Proxiphen - What? How?

[outgrowth]

Does anyone here believe in this BEFORE/AFTER pictures about PROXIPHEN: http://www.anagen.net/proxin.htm ???????????????????

 

[Buffboy]

*Runs for cover*

Oh dear...

Why are you saying this, did I ask the wrong question?

 

[Buffboy]

d

 

[Bryan]

*Runs for cover*

Oh dear...

Why are you saying this, did I ask the wrong question?

They're joking because I've been extremely skeptical of Xandrox in the past!

There is absolutely no in vivo evidence whatever that topical azelaic acid functions as a 5a-reductase inhibitor. In fact, there is even some in vivo evidence that it does NOT do that. I think Dr. Lee is kidding himself if he really thinks that it reduces DHT "by up to 98%", or whatever his claim is.

Bryan

 

[Bryan]

Does anyone here believe in this BEFORE/AFTER pictures about PROXIPHEN: http://www.anagen.net/proxin.htm ???????????????????

I have been wondering about this picture - especially because it's the ONLY picture. I do think it's real, but I also think that this guy is the best Proxiphen responder alive. Meaning, this picture gives you a totally false image on what to expect on Proxiphen.

You are correct on both counts.

It doesn't seem to go very well with the things Dr. Proctor says on his website, about being realistic and don't expect major regrowth etc. Then why the f*ck do you post a slick bald guy that have a full head of hair after 9 months?? That is misleading.

Well, it IS rather misleading, but a lot of other companies/products would do the same thing, so I can't really fault Dr. Proctor all that much. I'd be perfectly fine with those pics, myself, if he'd simply add a sentence under them saying something like: "Photos of a good responder", or something like that.

Bryan

 

[Buffboy]

d

 

[G-man]

I am new to the site and not currently doing anything. After reading this post I am interested in Prox. Would you recommend starting with Prox-N and check results or simply go straight to Prox presciption?

 

[Buffboy]

I don't see any reason why you don't should go straight at Proxiphen. Don't make my mistake and waist years because you thought that ONE product should be enough. I'm making an all-out attack, with finasteride, nizoral and Proxi. If this doesn't work, nothing will.

 

[PartTimeNinja]

Thanks guys for your replies. I do still want to wait a couple of months before adding anything to my regimen. I have been on finasteride for 9 1/2 months now and I have been shedding a lot! I hit another massive shed around month 7 and it's still charging full strength! My hair is looking crappier than ever! damn! I want to ad to my regimen if this doesn't turn around real soon - but I'm loosing hope. I have not yet tried out minoxidil

my questions are:
- Should I try minoxidil before Proxiphen?
- I'm now thinning on the crown/hairline/temples and vertex. Would one tube of Proxiphen still last me a couple of months?

Thanks guys - you have been a great help!

To the top with this question! :roll:

 

[Bryan]

- Should I try minoxidil before Proxiphen?

If you have the $$$, why not go for the best right away? All minoxidil does is provide an offset of growth; I think Proxiphen does more than that.

- I'm now thinning on the crown/hairline/temples and vertex. Would one tube of Proxiphen still last me a couple of months?

Personally, I'd be tempted to try it at half the recommended dose...

Bryan

 

[PartTimeNinja]

Thanks for your reply Bryan. So you are saying that I should just apply half of the recommend dose on the full area and that should give me 2 months worth of Proxiphen?

Cost is very important at this issue - but more importantly I want the best option. It also appeals to me that I can apply to only once a day and at night. Much easier to deal with. So basically I'll be looking at $600 for the first year and then $300 for the second? (that is if it's working.)

My hair is not buzzed and it find it hard to imagine apply such a small amount on a head of hair. This is possible for sure?

Buffboy - how application for you? Seen any good signs so far?

cheers guys!

 

[Buffboy]

d

 

[Temples]

They're joking because I've been extremely skeptical of Xandrox in the past!

There is absolutely no in vivo evidence whatever that topical azelaic acid functions as a 5a-reductase inhibitor. In fact, there is even some in vivo evidence that it does NOT do that. I think Dr. Lee is kidding himself if he really thinks that it reduces DHT "by up to 98%", or whatever his claim is.

Bryan

Bryan, here's part of my consultation e-mail response I received from Dr. Lee:

Questions: Will the azelaic acid in 5% Xandrox inhibit enough DHT now that I'm no longer taking Finasteride?

"In most cases azelaic acid will. Azelaic acid will inhibit the synthesis of all of the hormones in the 17-hydroxy group, which would include testosterone, DHT and androstenediol, the most potent of the androgens.  Azelaic acid does not work primarily by inhibiting the 5-alpha reductase enzymes like Propecia does. Propecia will lower the serum level of DHT by 60-80%, but Merck also reports that 5 mg of finasteride daily lowers the  scalp DHT by approximately 38% scalp without providing any additional protection from the residual 62% DHT. The  DHT reduction at the follicle is far less than the 60%-80% because the predominant enzyme that converts testosterone to  DHT in the scalp is type 1, 5-alpha reductase which is not affected by finasteride."

