Religion and Balding?

[BiteMe]

Marx and Lenin said it right:

Religion is opium for the people. / Religion is opium of the people.


BTW, BiteMe your attitude is commonly refered to as "fideism".

bis

Hmm...you quote Marx and Lenin about religion? Ummm, yeah. Ok. That makes a lot of sense.

The founders of the worlds most suppresive form of government lecturing the rest of us on the pitfalls of religion. :roll:

Ok Bis...whatever.

Neither you understand these sentences nor you know Marx.

Dude...I'm affraid I know exactly what the intent of the sentences was. I just think the men you have quoted have been thoroughly discredited by history. They were never informed enough to appreciate faith.

Indeed...It was socialism that became the opiate for the masses wasn't it?

 

[Bismarck]

Marx and Lenin said it right:

Religion is opium for the people. / Religion is opium of the people.


BTW, BiteMe your attitude is commonly refered to as "fideism".

bis

Hmm...you quote Marx and Lenin about religion? Ummm, yeah. Ok. That makes a lot of sense.

The founders of the worlds most suppresive form of government lecturing the rest of us on the pitfalls of religion. :roll:

Ok Bis...whatever.

Neither you understand these sentences nor you know Marx.

Dude...I'm affraid I know exactly what the intent of the sentences was. I just think the men you have quoted have been thoroughly discredited by history. They were never informed enough to appreciate faith.

Indeed...It was socialism that became the opiate for the masses wasn't it?

That Lenin and or Marx said that doesn't change the truth of these sentences. Corncerning Marx, I think you mix up sth.

bis

 

[Petchsky]

Marx and Lenin said it right:

Religion is opium for the people. / Religion is opium of the people.


BTW, BiteMe your attitude is commonly refered to as "fideism".

bis

Hmm...you quote Marx and Lenin about religion? Ummm, yeah. Ok. That makes a lot of sense.

The founders of the worlds most suppresive form of government lecturing the rest of us on the pitfalls of religion. :roll:

Ok Bis...whatever.

Neither you understand these sentences nor you know Marx.

Dude...I'm affraid I know exactly what the intent of the sentences was. I just think the men you have quoted have been thoroughly discredited by history. They were never informed enough to appreciate faith.

Indeed...It was socialism that became the opiate for the masses wasn't it?

To anyone who has studied or even read Karl Marx knows that your evaluation of him is incorrect and your lumping it together with Soviet socialism and thinking therefore he must be bad. Socialism is not Marxism, although it incorporated some of it's ideas, which are great in theory but it didn't work in practice. Mainly in my analysis because it goes against human nature but it goes alot deeper than that and i won't ramble on about it... only about 1 in 50 of you would actually give a toss...

Don't want to seem like i'm lecturing you... I'm currently studying Sociology and have a personal interest in it.

Safe.

 

[Bismarck]

Marx and Lenin said it right:

Religion is opium for the people. / Religion is opium of the people.


BTW, BiteMe your attitude is commonly refered to as "fideism".

bis

Hmm...you quote Marx and Lenin about religion? Ummm, yeah. Ok. That makes a lot of sense.

The founders of the worlds most suppresive form of government lecturing the rest of us on the pitfalls of religion. :roll:

Ok Bis...whatever.

Neither you understand these sentences nor you know Marx.

Dude...I'm affraid I know exactly what the intent of the sentences was. I just think the men you have quoted have been thoroughly discredited by history. They were never informed enough to appreciate faith.

Indeed...It was socialism that became the opiate for the masses wasn't it?

To anyone who has studied or even read Karl Marx knows that your evaluation of him is incorrect and your lumping it together with Soviet socialism and thinking therefore he must be bad. Socialism is not Marxism, although it incorporated some of it's ideas, which are great in theory but it didn't work in practice. Mainly in my analysis because it goes against human nature but it goeds alot deper than that and probably 1 in 50 of you would actually give a toss...

Don't want to seem like i'm lecturing you... I'm currently studying Sociology and have a personal interest in it.

Safe.

Oh thank you so much Petch! Couldn't have said it better with my poor English.
When you visit China, you'll be certainly reminded to Marx's accumulation theory... :wink:

bis

 

[Petchsky]

The China experience will be unique as they are communist country that has incorporated a free market economy...should be interesting to say the least, hopefully i will be an expert on China by the time i get back. 8)

 

[BiteMe]

The China experience will be unique as they are communist country that has incorporated a free market economy...should be interesting to say the least, hopefully i will be an expert on China by the time i get back. 8)

China's economy is definitely NOT free market...although they would love to have you think it is.

 

[fallicule]

I think we can agree that if one positive thing came out of this thread it's we all got our post count up going back and forth. I'm on my way to becoming an experienced poster!

 

[BiteMe]

Marx and Lenin said it right:

Religion is opium for the people. / Religion is opium of the people.


