Pfs Clinical Experience - Evaluation And Treatment Of 300 Cases

Manochoice

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So I am not sure if this iinfo has already been shared here already but I thought it's worth reading:




Alan Jacobs, MD

(http://blog.alanjacobsmd.com/)

Clinical Experience in the Evaluation and Treatment of 300 cases of Post Finasteride Syndrome

In April 6, 2010 I blogged here on A Neuroendocrine Approach to Finasteride Side Effects in Men. Now I am reporting on how we've done over the past 3 years caring for around 300 men sufferring from Post Finasteride Syndrome (PFS).

First, the group of 300 + men presenting with sexual dysfunction while on finasteride, or recently or not-so-recently off it, did all show a similarly abnormal hormonal profile called hypogonadotropic hypogonadism or HH, which means low testosterone along with low LH and FSH, the pituitary hormones that stimulate the gonads. However, the group was otherwise not monolithic. In fact, I found three groups into which these men could be separately categorized.

10% of the the guys actually had a different reason to have HH, completely unrelated to the finasteride. For example, they had a benign pituitary tumor or some other related pituitary condition partially blocking its function in the hypothalamic-pituitary-gonadal (HPG) axis, so they could not make LH and FSH, and thus their testicles stopped making testosterone.

50% of the guys came with a family history, or genetic load, for emotional conditions such as anxiety and depression. Then when the finasteride caused big-time sexual problems, they were so distressed that their mental anguish itself appearred strong enough to suppress their HPG axis such that they had a separate reason to not be able to raise their LH and FSH when their testosterone declined, presumably initially from the finasteride. This mechanism is no different than the dancers and marathon-running women who loose their menstrual cycles. Such huge stressors, whether physical or mental, cause the higher brain centers in the temporal lobes to put the brakes on fertility, as if it were not a good time to have kids if your own internal stiuation is so hectic to begin with. The emotional parts of the brain inhibit the HPG axis directly, again blocking LH and FSH from responding to the low sex hormones. In this situation it was unclear whether the finasteride, their emotional brains, or both were impeding these guys' ability to get better.

Then there were the 40% of guys who had no other reason than PFS to have HH, and to be sexually impaired, physically perturbed and mentally distraught - the pure post finasteride syndrome.

The first group of guys got treated in the appropriate neurosurgical setting, or reassured that there was no treatment needed except to normalize their testosterone levels. The second group presented more of a problem as they needed to be shaken out of their despair first in order for their HPG axis to be released from the grip of their higher emotional brian centers and be able to start making appropriate amounts of LH and FSH, leaving the only variable left to deal with the finasteride. The best way to do this was to raise their testosterone levels directly and aggressively such that they felt great and trusted their bodies to be normalizable. Also, in many cases anti-anxiety medications were added and were very helpful. Gradually these guys' minds eased and they were eventually given the option to taper off the hormone after 6-12 months to see if they would stay normal on their own, though very few have as of yet wanted to. The third group could most often be treated successfully by using medications to raise LH and FSH directly and letting their testicles follow suit and make more testosterone. Sometimes LH and FSH would not budge enough and direct testosterone replacement was necessary and did the trick as long as the dose was pushed high enough and estradiol was kept from rising, due to peripheral conversion (aromatization) of the testosterone, with a different medication.

PFS is an troublesome condition, however, my experience is that it is well worth applying the neuroendocrine approach to caring for these guys since it has been most often beneficial to them.
 

yoloveyo

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Thanks for Posting this, i already have mid/Low LH, FSH, Test.
Lh 5,1 1,7-8,6
FSH 2,1 1,5-12
Test. 5,2 2,49-8,36
Free T. 11 8-47

And i Just wanted to Start Finasteride, is this a Bad idea now? Do this hormones drop Overtime with Finasteride, i heared a few Stories where the T was lower than before >.<
 

Heinrich Harrer

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Finasteride tanks LH and FSH I’ve said it a million times. With values of 3 or less, it is as if you’re having major depression. Add to it the fact that DHT plays a huge role in a variety of body functions. Add to it the fact that testosterone raises, so shbg raises, so then once testosterone plummets, free testosterone evaporates (since shbg can stay high). That’s when you feel like hell.

Add to it the cognitive damage the drug causes and its long term damage. Some people will tolerate the drug, it doesn’t mean they don’t have sides. Everyone does, 100% of users have sides, sides meaning the path and hormonal shifts the drug causes. Some are weaker, some are not. Some “feel” it, some don’t.

It’s not just the drug. It’s the whole antiandrogen/feminization method that’s absurd. That’s not a cure, that’s a joke. We definitely need to take another look at the skull pressure/galea theory as it’s proving to be more and more relevant. We are not yet advanced enough to go deeper in this subject but killing our libido and shutting down our hpta for mediocre regrowth/maintenance without fighting the root cause is absolutely mental.

