You say I’m not financially independent because it fits the narrative you are trying to frame your argument around... that everyone who disagrees with just haven’t pulled themselves up by the boot straps and earned a wage like you. Sorry to break your bubble but you aren’t special. The sad thing is I doubt you make more than me when I don’t even care
“Tons of examples and rational”... uh where. You have nothing backing what you say. All I’ve seen in that realm is “Cancer treatment and cure rates far below us”... uh ya probably because in most countries they catch it in a pre-malignant state with primary care (also probably are a bit more receptive to a dnr), plus you can pick and choose a niche for any country. Japan has significantly higher neonatal survival rates while the US has rate that border closer to a third world country. If we don’t pick and choose based on a certain niche and observe overall mortality we are up by almost 50% when at the same time by your own chosen metric we spend 33% more per capita. That’s abysmal...
Preventative care is dollar for dollar where we should be spending our money. We have so many interventions with hard data supporting their effectiveness in preventing morbidity, mortality and hospitalizations. It should be common sense that we need to spend 5 dollars on prevnar rather than millions for the resuscitation of a child with pneumococcal meningitis... Patient non compliance is certainly a problem but it certainly doesn’t make the field of primary care useless (a ridiculous assertion for anyone with an ounce of medical insight)
“Agree to disagree” that our medical system isn’t broken? Sorry I won’t do that because I’m not gonna put my head in the sand. It’s obviously broken to anyone with eyes
I call you not financially independent because you sound like every know it all yalie in my state who thinks they "get it" and still live off their parents and are terrified to actually be on their own.
where did I say you spend 33% more per capita? I admitted we pay slightly more but not as much as people like to cry about. And that usually equals out in the taxes as a whole anyway.
In the US the average tax rate for someone making about 100K is around 40%. The Rate in Germany is around 56%. You're (not YOU but germany as an example) still paying regardless and if the US went single payer "I" would see a SUBSTANTIAL increase in "my" (and most others) taxes for really no better health care than we're (me) already getting. There isnt an incentive for me to want to bother seeing it go that route, UNLESS we put forward some of the safe guards I mentioned.
You keep spouting "preventative care" but give me nothing that shows how a population here is going to participate nor put in the effort. I have very good insurance, Ive had pretty shitty insurance. I was always capable of getting a doctor and treatment.
The things that could be fixed are
1) tort reform, already mentioned
2) fixed pricing on medical procedures and medication (which Trump says he wants to do), but then we're going to stifle the industry. Sadly yes we will. That prevnar you mentioned, its made by a US pharmaceutical company. Most countries regulate the prices of medication, which Im for, but in turn we dont and usually end up paying more to almost subsidize other countries. This argument goes both ways and its a discussion being had now between the countries with our pharmaceutical companies (US parma companies are still the biggest). One onset of people say it wont hurt Pharma revenues, pharma says it does and they wouldnt put as much R&D in if they were making less (they have investors) which is why we dont regulate them the same as other EU countries. Unless you have a plan for this its a catch 22. The only viable solution I could see is every country agreeing on a one set price for all of them, which would decrease our costs (yay) but increase EUs (well I guess boo)..... Im still for pricing regulation.
3) Again, we need to fix our immigration. Im not going to see single payer happen happily unless I know its only for those who were born here, or live here legally. I am not in the interest of letting 20K people (yes thats the most recent "caravan" of people on their way here) plop here and put their kids on the system. That NEEDS to be fixed. You may not want to admit it but it does have a negative affect on our health care system and cost.
4) the population itself needs to learn to live healthier, thats not happening. No amount of education is going to make most americans just decide "hey Im going to get healthy to save everyone money", they just dont care.
Again, I dont know how many times or ways I can say "Im for it
but...." and it doesnt get through to you. There are always going to be things that are broken, need work and could be better. It will be that way for national or capital systems. I keep saying there is no easy switch, agree to disagree because you keep avoiding my compromise. I am for a single payer system if we can crack down on our illegal immigration, its a simple compromise.
Where do you actually live? If you dont live in the states then how can you even judge here? If you DO live in the states then how would you feel about my compromise.
Either or people LOVE you say "single payer will save you so much on healthcare", okay but the increase in taxes to pay for it will more than offset that.
Im going to let you answer this but really not going to keep going because neither of us will sway the other, which isnt my actual goal here but seems to be yours, then Im out for the week...... disney y'alls!
edit:
https://www.healthsystemtracker.org...tality-rate-per-100000-population-1980-2015-3
on a side note I looked up mortality rates, because that example interested me and 2 points
1) ours arent that much higher, but again we have a massive population which could offset those numbhers, but honestly Id have to do more research which isnt happening this week!
2) mortality rate as a whole or by sickness? The US leading cause of death is heart disease, and that has more to do with our lifestyle than whether our healthcare is free or not. I bet the major cause of our heart disease is due to american diet and then smoking. How will single payer solve those 2 issues?
all debate aside, heres a really good article
https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2017/08/are-you-sure-you-want-single-payer/537456/
and Id say its from a more left leaning source as well.
