PROPECIA CAN KILL YOUR HAIR.

[bubka]

it's either genetic, or you have lived in Chernobyl

 

[pologuy514]

Jebus, so you say oral spiral helped out your hair. Are you sure the oral sprio you bought is ligament? I've been on Propecia for a year now and it has maintained alright but I'd like to give it a boost somehow. Thanks for your input.

-Pologuy

 

[Aplunk1]

I can't believe that you get noticeable results from internal spironolactone within a month.

No, really. I can't believe that. It's not plausible. A hair follicle is an organ that takes many months before any noticeable change can occur.

 

[MacAttack]

Hmm...f*** me...this sounds exactly like me with the damn pimples in the scalp...I think my hairlines improved but my hair on the top of my head is practically invisible in most lights...f*** man...now ur making me wanna quit my 2 years of proscar taking.

 

[I_Hate_DHT]

it's either genetic, or you have lived in Chernobyl

Yep, you have definitely lived in Chernobyl... :roll:

 

[kypro]

I 100% agree with the hypothesis that propecia can kill your hair!

Having used it since December 2005 I can confirm now that my hair is about 40% of the density it once was! The back and SIDES even have been TOTALLY decimated by incessant, constant shedding.

All this talk of "ride it out" so I did on and on and on but to no avail

the top is terribly thin now...

theonly reason i began the drug was for SLIGHT frontal thinning abut now my whole head is paying the price

I stopped using it 2 months ago and dabble with dutasteride a bit but that has caused an even more horrendous shed

I say some peoplare ALLERGIc to dht blockers

John

 

[RaginDemon]

could the high T level be the reason of your hair loss?

 

[1750]

if propecia is causing you acne it probably means that your T levels are very high and the excess is converting to estrogen....
High testsoterone and high estrogen levels are not condusive to growing back your hair....

 

[cleverusername]

I agree with this too. I have been on fincar for a little over 2 months now and after just taking a photo the damage is obvious. For some reason it felt like it was thickening in the crown but i guess it was my head playing tricks on me I have also been using nizoral for about a month. I notice at night there is always a sticky/oily substance all around my hairline that i can actually wipe off my forehead. Prior to fincar i didn't have this problem. I think its time to switch to the foam.

I had my testosterone tested years ago and it was really high so maybe finasteride is a bad idea for me to begin with.

God this is all so depressing.

june 07

today sept 07

so there, for that a**h** who always says nobody posts photos to prove propecia sucks...well here there are.

 

[Felk]

:stupid:

....

Seriously.

What the hell is wrong with this forum at the moment?

Someone posts a load of scaremongering trollop, with gaping holes in his "scientific" hypothesis, and everyone jumps on the bandwagon as quickly as if a hot girl in a bikini just shouted "free beer!"

If propecia is giving you acne.. then in your body, it isn't DHT causing acne, its testosterone. And if testosterone is giving you acne, then chances are it will also be killing your hair.

What are you basing this genius idea on? Certainly nothing scientific. Evidence please.

Ironically I threw spironolactone in a test patch over 1 month and BAM, hair thickened up.

Oh yes, cos hair responds this quickly. Your hair can't thicken up in a month.

In any case, blocking the androgen receptor would have a similar effect to castration (i.e. cessation of circulating androgens) which is a halt in the progression of further baldness, not regrowth. Let alone regrowth in a month

:jackit:

You'll find you respond with spironolactone quite well.

Now I'm a fan of the idea of spironolactone cream, but the results of everyone using it have never been that impressive, if existent at all. Once again, evidence please.

Note - spironolactone is an androgen receptor blocker, so it works against both testosterone and DHT. Using spironolactone should have the same result, regardless of whether DHT or testosterone is the problem.

 

[bathtbgin]

whats wrong with this forum? forgive me for being blunt as i've only been here a few days but i think one of the problems has to do with the fact that not many people actually go to a Dr. If your having side effects or problems with a medication, generally you would talk to a dr about it. But if you just decided that "hey i'm loosing my hair, bob on the net says this works so i'll order some" and then you start having problems then its your own fault. and no offense to Dr. Jeebus but propecia doesnt work for everyone, it even says that on their website. So if you are having problems with your medication, still loosing your hair, think it might be testosterone related TALK TO YOUR DR.

