Possible explanation for failure with Propecia or Avodart.

[docj077]

Bryan, I don't question that IGF-1 is good for hair...under very particular conditions. Unfortunately, increased IGF-1 in the scalp is cause for concern.

I suspect that there may be more to it than just that, since those studies you cited for me had to do with serum levels of IGF-1. In other words, some scalps may be balding not BECAUSE they possibly have higher levels of IGF-1 (via the bloodstream), but IN SPITE of it.

I'll also add that I see an analogous situation here between IGF-1 and estrogen, in that some people have long tried to argue that because there's a statistical correlation between increasing estrogen levels in ageing men and increasing obesity, prostate, and hairloss problems, therefore the estrogen must be directly contributing to hairloss. But my position is that just like with serum IGF-1, hairloss worsens DESPITE the increasing estrogen, not BECAUSE of it.

I do believe that I agree with your observations with regards to estrogen. However, IGF-1 is a little more of a mystery to me. I would really like to know where the increase in IGF-1 in the scalp is coming from in men with male pattern baldness. If it is coming from the follicle itself, then the increase could very well be a protective mechanism to keep the hair growing in the presence of TGF-beta or whatever inhibitor we might be talking about. If the IGF-1 is produced systemically and simply increased in response to growth hormone production and poor diet or other unknown factor, then it would probably be good if someone would do a study that demonstrated that IGF-1 is elevated in all tissues and not just balding scalp.

 

[Bryan]

Yes indeed. The two studies you showed me before had to do with elevated serum levels of IGF-1 in older balding men, but I want to see experiments done with measurements of IGF-1 mRNA in scalp biopsies and cultures of hair follicles from older balding men. If they ever do that, I'll wager a little money on the idea that androgens will be shown to DOWNregulate it in scalp follicles, and UPregulate it in beard follicles! :wink: I bet such an experiment could even be done that eliminates TGF-beta as a variable.

 

[abcdefg]

What supplements are good for fighting igf-1 and tgf beta and are we trying to lower or increase these? I guess we want to lower tgf beta because its a downstream effect of dht but what about this igf-1 business? What are the 3 most important factors in male pattern baldness that we can attack with supplements as of today? or is propecia best to just maintain a Norwood 1?

 

[harold]

Yes indeed. The two studies you showed me before had to do with elevated serum levels of IGF-1 in older balding men, but I want to see experiments done with measurements of IGF-1 mRNA in scalp biopsies and cultures of hair follicles from older balding men. If they ever do that, I'll wager a little money on the idea that androgens will be shown to DOWNregulate it in scalp follicles, and UPregulate it in beard follicles! :wink: I bet such an experiment could even be done that eliminates TGF-beta as a variable.

I think the elevated serum IGF-1 is probably linked to the increase in IGF-1 in those areas where hair is androgen dependent which are far outweighed by the small areas of the scalp where IGF-1 is probably downregulated or not affected at all by DHT.
hh