Propecia - 5 days on and already quit - sides?

[HairLossHelpWanted]

I just recently tried Propecia, and here is a rundown of how things went:

To attempt to gradually get used to the drug, I cut my 1mg pills in half, and only took .5mg/day; in the morning, once daily.

Here's a recap:
Day 1: .5mg strong headache shortly after taking; sharp/strong, but short
Day 2: .5mg strong headache again
Day 3: .5mg felt okay
Day 4: .5mg felt okay; very noticeably softer erections, felt slightly off
Day 5: .5mg started to notice a slight change in breast size/shape; nothing major, but certainly noticeable by me. I'm not sure if others have noticed yet.

Day 6: Decided to stop the drug.

Before the test, I had the following results from a blood test:
478.10 --- Total Testosterone (normal range: 241-827)
11.7 ------ Free Testosterone (normal range: 9.3-26.5)

So far, the breast tenderness/change in size/shape has persisted (it's almost like there's an additional layer of fat on them, and also on my stomach/chest area); and the softer erections remain. It has only been 5 days, though.

Does anyone have any comments on if what I experienced was normal. Should I start back up on the drug? How long do these sides remain after stopping?

 

[Rawtashk]

I would feel fairly confident in saying "It's physically impossibly for gyno to manifest itself after 5 days"

How much were you worried about the sides when you started?

 

[Cassin]

Thats some pretty amazing physiology changes in 5 days...

Might want to go see a Dr post haste.

 

[Wuffer]

I honestly think you should stay off the drug; say you’ve tried it and move on. You are a fine example of how the mind can easily play tricks on you.

Gynecomastia takes months to develop, and it’s almost always associated with pain or tenderness in the breasts. 5 days is barely enough time for your DHT levels to even be lowered. Also, finasteride causes growth of breast tissue (similar to milk ducts and other associated tissues) as opposed to simply growing fat. Headaches are not a commonly reported side effect, so it's unlikely finasteride was the cause.

It seems like you started this drug extremely worried about what it would do to you. You are now already worried about side effects not going away. I honestly think you should stay away from the drug, at least until you are willing to start it in a different frame of mind.

 

[HairLossHelpWanted]

Hey guys, thanks for the tips. So far, I've been off finasteride for 10 days now. I have noticed that my nipples have pretty much returned to the same size they were pre-finasteride. I still feel like there's some enlargement in the breast area, though, but also feel like it's less noticeable. It's still quite tender near the upper region/near the armpits.

I was quite worried about the side effects before taking finasteride, but also felt some relief from worrying that I was not doing something that I could be in order to hopefully save my hair. I pretty much just started to take the pills (1/2 of the normal dose), and was less worried about my hair than I had been in the past year.

I had three separate days where I had a sharp pain/migraine like feeling in my head. Those were the first few days on Propecia. They lasted only a short while, though. I never have any headaches/migraines normally and was in a very low stress environment.

Before starting finasteride, I had already started to have weaker erections and less random erections. Even morning wood wasn't always that strong, and became less and less frequent. This had lasted for about six months and was all pre finasteride. It wasn't horrible before, but definitely noticeable. While on finasteride, the erections got even weaker.

The original cause could have been a very high stress period in my life, or possibly something to do with a condition called fructose malabsorption which I apparently developed as well in the past couple years. While eating a diet that is appropriate for fructose malabsorption, I noticed that the erections had started to return to normal after a couple weeks; but wasn't on the diet long enough to know if it was random chance, or a noticeable change. This diet is nearly impossible to stick with, unfortunately.

As for now, I'm planning on discontinuing the use of finasteride. I might have some more bloodwork done, and then consider getting back on it at some point soon. The only test I had before was for the total testosterone and free testosterone (results above).

 

[Rawtashk]

You were already having increasing ED/Libido problems before going on finasteride, took finasteride....and then blame finasteride for the fact that your ED/Libido problems kept increasing?

This....this is why I tend to look at 90% of "side effect" complaints as horsepoop.

 

[HairLossHelpWanted]

The ED/Libido issues had stabilized, and had been stable almost the entire duration of the six months. They worsened while on finasteride, and have since returned to their pre-finasteride state after being off it. From a grade of 1-10, with 10 being good, they were a 10 for almost all of my life; then a 7 for the past 6 months, and a 4 on finasteride. They are now back to a 7. Just a random scale to give an idea of the severity.

