Phase III for duta to treat male pattern baldness

[fml]

In all fairness I would expect dutasteride to do a better job at preventing hair loss. If you took it really early on you might keep all your hair like the pictures of those twins where one never went bald at all. That being said I think dutasteride is pretty risky long term and you might be better off just going bald for a few years until CB hits the market so you can deal with male pattern baldness safely

LOL you havent learnt much in the nine years you have been here have you!

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Another dead end getting far too much coverage here. I took Avodart for a year or just over and it was... underwhelming. Couldnt tell the difference between that and generic finasteride that has been flown half way round the world. Come on, if it was significantly better than finasteride the trials would have been done and it would have been ready to ship the minute the Propecia patent expired. Actually it would have been out before that because that patent excuse is BS.

When something thats already out there works... and REALLY works noticeably better than the crap we have right now, we will know about it! There will be far more compelling evidence on the forums. Even photos from forum members will show it convincingly rather than the ambiguous crap pictures we get from all the different failed treatments like vag cream, ru, cb, dutasteride, finasteride and all those truly ridiculous "alternative treatments".

I probably only come to the forums every couple of months or less these days, but it never ceases to be the same delusional nonsense. When you guys gunna wake up? Take your finasteride and forget it. Preserve as much as you can and possibly get a hair transplant at some point. That is it for our generation! Havent any of you guys been around the block in life? Dont you have any ability at all to filter out the crap on the internet? Im assuming some of you have grown up with the internet. You really should have developed some skills for separating signal and noise by now.

 

[happychineseboy]

LOL you havent learnt much in the nine years you have been here have you!

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Another dead end getting far too much coverage here. I took Avodart for a year or just over and it was... underwhelming. Couldnt tell the difference between that and generic finasteride that has been flown half way round the world. Come on, if it was significantly better than finasteride the trials would have been done and it would have been ready to ship the minute the Propecia patent expired. Actually it would have been out before that because that patent excuse is BS.

When something thats already out there works... and REALLY works noticeably better than the crap we have right now, we will know about it! There will be far more compelling evidence on the forums. Even photos from forum members will show it convincingly rather than the ambiguous crap pictures we get from all the different failed treatments like vag cream, ru, cb, dutasteride, finasteride and all those truly ridiculous "alternative treatments".

I probably only come to the forums every couple of months or less these days, but it never ceases to be the same delusional nonsense. When you guys gunna wake up? Take your finasteride and forget it. Preserve as much as you can and possibly get a hair transplant at some point. That is it for our generation! Havent any of you guys been around the block in life? Dont you have any ability at all to filter out the crap on the internet? Im assuming some of you have grown up with the internet. You really should have developed some skills for separating signal and noise by now.

If duta works 1% better than finasteride with 1% less side effects then I say it is something that the hair loss community should applaud. But yes, duta is not the miracle drug we have all been waiting for. At best it can delay the inevitable, that alone is good enough for me

 

[cthulhu2.0]

If duta works 1% better than finasteride with 1% less side effects then I say it is something that the hair loss community should applaud. But yes,itduta is not the miracle drug we have all been waiting for. At best it can delay the inevitable, that alone is good enough for me

Quite the contrary. The literature I have read suggests dutasteride is accompanied by more severe sexual side effects, gynecomastia in particular. This makes sense since It inhibits up to 95% of serum dht compared to 70% with finasteride

 

[happychineseboy]

http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/results/NCT01231607?show_locs=Y&sect=X430125#othr Anyone take a look at the results yet? Looks like side effects for duta are lower than finasteride. Too bad the results are whack, they suggest that it is possible to have negative DHT http://i.imgur.com/fw04USg.png

 

[cthulhu2.0]

Int J Clin Pract. 2012 Nov;66(11):1052-5. doi: 10.1111/j.1742-1241.2012.03010.x.
[h=1]A 5-year retrospective analysis of 5α-reductase inhibitors in men with benign prostatic hyperplasia: finasteride has comparable urinary symptom efficacy and prostate volume reduction, but less sexual side effects and breast complications than dutasteride.[/h]Kaplan SA1, Chung DE, Lee RK, Scofield S, Telogen Effluvium AE.
[h=3]Author information[/h]

[h=3]Abstract[/h][h=4]OBJECTIVE:[/h]We evaluated 5-year safety, efficacy and prostate volume data from BPH patients treated with finasteride ordutasteride.
[h=4]METHODS:[/h]A retrospective analysis of 378 consecutive men treated with 5α-reductase inhibitor monotherapy between January 2004 and September 2009 (197 on finasteride and 211 on dutasteride) in a single clinic was performed. Efficacy assessments included International Prostate Symptom Score (IPSS), peak urinary flow rate (Qmax), postvoid residual urine volume (PVR), prostate-specific antigen (PSA) and prostate volume (PV). Safety assessments included International Index of Erectile Function (IIEF) and adverse events. Patients were evaluated at 3 months, 1 year and yearly thereafter.
[h=4]RESULTS:[/h]Mean age of the group was 58.7 ± 6.7 years. Maintenance of therapy at 5 years was 57.4% and 42.5% for thefinasteride and dutasteride groups respectively. Changes in IPSS, Qmax, PVR, PV and PSA were similar for both groups at 5 years. The incidence of erectile dysfunction, ejaculatory dysfunction and decreased libido resulting in discontinuation from therapy was significantly (p < 0.01) higher in the dutasteride (5.1%, 2.4%, 2.7% respectively) compared with the finasteride(2.1%, 1.8%, 1.4% respectively) group. In addition, the incidence of self-reported breast tenderness and/or enlargement was significantly (p < 0.01) greater in the dutasteride (3.5%) compared with the finasteride (1.2%) group.
[h=4]CONCLUSIONS:[/h]In this retrospective analysis of data from consecutive patients treated at a single clinic, both finasteride anddutasteride were effective therapies for the management of lower urinary tract symptoms. However, dutasteride resulted in significantly more sexual side effects and breast complications than finasteride.