 

[vipergts]

Talk to a DR? You kiddin me? Most people on this site have more knowledge than 99 percent of GP's out there. I have been to 4 very reputable doctors here in Washington DC. But they were completely ignorant about Hairloss and couldn't even explain how Propecia worked. Most doctors dont give a crap about cosmetic conditions like hairloss. Even for those doctors who are experts (for ex Dr Lee), what the heck would they recommend? If Propecia, dutasteride, minoxidil don't work for you, then the only other option is an hair transplant or shave your head. So sad that even in this day and age there is still no CURE for hairloss. People are still using blood pressure and prostate drugs to treat hairloss. What a f'in pity

whats wrong with this forum? forgive me for being blunt as i've only been here a few days but i think one of the problems has to do with the fact that not many people actually go to a Dr. If your having side effects or problems with a medication, generally you would talk to a dr about it. But if you just decided that "hey i'm loosing my hair, bob on the net says this works so i'll order some" and then you start having problems then its your own fault. and no offense to Dr. Jeebus but propecia doesnt work for everyone, it even says that on their website. So if you are having problems with your medication, still loosing your hair, think it might be testosterone related TALK TO YOUR DR.

 

[bathtbgin]

whats wrong with this forum? forgive me for being blunt as i've only been here a few days but i think one of the problems has to do with the fact that not many people actually go to a Dr. If your having side effects or problems with a medication, generally you would talk to a dr about it. But if you just decided that "hey i'm loosing my hair, bob on the net says this works so i'll order some" and then you start having problems then its your own fault. and no offense to Dr. Jeebus but propecia doesnt work for everyone, it even says that on their website. So if you are having problems with your medication, still loosing your hair, think it might be testosterone related TALK TO YOUR DR.

ah i see, the people on teh interweb know more than a Dr. When i went to my GP, i got checked for a whole host of conditions including thyroid problems. And Yes i got a prescription for propecia from my GP only after ruling out other treatable causes. When i started breaking out, i went to see a dermatologist and asked him about using both minoxidil and propecia. He didnt see a problem with it, and even suggested trying only minoxidil for a while because of propecia's list of side effects. But the one thing he did not say was that because i had acne, that the propecia was not working. Incidentally, i got acne and my hair started to grow back before the rogaine would have started working.
I have issues with people who order stuff from an online pharmacy and self medicate and then if they start having bad side effects they come to the forum for answers when they should really be seeking advice from a Dr.

 

[E=mc2]

I have issues with people who order stuff from an online pharmacy and self medicate and then if they start having bad side effects they come to the forum for answers when they should really be seeking advice from a Dr.

I see the merits of both resources and, in my mind, each compliment the other. Many physicians are simply uninformed about treatments for male pattern baldness let alone cutting edge research and scientifically researched "homeopathic" treatments. They are simply too busy with the wide scope of their practice to stay up on much of the information we take for "basic" here on HairLossTalk.com.

That being said...a physician should always be involved if there are concerns with the efficacy or side effects of prescription medication....especially ones involving the body’s natural hormonal balance, of which finasteride and dutasteride are but two examples. There is nothing wrong with people coming on these boards to educate themselves or use info here as a springboard for further research...even before consulting with a physician....just not to the exclusion of a licensed, knowledgeable medical practitioner.

 

[flimflam]

What the hell is wrong with this forum at the moment?

I'm so glad you're on here. Keep it up

 

[E=mc2]

What the hell is wrong with this forum at the moment?

I'm so glad you're on here. Keep it up

Hell yeah :agree:

 

[Felk]

Cheers int:

 

[evildude]

:stupid:

....

Seriously.

What the hell is wrong with this forum at the moment?

Someone posts a load of scaremongering trollop, with gaping holes in his "scientific" hypothesis, and everyone jumps on the bandwagon as quickly as if a hot girl in a bikini just shouted "free beer!"

If propecia is giving you acne.. then in your body, it isn't DHT causing acne, its testosterone. And if testosterone is giving you acne, then chances are it will also be killing your hair.

What are you basing this genius idea on? Certainly nothing scientific. Evidence please.

[quote:82872]Ironically I threw spironolactone in a test patch over 1 month and BAM, hair thickened up.

Oh yes, cos hair responds this quickly. Your hair can't thicken up in a month.

In any case, blocking the androgen receptor would have a similar effect to castration (i.e. cessation of circulating androgens) which is a halt in the progression of further baldness, not regrowth. Let alone regrowth in a month

:jackit:

You'll find you respond with spironolactone quite well.

Now I'm a fan of the idea of spironolactone cream, but the results of everyone using it have never been that impressive, if existent at all. Once again, evidence please.

Note - spironolactone is an androgen receptor blocker, so it works against both testosterone and DHT. Using spironolactone should have the same result, regardless of whether DHT or testosterone is the problem.[/quote:82872]


here's a couple of quotes from dr.proctor:

Question:
I had a bad reaction to Propecia, including severe shedding (especially in the front) that commenced within a few days of starting Propecia, and stopped within a few days of stopping Propecia. I'm assuming this is Reflex Hyperandrogenicity (let's call it R.H.).