I expected the ED/Libido to worsen on finasteride, and was not surprised. That was not my reason for discontinuing use. I am currently reconsidering getting back on it at a later date. I'll be getting some additional bloodwork done soon.

 

[ghg]

finasteride induced gyno DOES NOT take months to develop. I had mine developed in a matter of days/weeks. I instantly felt soreness in my nipples and it wasn't long before my breasts started to feel puffier than before. It's easy to say "it's impossible" or "take it easy" for these who can tolerate propecia, but don't claim that everyone can.

 

[Chris87]

Let us know the results of your blood test. I'd be interested to see that

thank you

 

[HairLossHelpWanted]

Let us know the results of your blood test. I'd be interested to see that

thank you

I'll try and get the tests done and posted in the next few days. Does anyone have any recommendations for exactly what tests to have done? Here's a link to a list of blood tests I had found on a site a while back. So far, I've only had free testosterone/total testosterone done before taking propecia (posted above). Are all of these needed? Any others it's missing?

Total Testosterone
Free Testosterone
Bioavailable Testosterone
Androstenedione
Progesterone
DHT
3alpha-diol G (Androstenediol glucuronide -- ("Adiol-G" for short): metabolite of DHT, measures 5AR-II activity
Estradiol (E2)
LH
FSH
SHBG
Prolactin
TSH
CBC
AST
ALT
IGF-1

 

[HairLossHelpWanted]

Here are my test results:

1/13/12: Initial Blood Test
11.7 = Free Testosterone (9.3 to 26.5)
478.1 = Testosterone, Total (241 to 827)
10 = AST (SGOT), (15-37)
23 = ALT (SGPT), (12-78)
1.23 = TSH (.358-3.74)

I also have a lot of other tests done at this time, including CBC with diff and CMP

2/27/12: Begin Propecia (5 days, at 1/2 dose, .5mg)
3/2/12: Stop Propecia after noticing increased fat/tenderness around chest area, puffier nipples, "headaches (more like short migraines)", and slightly weaker erections

3/25/12: Test Results:
13.2 = Free Testosterone (9.3-26.5)
627.7 = Testosterone, Total (241-827)
2.2 = FSH (1.4-18.1)
9.7 = Prolactin (2.1-17.7)
28.89 = Estradiol, Estrogen (<=39.80)
1.05 = Progesterone (.28-1.22)

Tests the doctor didn't issue, or have available:
Androstenedione
DHT
Adiol-G
LH
SHBG

Other Tests:
Vitamin B12, Serum: >2000 (211-911)

As of today, all of the side effects have returned to normal. It is still almost like an increased layer of fat on my chest, that is noticeably different, but not horribly so. I have debated on whether or not to get on propecia again.

 

[Mestys]

5 days is barely enough time for your DHT levels to even be lowered.

Not true, from Propecia study:

"Finasteride produces a rapid reduction in serum DHT concentration, reaching 65%
suppression within 24 hours of oral dosing with a 1-mg tablet"

 

[stalley92]

5 days is barely enough time for your DHT levels to even be lowered.

Not true, from Propecia study:

"Finasteride produces a rapid reduction in serum DHT concentration, reaching 65%
suppression within 24 hours of oral dosing with a 1-mg tablet"

I have also seen this. What is the deal with Wuffer? does he sell finasteride?

 

[stalley92]

Finasteride produces a rapid reduction in serum DHT concentration, reaching 65%
suppression within 24 hours of oral dosing with a 1-mg tablet. Mean circulating levels of testosterone and

PROPECIA® (Finasteride) Tablets, 1 mg 9636009

estradiol were increased by approximately 15% as compared to baseline, but these remained within the
physiologic range.

 

[HairLossHelpWanted]

Okay, so it's been a month or so since I last took any finasteride, and I am still feeling like there is added fat around my breasts. It feels very tender around the upper armpit area as well. I was only on it for 5 days, at a reduced level. If I did have any changes, is there anything that can be done for it? Does it go away or reduce after a while?

Anyone have any tenderness/enlargement like this and decide to continue on finasteride? If so, what were the results after continuing? Did it get worse? Sorry for the million questions, but this is something that is important to me, but yet something that I have no idea what to do. It seems like if you want to save your hair, you have to take Propecia; especially if you are having any recession at the temples. Even hair transplants typically seem to require you to go on Propecia after the fact. I am back on the Rogaine foam, once per night, but do not believe I have had any real progress with it either.