Anyone with low LH, FSH and T should stay away from thfrom drug at all costs. As I’ve said before, many face low Lh and Fsh because of psychological reasons ALONE and NOT pituitary tumors or anything else blocking its normal secretion.

There is also a big rumor that the drug fucks up the androgen receptors which is why many PFS users can’t get it up even on TRT.

Good luck to anyone taking this drug, I hope they can manage long term.
 

TONSofBODYHAIR

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I agree with the author that most pfs cases are hypochondriacs ridden with anxiety, however in my case i went from top of the range dht levels to completely tanked levels which never bounced back, and now suffer from androgen deficiency. Seeing your balls shag, your penis numb dead, shooting prostate pains, gyno and losing half your bodyhair, now that i'd call real pfs.

Guess its time to request a name change on this forum
 

Heinrich Harrer

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I agree with the author that most pfs cases are hypochondriacs ridden with anxiety, however in my case i went from top of the range dht levels to completely tanked levels which never bounced back, and now suffer from androgen deficiency. Seeing your balls shag, your penis numb dead, shooting prostate pains, gyno and losing half your bodyhair, now that i'd call real pfs.

Guess its time to request a name change on this forum

Word.
 

yoloveyo

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Oh f***. Glad i didnt Started. What do you mean with Finasteride Tanks LH und FSH. Sry Not my Mother language. Do you mean IT lowers them?
 

TONSofBODYHAIR

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Yes it lowers both, my case was the 1/100 everyone talks about my hair was important so i took the chance, if you like your hair give fina a try and see how your body reacts
 

yoloveyo

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OK in the Merck studies There was no Change shown in this hormones. OK If its true and I take this Meditation im 100% under the reference range, which means i would be 100% fucked? And after discontinuation of the drug, LH und FSH wont rise to its previous level? Im really Happy that i saw this post.
 

Heinrich Harrer

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I have Baseline, the question is: did your hormones recover after discontinuation?

Anything that suppresses your hpta may not return at all after discontinuation and certainly doesn’t return 100%, fact. Same goes with steroids. The difference may be so minimal though that you won’t notice. Precisely what habitual steroid users rely upon to continue their misuse until their hpta doesn’t recover or recovers to a bare minimum and they have to go on lifetime trt.
 

tomJ

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Finasteride tanks LH and FSH I’ve said it a million times. With values of 3 or less, it is as if you’re having major depression. Add to it the fact that DHT plays a huge role in a variety of body functions. Add to it the fact that testosterone raises, so shbg raises, so then once testosterone plummets, free testosterone evaporates (since shbg can stay high). That’s when you feel like hell.

Add to it the cognitive damage the drug causes and its long term damage. Some people will tolerate the drug, it doesn’t mean they don’t have sides. Everyone does, 100% of users have sides, sides meaning the path and hormonal shifts the drug causes. Some are weaker, some are not. Some “feel” it, some don’t.

It’s not just the drug. It’s the whole antiandrogen/feminization method that’s absurd. That’s not a cure, that’s a joke. We definitely need to take another look at the skull pressure/galea theory as it’s proving to be more and more relevant. We are not yet advanced enough to go deeper in this subject but killing our libido and shutting down our hpta for mediocre regrowth/maintenance without fighting the root cause is absolutely mental.

Anyone with low LH, FSH and T should stay away from thfrom drug at all costs. As I’ve said before, many face low Lh and Fsh because of psychological reasons ALONE and NOT pituitary tumors or anything else blocking its normal secretion.

There is also a big rumor that the drug fucks up the androgen receptors which is why many PFS users can’t get it up even on TRT.

Good luck to anyone taking this drug, I hope they can manage long term.
What is the possibility that Finasteride caused or contributed to the pituitary tumors in the first place? Hmmmm I'm willing to bet there is a connection.
 

Heinrich Harrer

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What is the possibility that Finasteride caused or contributed to the pituitary tumors in the first place? Hmmmm I'm willing to bet there is a connection.

That I don’t know and I’d say not really. I do know of people who abused nandrolones and ended up with prolactinoma.
 

tomJ

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Guys maybe you can offer insight here. I had pfs really bad and it took me several years to start feeling better. I did not go with trt or any meds to help I went the long natural route..but here is where I need your help: before using finasteride I used nizoral keto shampoo at least once per week sometimes more with no problems what so ever. It cleared out the sebum and calmed down the scalp inflammation big time. I was very happy with it...but ever since the big finasteride crash, I can not tolerate nizoral keto shampoo at all! If I use it I feel pretty sick (and look it too with a dull sickly no energy looking face) for about 2 days sometimes 3 days and then I start to recover. I even lose weight during this time (im already super thin)To me it seems to cause a mini pfs crash. Why is this happening? Should I have the doctor give me a brain MRI to check for pituitary disorder? Also since the BIG finasteride crash I had I now have really bad food allergies. Seriously my diet is so bland now I'm so sick of it. Maybe there is a connection between the sides I get from using the keto shampoo and the really bad food allergies? I would love to figure this out so I can feel normal again. And fyi I never had any food sensitivities before the finasteride crash. Now my stomach and intestinal tract are a mess after eating anything other then very simple meats and vegetables. Anyone help?
 