BTW, BiteMe your attitude is commonly refered to as "fideism".

bis

Hmm...you quote Marx and Lenin about religion? Ummm, yeah. Ok. That makes a lot of sense.

The founders of the worlds most suppresive form of government lecturing the rest of us on the pitfalls of religion. :roll:

Ok Bis...whatever.

Neither you understand these sentences nor you know Marx.

Dude...I'm affraid I know exactly what the intent of the sentences was. I just think the men you have quoted have been thoroughly discredited by history. They were never informed enough to appreciate faith.

Indeed...It was socialism that became the opiate for the masses wasn't it?

To anyone who has studied or even read Karl Marx knows that your evaluation of him is incorrect and your lumping it together with Soviet socialism and thinking therefore he must be bad. Socialism is not Marxism, although it incorporated some of it's ideas, which are great in theory but it didn't work in practice. Mainly in my analysis because it goes against human nature but it goes alot deeper than that and i won't ramble on about it... only about 1 in 50 of you would actually give a toss...

Don't want to seem like i'm lecturing you... I'm currently studying Sociology and have a personal interest in it.

Safe.

I don't feel like I've been lectured to. No problem. I actually find this stuff interesting.

Ok...first off- I didn't associate Marx with Soviet style socialism. I associated him w/ socialism in general. I understand that the Soviet model was different than say, the German or French model.

I will acknowledge that I have not read his book. But I have studied him and his philosophies....Basically they sound good on paper but don't wash in reality. As you already observed, they are contrary to human nature.

Anyway, the point I was trying raise with Bismark was that socialism was more of an opiate than religion is because of the way it takes control of so many aspects of it subjects lives and attempts to make them all the same.

You know, socialism tends to reward those who show little effort and punish those who display excesses of it. In that respect, many people will gravitate toward the 'free-ride' mentality and resist the need to fend for oneself.

I know it's much deeper than that but I didn't want to get into writing another book on this board.

 

[fallicule]

I always wondered what a quote inside a quote inside a quote inside a quote inside a quote would look like. Saddest part: i'm not even kidding.

 

[The Gardener]

I prefer Adam Smith to Marx. Humans, by nature, are lazy and need incentive to get off their asses. If you pay people not to work, they won't work! Adam Smith understood this.

Where is the 'stick' in Marxism to get people to work?

That being said.... Show me the money!!!

 

[Hotlegs]

Idiot??? ...yeah right. :roll:

maybe, maybe not.

You just don't f*****g get it do you?

No, I don't get it, I have never got it, no one has ever managed to brow beat me into dropping to my knees and begging to a diety.

I could care less if you choose to think God/Religion/the Old Testament or WHATEVER is the cause of humanity's ails. I'm not telling you to believe sh*t...understand? Believe whatever the hell you want.

Thank you for granting me this freedom.

I'm pretty sure I made that clear to you. I won't try to quash your free will to say whatever...you don't try to quash mine. I will disagree with many points you make, just as you are disagreeing with mine....In no way is this a mandate to "believe".

It appears you are incapable of seperating the *FAITH* from those whose practice it (or portend to). Seriously, can you not understand the distinction between the two? It sounds as if you can't.

I understand the seperation between faith and it's practiced form.

For some bizzare reason you seem to think that faith leads directly to corruption, wars, and generally bad stuff...Now I know you're a dipashit.

I have never said there is a 'direct' connection, again I ask you to cut and paste an example of me saying this, again you will choose to ignore this.

It is MEN...PEOPLE....BAD PEOPLE that are the source of your "issues" with religion. You seem incapable of recognizing this though. Men started and fought every war you listed...every f*****g one of them. If you want to sit there actually believe that somehow God mandated them, well you're just a little south of sane.

I do not believe in god so obviously I do not think god mandated any of the acts of carnal horror wrought on our race in his name.

It is true, man initiated all wars, religious or non-religious, not god.

It is also true that all the good things religion has brought were also initaited by man. not god.

That is because there is no omnipotent being soley concerned with torturing, punishing and rewarding his creations.

The stories and rationals behind them are nothing but history now. You and I have no REAL way of knowing precisely what mindset drove which individuals to make war.

There are many wars that are religious but not so historicaly lost that we do not know their origins.

If a man writes a story that says "God told me to make war"...does that mean it MUST have happened that way? I think not. Again...seperate the man from the Faith. The sadistic Jihadist mentality comes to mind here...Who in they're right mind would accept what they practice as anything but a corrupt, blood thirsty, bastardizing of a true faith? A simple and blatant power grab using fear as it's impetus. There is a parrallel here you would do well to look at.

The huge majority (and I mean H-U-G-E) majority of believers (Muslims, Christians, Jews, whatever) are exactly OPPOSITE of what you're suggesting. A teeny tiny fraction of people who profess "faith" are actually corrupt bastards who cause much trouble "in that name of God"...It's a sham to think otherwise, and if you can't see through that to the core of what faith is really supposed to be then I'm wasting my time here I suppose.