Could it be that I have a particularly low tolerance to the effects of Propecia, and that if I take less (say perhaps 1/4 of a pill per day, or every couple of days) that I'll avoid the R.H.

I suppose to word it another way, is the R.H. caused by the inhibition of just too much 5ar, making it so if I inhibit less, I may avoid it while still getting the benefits of Propecia ?

Dr Proctor Answers:
Shedding that occurs before about 2-4 months after starting a treatment was of hair that was already in the loss phase when you started. That is, such hair shedding is just coincidental or due to early fallout of loss-phase hair as follicles come out of dormancy under the influence of a hair-growth-stimulator. This hair was about to fall out anyway.

Not that hair loss due to reflex hyperandrogenicity doesn't occasionally happen with Finasteride. However, Finasteride (Propecia) differentially "protects" hair follicles. Thus, enough reflex hyproandrogenicity to exacerbate balding is very likely to be associated with other hyperandrogenic symptoms such as increased libido, skin oiliness, etc. In the absence of these, I consider it unlikely. So you can rest reasonably easily. I hope....

Peter H Proctor, PhD, MD




Question:
What exactly is reflex hyperandrogenicity and what causes it? Is it when the androgen receptors become more sensitive to DHT or is it an increase in overall testosterone that negatively impacts the follicles. Also, should a topical antiandrogen counter this effect?

Dr Proctor Answers:
Reflex hyperandrogenicity is caused by a combination of increased testosterone and increased tissue sensitivity to male sex hormones ( androgens ). The latter is cause at least partially by an increase in the numbers of androgen receptors. Whether the receptors also get more sensitive is not clear, but seems likely.

Reflex hyperandrogenicity is proportional to the strength of an antiandrogen. It limits the use of antiandrogens in (e.g.) treatment of prostate cancer and is why most such patients get castrated.

Because the action of Finasteride is mostly limited to tissues where type-2 5-AR is the important source of androgenic activity, it elicits less reflex hyperandrogenicity than other antiandrogens when used to treat hair loss or prostate enlargement. So this is usually not limiting in hair loss-treatment, at least in the short run. It may even help minimize side-effects such as libido decrease during the use iof finasteride for hair loss. Whether this is also true for Dutasteride ( which blocks both type-1 and type-2 5 Alphareductases ) is not clear yet. And yes, topical antiandrogens such as spironolactone, which do not elicit the increase in testosterone, are likely helpful.

Peter H Proctor, PhD, MD

point is, the increased testosterone levels caused by 5-ar inhibition, combined with increased tissue sensitivity, could cause further hairloss. also refered to as Reflex Hyperandrogenicity. it is very rare, but it happens. the body compansates for the lowered dht levels, by adjusting the number of androgen receptors(and maybe their sensitivity to androgens as well).

good news is, though, that you're likely to see a number of other symptoms as well. oily face and increased libido are the most common ones.

 

[Felk]

If you see my post you'll notice nothing I said contradicted what Proctor wrote about hyperandrogenicity. I'm not refuting that propecia can potentially harm your hair.

I was replying specifically to the obviously rubbish claims Jebus made, the ones people seemed to be swallowing. That's, um, why I quoted them

 

[ginger-uk]

:stupid:

....

Seriously.

What the hell is wrong with this forum at the moment?

Someone posts a load of scaremongering trollop, with gaping holes in his "scientific" hypothesis, and everyone jumps on the bandwagon as quickly as if a hot girl in a bikini just shouted "free beer!"

If propecia is giving you acne.. then in your body, it isn't DHT causing acne, its testosterone. And if testosterone is giving you acne, then chances are it will also be killing your hair.

What are you basing this genius idea on? Certainly nothing scientific. Evidence please.

[quote:7e867]Ironically I threw spironolactone in a test patch over 1 month and BAM, hair thickened up.

Oh yes, cos hair responds this quickly. Your hair can't thicken up in a month.

In any case, blocking the androgen receptor would have a similar effect to castration (i.e. cessation of circulating androgens) which is a halt in the progression of further baldness, not regrowth. Let alone regrowth in a month

:jackit:

You'll find you respond with spironolactone quite well.

Now I'm a fan of the idea of spironolactone cream, but the results of everyone using it have never been that impressive, if existent at all. Once again, evidence please.

Note - spironolactone is an androgen receptor blocker, so it works against both testosterone and DHT. Using spironolactone should have the same result, regardless of whether DHT or testosterone is the problem.[/quote:7e867]


So spironolactone will directly lower testosterone? That surely gives man boobs and hissy fits? Sod that... :lost: