Prevalence Study: Correlation between male pattern baldness and ejaculation frequency

[psyhotria]

I'm not sure you are correct psyhotria because testosterone increasing within one week is not equivalent to DHT increasing.

I know that - and in my case, I use finasteride, so, dht is not a problem anyway, it does not rise. But T does (and who knows what else), and the worst time points for my hair are (1) when in action, (2) at 3rd day afterwards, and (3) at around the one week mark (after that things normally de-escalete). Now, on 3rd day the sperm count peakes out, and at the one week mark T peakes out..Btw I do not experience "wet dreams" anymore, I cannot even remember last time it happened. Autonomous ejaculation during sleep has the same effect as intentional action. Therefore I have conditioned myself to not experience such effects. Of course finasteride's side-effects (and their progession over time) greatly help me out here.

 

[optimystic]

How long have you been around on hair loss forums? There have been countless theories about how environment could worsen male pattern baldness. Yet after 10 years since the forums became popular, we still have no results to show whatsoever. Nothing. Why is that? It is because male pattern baldness is simply a genetic trait.

You don't know me. I've been scammed before by all those diet/masturbation/having a boner worsens male pattern baldness. I've lost time, money and even my dignity in that process. Our situation is already bad enough that we don't need people blaming our lifestyle to be the cause of this horrible disease of the spirit.

Just remember this: no matter what you do, if you don't treat your hair loss with FDA approved medication, you will end up bald. No matter what how many times a day you ejaculate and no matter how many cheeseburgers you eat. You are in denial, you are in the phase where you tell yourself: "there must me something else I can do to dodge this". And it will only lead you to a path of frustration and suffering. Trust me, I've gone down that road.

Well that's true. I don't know you. I don't know what you've tried, and for how long, and what results you've seen.

I am an MD, and through my years of medical school i learn all about FDA approved medications. Just because something is "FDA approved" does not mean it should be the standard of treatment.
And personally, I would rather go bald then try those medications that unnaturally mess with my hormone levels. Not just because of the documented case reports of adverse effects, which are plenty on pubmed alone.
But also because I trust my own logic when it comes to assimilating my knowledge. And i have sat and listened through enough boring evidence based medicine lectures to be able to tell when a piece of information has STRONG evidence to support it vs. WEAK\"take it with a grain of salt" evidence.

I UNDERSTAND that male pattern baldness is due to a GENETIC SUSCEPTIBILITY of the hair follicle to DHT.
But I also KNOW (with STRONG level of evidence) that that is NOT the only factor.
And the proof is in the pudding: If it was only about susceptibility and the level of hormones wouldn't matter, then Finasteride wouldn't work.
But Finasteride does work for almost everyone, and it's easy to understand how it's working because we know EXACTLY what the drug is doing (it's reducing DHT).

So now I have it set in my head that if you CONTROL DHT, you can CONTROL HAIR LOSS. (Not talking about REVERSING or CURING hair loss, talking about CONTROL as in slow it down)

Now for the next thing that makes sense to me, hormones are in your body for a reason. They function to serve your gender role. They give you the urge to copulate, and they give you reward when you copulate.
Hormones are your best wingman. Hormones are there to make you more physically attractive to the opposite sex. Hormones will even affect YOUR MOOD and PERSONALITY to make you more attractive to the opposite sex.
So it's kind of ironic that hormones are exacerbating a disease that makes you less attractive, gives you less confidence, and forces the modern man to take medication in order to suppress it.

Lucky for us, hormones ARE under regulation. In females, the menstrual cycle is very well understood and the fluctuation of hormone levels can be charted on a graph. We know how the feedback system works, and we've used it to our advantage to make pills that prevent pregnancy and stop menses.
In males, hormone cycles are under A LOT of variation. Not just from man to man, but from day to day. Our sperm factory is on 24\7. And our delivery company is ready to ship whatever quantity of sperm is available, as many times as we want it. You guys may have noticed that as you deliver more and more shipments with small intervals between them, the packaging becomes less quality but the delivery still works on demand.
The process is fast. Our cycle doesn't take days, it takes hours. And it doesn't have to be regular either. You can ship today, you can ship next week, or you can keep it in the warehouse. It's not a regular systematic cycle.
However, there IS a feedback loop.
Your factory can tell when it's having a lot of shipments, and this will send a trigger to upper management that more sperm needs to be produced, and faster. Upper management will not decline your request, because all it cares about is turning a profit. It will hire the employees necessary to increase production. And it will make sure that these employees, who otherwise might be working other jobs to help you make a profit, will now focus less on marketing and advertising and more on producing.