Here's a link on Dr. Lee's research regarding azelaic acid:

https://www.xandrox.com/journal.htm#Inhibition

Now, could you please explain in layman's terms for retards (me) your side vs. Dr. Lee's?

 

[Bryan]

Now, could you please explain in layman's terms for retards (me) your side vs. Dr. Lee's?

I would be happy to do that! Let's take the statements that Dr. Lee made point-by-point. I'll answer as simply as possible:

most cases azelaic acid will. Azelaic acid will inhibit the synthesis of all of the hormones in the 17-hydroxy group, which would include testosterone, DHT and androstenediol, the most potent of the androgens.

What is Dr. Lee's reference for that statement?? I suppose it could CONCEIVABLY be true, but why doesn't he post a reference for it? There is nothing that I could find on his Web site that mentions that, other than the Stamatiadis study which only looked at the alleged inhibition of 5a-reductase by azelaic acid. Where is the citation proving that it also inhibits the production of testosterone and androstenediol?

Azelaic acid does not work primarily by inhibiting the 5-alpha reductase enzymes like Propecia does.

Really? How DOES it primarily work, and what is the proof?

Propecia will lower the serum level of DHT by 60-80%, but Merck also reports that 5 mg of finasteride daily lowers the scalp DHT by approximately 38% scalp without providing any additional protection from the residual 62% DHT.

Where is the reference for THAT particular claim?? Here's a conflicting report in a fairly recent study done by a team of heavy-hitters in dermatology: "The Effects of Finasteride on Scalp Skin and Serum Androgen Levels in Men with Androgenetic Alopecia", Drake et al, J Amer Acad Dermatol 1999;41:550-4. They found that levels of DHT in the scalp declined by 69.4% with 5 mg of finasteride per day.

The DHT reduction at the follicle is far less than the 60%-80% because the predominant enzyme that converts testosterone to DHT in the scalp is type 1, 5-alpha reductase which is not affected by finasteride.

Bullshit. It's now becoming recognized that the 5a-reductase in the dermal papilla (that's the "control-center" of the hair follicle) is almost exclusively the type 2 variety, not type 1. Dr. Lee is confusing FOLLICLES with SKIN. The 5a-reductase in skin sebaceous glands is indeed type 1, but in the follicle dermal papillae it's type 2. Dr. Lee is behind the times! :wink: See the following excellent study:

Arch Dermatol Res. 1999 Feb-Mar;291(2-3):100-3. "Finasteride is the main inhibitor of 5alpha-reductase activity in microdissected dermal papillae of human hair follicles." Hoffmann R, Happle R.

They found that a small amount of finasteride (a specific type 2 inhibitor) almost completely stopped the production of DHT in freshly-dissected human scalp hair follicle dermal papillae, whereas MK386 (a specific type 1 inhibitor) had no consistent effect at all on DHT production.

Bryan

 

[Temples]

Thank you for your take. I already ordered Xandrox 5% so I'll give you an update about 4-6 months from now. I dropped finasteride, so I'm curious how my new regimen will pan out.

 

[Homie]

Fellas, I just ordered Prox-N and Nano shampoo.

I didn't go with prescription Proxiphen despite the fact that I live in Pearland (right by Houston) because I have spironolactone, retin-e and phenytoin (however it is spelled) already.

You guys (Bryan in particular) also mentioned that other ingredients Prox contains that Prox-N does not is Tempol, PBN, and others. Is there a way to find out what the others all?

Also, where can I order Tempol, PBN, and the others? I am going to use dermovan and make a topical that contains the ingredients that Prox-N lacks compared to Prox, and use more Prox-N with the money I save on the cost of the Prox.

Any help is appreciated.

 

[Bryan]

You guys (Bryan in particular) also mentioned that other ingredients Prox contains that Prox-N does not is Tempol, PBN, and others. Is there a way to find out what the others all?

Oh my God...the exact contents of Proxiphen is one of Dr. Proctor's "State Secrets"!!

You might just as well call-up Los Alamos National Laboratories and ask them, "Excuse me, I'm doing some home nuclear experimentation...can you please tell me EXACTLY how much U-235 I need to achieve a critical mass??"

Also, where can I order Tempol, PBN, and the others? I am going to use dermovan and make a topical that contains the ingredients that Prox-N lacks compared to Prox, and use more Prox-N with the money I save on the cost of the Prox.

Generally, those things are CHEMICALS and can only be bought from chemical companies (with the standard problems of buying from those companies). However, there is an increasing interest in substances like PBN among "life-extender" types, so you MAY be able to find a source for it somewhere that you can purchase online. However, it may or may not be available as a pure powder, and the stuff is pretty expensive. Furthermore, the exact details of how much to use and what kind of vehicles it's compatible with are pretty much things that only Dr. Proctor knows about. You're getting yourself in pretty deep, if you're serious about attempting to formulate these things on your own...

Bryan

 

[cruiser]

stupid question, but..... has anyone on this site used prox for any amount of time? results? $100/month wow it should frikkin work

 

[cruiser]

anyone? :roll:

 

[Buffboy]

Haven't you read this thread?