Heinrich Harrer

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Guys maybe you can offer insight here. I had pfs really bad and it took me several years to start feeling better. I did not go with trt or any meds to help I went the long natural route..but here is where I need your help: before using finasteride I used nizoral keto shampoo at least once per week sometimes more with no problems what so ever. It cleared out the sebum and calmed down the scalp inflammation big time. I was very happy with it...but ever since the big finasteride crash, I can not tolerate nizoral keto shampoo at all! If I use it I feel pretty sick (and look it too with a dull sickly no energy looking face) for about 2 days sometimes 3 days and then I start to recover. I even lose weight during this time (im already super thin)To me it seems to cause a mini pfs crash. Why is this happening? Should I have the doctor give me a brain MRI to check for pituitary disorder? Also since the BIG finasteride crash I had I now have really bad food allergies. Seriously my diet is so bland now I'm so sick of it. Maybe there is a connection between the sides I get from using the keto shampoo and the really bad food allergies? I would love to figure this out so I can feel normal again. And fyi I never had any food sensitivities before the finasteride crash. Now my stomach and intestinal tract are a mess after eating anything other then very simple meats and vegetables. Anyone help?

Blood tests, general+thyroid+hormones+psa+anything else your endo suggests. GI tract test (they insert a micro camera through mouth into stomach, they sedate you beforehand).
 

tomJ

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Blood tests, general+thyroid+hormones+psa+anything else your endo suggests. GI tract test (they insert a micro camera through mouth into stomach, they sedate you beforehand).
I had all that done..and had an endoscopy done but just upper gi tract...dr. said it was inflamed and that was it...gastritis....but why? Why do most foods give me gastritis now and bowel discomfort.. that's great that he said I have gastritis but freaking why? I don't have acid come up or anytjing...its like my body cant handle any kind of inflammation...again this I feel is related to not being able to use keto shampoo either...its like a hormone responsible for calming inflammation no longer exists in my body.
 

Bigbone

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So basically what the blog post says is that out of the 0.1% that suffers from PFS 60% out of those are placebo?

I agree with the author that most pfs cases are hypochondriacs ridden with anxiety, however in my case i went from top of the range dht levels to completely tanked levels which never bounced back, and now suffer from androgen deficiency. Seeing your balls shag, your penis numb dead, shooting prostate pains, gyno and losing half your bodyhair, now that i'd call real pfs.

Guess its time to request a name change on this forum
What's your DHT levels now and what was it previously? Also, what does the Doctor say?

Anything that suppresses your hpta may not return at all after discontinuation and certainly doesn’t return 100%, fact. Same goes with steroids. The difference may be so minimal though that you won’t notice. Precisely what habitual steroid users rely upon to continue their misuse until their hpta doesn’t recover or recovers to a bare minimum and they have to go on lifetime trt.
Still zero links, what's the point man? You have a lot to say about the drug yet nothing to back up any of it. If you don't care what people think, why even post it in the first place? And if you do care, how hard is it to find all these studies that you've already read and share them? If you want to be helpful, do it the right way.

You also say that finasteride tanks LH and FSH while studies say that they're untouched. If what you say is true, someone would have made millions by now suing Merck since it would be very easy to prove.
 

Heinrich Harrer

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I had all that done..and had an endoscopy done but just upper gi tract...dr. said it was inflamed and that was it...gastritis....but why? Why do most foods give me gastritis now and bowel discomfort.. that's great that he said I have gastritis but freaking why? I don't have acid come up or anytjing...its like my body cant handle any kind of inflammation...again this I feel is related to not being able to use keto shampoo either...its like a hormone responsible for calming inflammation no longer exists in my body.

24 hour cortisol check and check your kidneys too. Take probiotics. Ask the Doctor if your stomach valve is loose or not (I assume he told you that there is no hernia).
 

Heinrich Harrer

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So basically what the blog post says is that out of the 0.1% that suffers from PFS 60% out of those are placebo?


What's your DHT levels now and what was it previously? Also, what does the Doctor say?


Still zero links, what's the point man? You have a lot to say about the drug yet nothing to back up any of it. If you don't care what people think, why even post it in the first place? And if you do care, how hard is it to find all these studies that you've already read and share them? If you want to be helpful, do it the right way.

You also say that finasteride tanks LH and FSH while studies say that they're untouched. If what you say is true, someone would have made millions by now suing Merck since it would be very easy to prove.

I will do a check up next week on my dht levels. From “feeling” everything should be normal.

As far as LH and FSH go, the information is available on the internet. If someone can find ten useless rat studies, he can find this too. I’d never say something in vain but I won’t spoon feed anyone either. If you are confident that “I’m full of sh*t”, take finasteride and measure your LH and FSH levels before, a month in and six months in.
 
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