In case i lost you guys in the metaphor, here's a key:
The factory would have to be your gonads, the delivery system would have to be your penis and shipping is masturbating, upper management is your hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis, employees are your hormones, marketing and advertising would be muscles and secondary sexual characteristics that make you more attractive to the opposite sex and also personality changes that give you more confidence to increase your chances of attracting a mate, and turning a profit simply means spreading your seed (ejaculating).

So basically that story is just to tell you that your hormone levels despite being variable ARE SUBJECT TO CONTROL BASED ON BEHAVIOR because there is FEEDBACK.
The question is how much control can be established by altering behavior? Could the effect surpass that of lowering DHT by finasteride for example? And how long would one have to wait to see effect?

My theory is, when you take finasteride daily you instantly lower your DHT, and then it takes 3months-1 year of lower DHT to see effect.
However when you decrease ejaculation frequency in attempt to reduce DHT, your DHT levels don't regulate to a new lower level until months after that. And then when your DHT level is lowered, you need months again to see the positive impact of that lower DHT level on hair loss.
Which means if you change your ejaculation frequency starting NOW, you will have to wait longer to see an effect than if you start finasteride NOW.
But i believe IN THE LONG TERM, you might achieve a level lower than that with finasteride use, with an effect that lasts longer and most importantly has no adverse effects on your life.

If this proves to be true, instead of taking drugs that FORCIBLY ALTER hormones levels we could take the more protracted but safer and more effective course of NATURALLY ADJUSTING hormone levels.

 

[squeegee]

Everybody masturbate.. yeah everybody.. hair no hair.. Get the **** over that stupid theory. Priest, Chewbaca, married couple, ****ing everybody. Chronic masturbation is everywhere.. The internet is 90% p**rn. I still see people with their head full of hair. A good friend of mine **** everything on 2 legs with tits, masturbate all the time..Full head of hair still.. The less hair I have the more I masturbate LOL

 

[Jlyncher]

Well that's true. I don't know you. I don't know what you've tried, and for how long, and what results you've seen.

I am an MD, and through my years of medical school i learn all about FDA approved medications. Just because something is "FDA approved" does not mean it should be the standard of treatment.
And personally, I would rather go bald then try those medications that unnaturally mess with my hormone levels. Not just because of the documented case reports of adverse effects, which are plenty on pubmed alone.
But also because I trust my own logic when it comes to assimilating my knowledge. And i have sat and listened through enough boring evidence based medicine lectures to be able to tell when a piece of information has STRONG evidence to support it vs. WEAK\"take it with a grain of salt" evidence.

I UNDERSTAND that male pattern baldness is due to a GENETIC SUSCEPTIBILITY of the hair follicle to DHT.
But I also KNOW (with STRONG level of evidence) that that is NOT the only factor.
And the proof is in the pudding: If it was only about susceptibility and the level of hormones wouldn't matter, then Finasteride wouldn't work.
But Finasteride does work for almost everyone, and it's easy to understand how it's working because we know EXACTLY what the drug is doing (it's reducing DHT).

So now I have it set in my head that if you CONTROL DHT, you can CONTROL HAIR LOSS. (Not talking about REVERSING or CURING hair loss, talking about CONTROL as in slow it down)

Now for the next thing that makes sense to me, hormones are in your body for a reason. They function to serve your gender role. They give you the urge to copulate, and they give you reward when you copulate.
Hormones are your best wingman. Hormones are there to make you more physically attractive to the opposite sex. Hormones will even affect YOUR MOOD and PERSONALITY to make you more attractive to the opposite sex.
So it's kind of ironic that hormones are exacerbating a disease that makes you less attractive, gives you less confidence, and forces the modern man to take medication in order to suppress it.