This isn't the first study to demonstrate this. Given the amount of dht suppressed, there is no conceivable explanation for why dutasteride would result in less sexual side effects. On other forums, you can read plenty of peoples' experiences with dutasteride and finasteride and how dutasteride side effects were much much worse.

 

[Python]

dutasteride and finasteride won't work as topicals because they need to be metabolized by the liver to be effective. There are a couple of studies on this, and basically finasteride and dutasteride work to the extent that they are systematically absorbed into the blood stream. This is the reason for the development of cb-03-01, which is metabolized in the skin into its inactive ingredient. Besides, Merck and GSK would have developed topicals long ago given the stigma of taking these medications orally for hairloss.

NO, I refuse to accept that answer, there had to be a way to make it a topical. Find it, dammit, we need to try different experiments and hit it with lasers until we find the answer.
Whatever it takes, tackle it from different angles, have some forum members try one thing after another.

 

[cthulhu2.0]

.

 

[Lollerme]

lol at people who think topicals will do it

It's almost like telling a guy who just broke his leg to put lotion on it

 

[cthulhu2.0]

lol at people who think topicals will do it

It's almost like telling a guy who just broke his leg to put lotion on it

Minoxidil and ketocanazole (nizoral) are both topicals and they are part of the big 3 for hairloss. I dont think Androgenetic Alopecia is comparable to a broken leg.

 

[Lollerme]

Minoxidil and ketocanazole (nizoral) are both topicals and they are part of the big 3 for hairloss. I dont think Androgenetic Alopecia is comparable to a broken leg.

Alrigt, what about, headaches - painkillers?

But I hope you get my my point.
You can't really expect any results using topicals.

 

[aj218]

Alrigt, what about, headaches - painkillers?

But I hope you get my my point.
You can't really expect any results using topicals.

Actually you can. The issue with oral drugs is that a large majority of the drug will go to other parts of the body. In the case of dutasteride and finasteride, there's 5 alpha reductase found all over the body. It's the reason why finasteride reduces 70% of serum dht but only 30% of scalp DHT, where it matters. That also explains the side effects.

With topicals the majority of the drug will go straight to the issue, the hair follicles. The hair follicles are only found around 1cm below the skin surface, a good vehicle can easily penetrate that. We know that the receptors for most of the metabolites that cause balding are found on or around the dermal papillae.

Your analogy of a broken leg is stupid as your bones are underneath a layer of skin, fat and muscle. It's hard to penetrate that, skin on it's own is easy.

Also, in terms of headaches, the reason why oral painkillers are used is because they are dirt cheap. If the headache is due to low blood pressure in the vessels around the temples (which it usually is), theoretically, a topical vasoconstrictor can solve that.

 

[cthulhu2.0]

Alrigt, what about, headaches - painkillers?

But I hope you get my my point.
You can't really expect any results using topicals.

Androgenic Alopecia is a dermatological condition and thus, it would be best to treat if with topicals. I don't think Androgenetic Alopecia is comparable to surgical issues since is is due to dht sensitivity in the skin. The benefit of a topical like cb-03-01 is that it would effect hairloss on location, without effecting our natural hormones.

 

[aj218]

Androgenic Alopecia is a dermatological condition and thus, it would be best to treat if with topicals. I don't think Androgenetic Alopecia is comparable to surgical issues since is is due to dht sensitivity in the skin. The benefit of a topical like cb-03-01 is that it would effect hairloss on location, without effecting our natural hormones.

Exactly. We don't know what the long term effects are of blocking DHT throughout the whole body. It's best if we have something that just focuses on the scalp.

 

[Python]

What about if we use gravity waves?

 

[aj218]

What about if we use gravity waves?

Do you mean capillary waves or actual gravitational waves?

 

[Python]

Do you mean capillary waves or actual gravitational waves?

Primordial gravitational waves, I was just being a bit comical since nothing will work anyways

 

[aj218]

Primordial gravitational waves, I was just being a bit comical since nothing will work anyways

Oh sorry the joke didn't work on me. I was actually reading about capillary waves and drug perfusion when I was revising for my exams. I need to take a break.

 

[happychineseboy]

I am pretty sure 1mg ED finasteride lowers scalp DHT by more than 30%

 

[paulie72785]

The only thing we need is not a 5a inhibitor or DHT destroyer , we need a Androgen receptor blocker........This when combined with a PGD2 blocker that is wired to work on SCALP only will be a long term "cure".For a NW2-3 im sure about that this will rock the world of Androgenetic Alopecia

 

[abcdefg]

Yeah rock the world in terms of prevention. It remains to be seen what role PGD 2 has in regrowing anything but its certainly too early to say it does more than prevent