 

[Wuffer]

5 days is barely enough time for your DHT levels to even be lowered.

Not true, from Propecia study:

"Finasteride produces a rapid reduction in serum DHT concentration, reaching 65%
suppression within 24 hours of oral dosing with a 1-mg tablet"

You are right; thanks for clarifying that, my mistake.

 

[Wuffer]

5 days is barely enough time for your DHT levels to even be lowered.

Not true, from Propecia study:

"Finasteride produces a rapid reduction in serum DHT concentration, reaching 65%
suppression within 24 hours of oral dosing with a 1-mg tablet"

I have also seen this. What is the deal with Wuffer? does he sell finasteride?

If you are suggesting I am some sort of a shill, you are incorrect. I have never even suggested anyone take brand name propecia, rather, opt for the much cheaper generic 5mg alternatives. I've never even purchased a Merck product in my life. However, my girlfriend does use the Merck branded Nuva-ring, which I do benefit from.

I never claimed to be an expert, and I do make mistakes. I'm glad someone called me out on that one.

 

[Rawtashk]

Wuffer! Welcome to the "he doesn't have any finasteride sides, therefore he must be a schill for finasteride!!"

Yes, because telling people to buy generic finasteride would make someone soooo much money! I don't understand why these boards are so negative. People want to believe SO BADLY that finasteride is so horrible. I get frustrated with outlooks like that....

 

[BritishUser]

Seems to be a lot of talk about finasteride lowering both testosterone and free-testosterone. Your results seem to show that both have been raised.

 

[HairLossHelpWanted]

**UPDATE**

My doctor seemed to confirm the gyno and was worried about a couple of "lumps" that were on outer side of my chest, around the armpit area/outer breasts. I do not seem to have any hard lump underneath my nipples as far as I can tell. I am not sure if these develop immediately? The doctor requested that I immediately get an ultrasound done, as well as an MRI of my brain. The brain MRI I believe was to test for hormonal related items, as the endocrinologist appointment was a couple months out.

I also had the following blood tests done (standard range in parenthesis, this test results as well as previous results in brackets):

-HCG, Quant (1 to 3mIU/ml): <1
-TSH, Thyroid (.358 to 3.74): 1.08 [1.23, late 2011, pre-propecia]
-Estradiol, Estrogen (<=39.80): 17.03 [28.89, right after taking propecia]
-Lutinizing Hormone (1.50 to 9.30): 5.63
-Prolactin (2.1 to 17.7): 5.90 [9.70, right after taking propecia]
-CMP Comprehensive Metabolic Panel, items of note are shown:
--Glucose (74 to 106): 72
--Creatinine (.60 to 1.30): 1.30 [1.0, 1.0, both pre-propecia]
--BUN/Creatinine Ratio (7 to 20): 10.8 [16,22, both pre-propecia]
--Alkaline Phosphatase (50 to 136): 42 [39,45 pre-propecia]
--AST, SGOT (15 to 37): 12 [10,10 pre-propecia]
--ALT, SGPT (12 to 78): 23 [28,23 pre-propecia]

I had the ultrasound and brain MRI today. The results from the ultrasound were good, and nothing was found, including any gyno. The MRI results come back in a few days. I was very encouraged until I read on gynecomastia.org that ultrasound results are not that reliable.

The following symptoms remain:
-headaches that often occur later on in the day (I never had these before)
-apparent gyno, that is still tender/uncomfortable at times; again, I feel this more often later on in the day; I believe I just feel the breast bone/ribs underneath the nipple and no hard lump. What I feel, and what the doctor felt, is on the outer sides of the breast, from under the armpits down the side.
-occasional tiredness, falling asleep or being very tired when I shouldn't be..for example, right after eating a couple hours after a good 8 hours of sleep
-slightly weaker erections, and possible decline in sex drive

Does anyone have any comments as to the reliability of the ultrasound tests? Since I am still in the beginning 5 months of the possible gyno, if it is gyno, I would hope to be able to try to stop it if at all possible. For some reason, the doctor did not retest testosterone levels (it was 5pm in the day, though, so I assume they would have been lower anyway).