Lucky for us, hormones ARE under regulation. In females, the menstrual cycle is very well understood and the fluctuation of hormone levels can be charted on a graph. We know how the feedback system works, and we've used it to our advantage to make pills that prevent pregnancy and stop menses.
In males, hormone cycles are under A LOT of variation. Not just from man to man, but from day to day. Our sperm factory is on 24\7. And our delivery company is ready to ship whatever quantity of sperm is available, as many times as we want it. You guys may have noticed that as you deliver more and more shipments with small intervals between them, the packaging becomes less quality but the delivery still works on demand.
The process is fast. Our cycle doesn't take days, it takes hours. And it doesn't have to be regular either. You can ship today, you can ship next week, or you can keep it in the warehouse. It's not a regular systematic cycle.
However, there IS a feedback loop.
Your factory can tell when it's having a lot of shipments, and this will send a trigger to upper management that more sperm needs to be produced, and faster. Upper management will not decline your request, because all it cares about is turning a profit. It will hire the employees necessary to increase production. And it will make sure that these employees, who otherwise might be working other jobs to help you make a profit, will now focus less on marketing and advertising and more on producing.

In case i lost you guys in the metaphor, here's a key:
The factory would have to be your gonads, the delivery system would have to be your penis and shipping is masturbating, upper management is your hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis, employees are your hormones, marketing and advertising would be muscles and secondary sexual characteristics that make you more attractive to the opposite sex and also personality changes that give you more confidence to increase your chances of attracting a mate, and turning a profit simply means spreading your seed (ejaculating).

So basically that story is just to tell you that your hormone levels despite being variable ARE SUBJECT TO CONTROL BASED ON BEHAVIOR because there is FEEDBACK.
The question is how much control can be established by altering behavior? Could the effect surpass that of lowering DHT by finasteride for example? And how long would one have to wait to see effect?

My theory is, when you take finasteride daily you instantly lower your DHT, and then it takes 3months-1 year of lower DHT to see effect.
However when you decrease ejaculation frequency in attempt to reduce DHT, your DHT levels don't regulate to a new lower level until months after that. And then when your DHT level is lowered, you need months again to see the positive impact of that lower DHT level on hair loss.
Which means if you change your ejaculation frequency starting NOW, you will have to wait longer to see an effect than if you start finasteride NOW.
But i believe IN THE LONG TERM, you might achieve a level lower than that with finasteride use, with an effect that lasts longer and most importantly has no adverse effects on your life.

If this proves to be true, instead of taking drugs that FORCIBLY ALTER hormones levels we could take the more protracted but safer and more effective course of NATURALLY ADJUSTING hormone levels.

I call bull****. On this thread, and on you.

In 2009 you were 20yrs old. Now you're an md investigating the effects of masturbation on male pattern baldness?

 

[ganonford]

There's a guy in a latin-american forum who went eight months without masturbating. He said his hair did not got any better, nor did his shed slowed down. Truthto be told, he did not said if he also stopped sex or not (I suppose he did not, that would be insane and just plain stupid).

I may be wrong, but I do think that masturbation and sex can have a tiny impact on hair loss on those with a genetic predisposition to Androgenetic Alopecia. Masturbation and sex increase testosterona and DHT. So does steroids, and it is know that steroids accelerate hair-loss on people with Androgenetic Alopecia. Of course, I am not comparing masturbation with steroids, as masturbation elevates testosterone only a very little bit. So I do think it may have an effect on your hair, but only a very, very small effect, not worth the sacrifice of stopping masturbation or sex.

Anyway, this is all bull****

 

[optimystic]

I call bull****. On this thread, and on you.

In 2009 you were 20yrs old. Now you're an md investigating the effects of masturbation on male pattern baldness?

In 2009 I was Premed
In Aug 2010 i started med school
I am expected to graduate in April 2014
I am also in pretty good academic standard if I say so myself
And I am investigating hair loss for personal reasons, not academically
Academically, I am involved in many research topics that are related to my field of interest (which is NOT dermatology and has nothing to do with hair loss)

I only cite my MD to tell you I know my basic science, and I have research skill capable of differentiating between what we know and what we don't know
I am not saying on this thread that I KNOW ejaculation frequency affects hair loss.
I am saying that WE DON'T KNOW (research studies hasn't proven) that ejaculation frequency DOESN'T affect hair loss
And I am therefore saying that it might be a good idea to look into it

Why this topic is received with so much criticism, that I may never know...
I mean is it a cultural thing\taboo to bring up the topic? Is it denial? Is it deflection?
Or is it that once you have accepted that there is nothing you can do about hair loss, it gets too hard on you guys to try otherwise?

