly/

As for PKC and TNF, Vitamin E inhibits both.

I am going to start taking Curcumin and GTE again to take care of some pathways and I will start dosing 200 IU of Vitamin E as well. I will take Curcumin twice a day because it's active for 12 hours as you said.

 

[michael barry]

Wookie,

The type of info you posted above is why Ive asked Stephen Foote on occasion to attempt to talk a newbie who does not want to use any treatments (like one of those anti-shampoo guys) into using cold on his head twice a day, and to take pictures before and after one year to see his progress......


I know cold is a great anti-inflammatory. Perhpas driving blood away for ten minutes makes the are inpalatable for inflammatory cytokines, perhaps the constriction in lymph nodes and capillaries forces inflammatory prostaglandins and cytokines away from an area and it takes them hours to remount their attack on the area............perhaps it just soothes the hell out of the skin.


I know you pointed out that winos usually have good hair, but to be fair we both know that real drunks dont make a normal amount of testosterone, wine contains reservatrol and they are inhibiting PKC constantly. If they are whiskey drunks, they are getting a good amount of beta sis, usually develp gyno, lose their body hair and even experience a thinning of their pubic hair as well as overall feminization and lack of libido. Those are things to be considered if we are going to be fair.


Pickart suggests rinsing in cold water and not drying the hair with a towel and letting the air dry it, which will mean your head will be cold for about twenty minutes. So, I usually do this............
I wish there was a way to test this on head hair for growth. Perhpas you can buy a little androgenic rodent and pour cold water on the little guy twice a day................................and let the control rodent not have to endure that and see if the freezing critter gets a thicker pelt in six months???????????? Sounds cruel doesn't it?



By the way, Wook...................we know nizoral shrinks sebaceous glands by 19.-something percent. If when someone gets off nizoral, and doesnt use it for a year.....................I wonder if those sebaceous glands re-enlarge.?????????? The consequences for Stephens' idea would be tough to explain? Just a thought.

 

[Berserk]

Something seems fishy with the OP. He sounds like a plant for this so-called "doctor."

 

[michael barry]

Jayman,

The Gardener wrote about sebum in another post...........I'll just cut and paste what he said about washing the hair.......

"You need to keep your scalp clean.

A scalp full of sebum is a breeding ground for naturally-occurring malaseezia yeast, which causes irritation and can synergistically affect the irritative effects of male pattern baldness.

Keep your scalp clean. Although it seems that not washing your hair is more "natural", you need to remember that our bodies have evolved to adapt accordingly.

And, sebum does no good for your hair. It might help keep your scalp moisturized a bit, but hair does not absorb sebum, and sebum has no theraputic benefits on the hair shaft. Sebum, and sweat, are bodily waste products, filled with excreted toxins, that the body has developed mechanisms for which said substances are excreted PAST the waterproof barrier of the skin and onto the skin's surface. If the body has evolved to the point of depositing this sebum crap OUTSIDE of the waterproof barrier, this should be an indication to you that the body really doesn't want this sh*t around us or on us anymore."



Me again Jay,

Furthermore did you know that sebum re-injected back into the scalp is inflammatory and makes it really red? If you dont believe in shampoo or something, at least rinse your head off and "shampoo" with your fingers under the water to try and get the oil off. Children's hair has little or no oil, and its super healthy. Dr. Klingman thought sebum and sebaceous glands were evolutionary holdovers. Use baby shampoo or a mild soap very quickly at the very least to get this "waste" off your scalp. Think of it another way..........................your eyes secrete "sleep" that you remove in the mornings, your face secretes oils (think about those stridex pads when you were a teenager), your ears secrete wax.........................we remove this stuff. Its a waste product that probably helps remove toxins and other gunk.

 

[S Foote.]

Stephen,
Nizoral has been shown to shrink sebaceous glands by 19.-something percent. If they re-enlarged after a year or so OFF Nizoral, would you be intrigued by that?

Any new info is welcome Michael, but there are critical differences in the physiology of sebaceous glands and hair follicles.

S Foote.