I understand guys. I am not unlike you. I am balding faster than most. If i was in my 30s and this was happening to me, I may have never visited this forum.
But I'm 24, and I'm looking for answers like any of you. And I have my preferences when it comes to treatment options, as is entitled to me.
And my curiosity is not misplaced, you guys are giving me bad rep but I'm sorry I don't think I deserve it.
I don't need to be on here posting my long posts. I don't even really need to know the answer to my question on whether ejaculation frequency affects hair loss, because I'm going to continue what I started 6 months ago anyway (ejaculate 3-4 max 5x per week, never twice a day. It's become sort of routine, one day on; one day off.)

Finding the answer to this question only satisfies my curiosity, and might be helpful to others. I'm not going to publish it or use it to make a profit or anything.
So why all the hate? Maybe cut me some slack and open your mind for a change what's the harm?

- - - Updated - - -

There's a guy in a latin-american forum who went eight months without masturbating. He said his hair did not got any better, nor did his shed slowed down. Truthto be told, he did not said if he also stopped sex or not (I suppose he did not, that would be insane and just plain stupid).

I may be wrong, but I do think that masturbation and sex can have a tiny impact on hair loss on those with a genetic predisposition to Androgenetic Alopecia. Masturbation and sex increase testosterona and DHT. So does steroids, and it is know that steroids accelerate hair-loss on people with Androgenetic Alopecia. Of course, I am not comparing masturbation with steroids, as masturbation elevates testosterone only a very little bit. So I do think it may have an effect on your hair, but only a very, very small effect, not worth the sacrifice of stopping masturbation or sex.

Anyway, this is all bull****

Well 8 months without masturbation seems odd to me.
I mean the goal would have to be to normalize your hormonal cycle. You don't want to throw it off balance in the other direction.

I don't know why people take this to such extremes.
I mean you don't spray minoxidil on your head and expect to grow new hairs wherever you spray it within a week, and then say "oh this stuff doesnt work" when that doesn't happen...
This too, is not a simple concept.
It's not like ejaculation causes hair loss, stop ejaculation and you will stop hair loss.
More like excessive (or maybe even too little) ejaculation causes a hormonal imbalance which may exacerbate hair loss significantly.
The period of time to see effect on hair loss might be years.
Like I said, when you lower DHT with finasteride you still have to wait months before you see an effect.
And perhaps when you adjust your ejaculation habits, it will be months BEFORE YOUR DHT IS LOWERED, which means it will take months after that to see an effect.
Perhaps because DHT is not lowered too fast, you won't experience the shedding phase you get when you start finasteride.
But the effects should be longer lasting and more natural than using finasteride.

 

[Jlyncher]

In 2009 I was Premed
In Aug 2010 i started med school
I am expected to graduate in April 2014
I am also in pretty good academic standard if I say so myself
And I am investigating hair loss for personal reasons, not academically
Academically, I am involved in many research topics that are related to my field of interest (which is NOT dermatology and has nothing to do with hair loss)

I only cite my MD to tell you I know my basic science, and I have research skill capable of differentiating between what we know and what we don't know
I am not saying on this thread that I KNOW ejaculation frequency affects hair loss.
I am saying that WE DON'T KNOW (research studies hasn't proven) that ejaculation frequency DOESN'T affect hair loss
And I am therefore saying that it might be a good idea to look into it

Why this topic is received with so much criticism, that I may never know...
I mean is it a cultural thing\taboo to bring up the topic? Is it denial? Is it deflection?
Or is it that once you have accepted that there is nothing you can do about hair loss, it gets too hard on you guys to try otherwise?

I understand guys. I am not unlike you. I am balding faster than most. If i was in my 30s and this was happening to me, I may have never visited this forum.
But I'm 24, and I'm looking for answers like any of you. And I have my preferences when it comes to treatment options, as is entitled to me.
And my curiosity is not misplaced, you guys are giving me bad rep but I'm sorry I don't think I deserve it.
I don't need to be on here posting my long posts. I don't even really need to know the answer to my question on whether ejaculation frequency affects hair loss, because I'm going to continue what I started 6 months ago anyway (ejaculate 3-4 max 5x per week, never twice a day. It's become sort of routine, one day on; one day off.)

Finding the answer to this question only satisfies my curiosity, and might be helpful to others. I'm not going to publish it or use it to make a profit or anything.
So why all the hate? Maybe cut me some slack and open your mind for a change what's the harm?

- - - Updated - - -



Well 8 months without masturbation seems odd to me.
I mean the goal would have to be to normalize your hormonal cycle. You don't want to throw it off balance in the other direction.

I don't know why people take this to such extremes.
I mean you don't spray minoxidil on your head and expect to grow new hairs wherever you spray it within a week, and then say "oh this stuff doesnt work" when that doesn't happen...
This too, is not a simple concept.
It's not like ejaculation causes hair loss, stop ejaculation and you will stop hair loss.
More like excessive (or maybe even too little) ejaculation causes a hormonal imbalance which may exacerbate hair loss significantly.
The period of time to see effect on hair loss might be years.
Like I said, when you lower DHT with finasteride you still have to wait months before you see an effect.
And perhaps when you adjust your ejaculation habits, it will be months BEFORE YOUR DHT IS LOWERED, which means it will take months after that to see an effect.
Perhaps because DHT is not lowered too fast, you won't experience the shedding phase you get when you start finasteride.
But the effects should be longer lasting and more natural than using finasteride.

Fair enough. However, I think your talents and research abilities would be better put to use and more appreciated in other areas of male pattern baldness treatment.
Are you familiar with wounding theory? There's hardly any concern over ejaculation frequency on that thread. It might be refreshing.

 

[drgs]

p**rn addicts who abstain from masturbation:
http://www.reuniting.info/download/pdf/0.BENEFITS.pdf

 

[Malin]

I'm sorry, I have to please my gf, so 7-8 a week. :/

 

[optimystic]

Fair enough. However, I think your talents and research abilities would be better put to use and more appreciated in other areas of male pattern baldness treatment.
Are you familiar with wounding theory? There's hardly any concern over ejaculation frequency on that thread. It might be refreshing.

Yes i have read about this theory and I believe what you are referring to is what follica's working on.
I try to find interim trial results but info is not easily available
It does look very promising, but who knows how long it will take for it to become commercially available, IF it ever does
I think that's gonna take patience more than anything

 

[Sterling Q.]

I appreciate that you are investigating the possible correlation, but I don't think the poll will create any meaningful results. For example, age is a huge factor for both male pattern baldness and frequency of ejaculation (for example refractory periods change greatly as we age and more so for some than others). Age is not a part of the poll, nor is male pattern baldness severity, or age of onset. The frequency distribution in this poll would likely closely match the frequency distribution of a population with no male pattern baldness. I think the poll needs more variables, but it will get hated on regardless.

It would be interesting to research whether or not older males with no refractory period experience male pattern baldness. It is a relatively small population. People on acne message boards debate this topic with the same level of contempt, if you are looking for other theories.

 

[abcdefg]

The answer is we dont have the answer and your guessing at something we dont know enough about yet to answer. The partial answer we have is castrated men dont go bald and that is proven. So working off the only thing in existence that stops male pattern baldness its safe to say androgens play a huge critical role in male pattern baldness. Can diet or what you ask here cause/slow male pattern baldness well you have to prove that androgen levels change and most likely no they dont so its most likely a waste of time.

 

[benjt]

Well, ejaculation has been shown to induce two things:
a) rise in serum DHT through an oxytocin burst
b) relaxin reduction - relaxin is a fibrotic collagen inhibitor

Masturbation is most certainly neither cause nor reason for male pattern baldness, but it might have a (probably negligible) impact on the speed with which male pattern baldness progresses, as higher DHT levels probably result in faster progress. With all likelihood this effect impact is very minor, though it does make sense to assume there might be an impact given the two modes of action here, i.e., oxytocin -> DHT, and relaxin -> fibrotic collagen.