You know, I don't go to church that often. I don't pray as much as I prolly should. I cuss too much, party too much, and I should probably pay more attention to my folks who are getting on in years....

So how are you christian? are you just christian in name? is this just to book your place in the clouds, why are you christian?

I wonder, does this make me an example of all that is wrong with religion, or a mere mortal who believes that there must be something bigger than himself out there but is not sure what it is?

Allow reasonable people to have faith without casting aspersions upon them or their beliefs for doing so...

I will continue to question the world around me.

I would suggest that had you not attempted to invalidate these beliefs I would have never jumped down your throat...I would have cast no aspersions upon you...capice?

LOL..You dont have to explain yourself to me, go see your confessor.

Oh well, I'm sure this all going in one ear and out the other. I'm outta here...

Good luck with everything.

 

[Hotlegs]

Oh n btw..I am tyran

 

[The Gardener]

Let's put this conversation into some perspective that the athiests can understand...

Do any of you have role models? People whose lives you admire so much that you try to incorporate some of their character into your own?

Christianity is kind of like that. You think that Michael Jordan is a role model, or has a following... or David Beckham, or Ghandi, or Marx??

Well, Christianity is based around Jesus as a role model. And, given that Jesus started in the sporting equivalent of a minor league backwater and was killed before his prime, the fact that this man inspires billions of people 2000 years after he died should show you, in terms you understand, how important this person was. He makes Michael Jordan and David Beckham look like chumps, minor league chumps. Jesus is the most admired man on this planet, and has held this record for a thousand years. The book detailing his life, the Bible, is the world's bestseller.

His life was about rediscovering the love and peace in humanity, and is an eternal source of inspiration. People attack Christianity by the handful of despots who have made war or killed in his name. These people are NOT representative of the immensely VAST masses of Christians on the whole who do amazing things to make this place a much better place to live, and live more rewarding and more wholesome lives as a result.

Personally, I don't think this is a Christian quality alone, I think there are similar truths in all world religions and personally I respect someone of faith, albeit a different faith than my own, than someone who has no faith. Without faith, cynicism and hopelessness rules.

 

[goingoinbutnotgone]

"Quote"
Jesus started in the sporting equivalent of a minor league backwater and was killed before his prime, the fact that this man inspires billions of people 2000 years after he died should show you, in terms you understand, how important this person was. He makes Michael Jordan and David Beckham look like chumps, minor league chumps. Jesus is the most admired man on this planet, and has held this record for a thousand years.

The thing that interests me is that He did all this in 3 short years.
Just after He died, His followers just tossed up their hands and went back to work. But after a little while, something happened. Then they went around everwhere telling them that he was alive.
Now they could have lied or conspired the story to start a religion. If they did, I find it highly unlikely that they would have been willing to be killed for it. But they were all persecuted and some of them were killed.
Not just the twelve, but hundreds.

 

[daedalus]

Daedalus, I have read Krishnamurti, and found truth in it.

Are you sure we're talking about the same philosopher? One of his core ideas is that "truth is a pathless land." This is why he was against organized religions, as they attempt to organize something which is limitless, fluid, and alive. Once you do that, it becomes conditioned by the biases of the people trying to organize it. It is no longer truth.

Do any of you have role models? People whose lives you admire so much that you try to incorporate some of their character into your own?

Absolutely not. I do not believe the purpose of a role model is to incorporate someone's character into my own. I might admire someone for their ability in sports, science, or something else tangible. But I do not try to emulate peoples' so called spirituality. Who made them an authority?

Without faith, cynicism and hopelessness rules.

I disagree with you. Why do we need faith in a religion to live a life of love and kindness?

Is our world today so perfect with faith? Look at what is going on right now. We are facing some of the most difficult times ever. The world is in chaos, largely due to divisions between man such as religion and nationality.

 

[Hotlegs]

Do any of you have role models? People whose lives you admire so much that you try to incorporate some of their character into your own?

No, I can't realy answer that in any more depth (to be honest I have never given my lack of a role model any deep thought), I would love to answer with something like "I try to concentrate on improving my personality" but this would be a load of bullshit.

Christianity is kind of like that. You think that Michael Jordan is a role model, or has a following... or David Beckham, or Ghandi, or Marx??

Well, Christianity is based around Jesus as a role model. And, given that Jesus started in the sporting equivalent of a minor league backwater and was killed before his prime, the fact that this man inspires billions of people 2000 years after he died should show you, in terms you understand, how important this person was.

The end result after many iterations rarely reflects the initial seed that produced the result. The figure of Jesus has been around for some 2000 years he has plenty of time to become the most popular religious figure, if he had not we would be having this conversation about some other religious figure.

Christianity has held sway over almost a third of the human race for the last few decades is certainly the most popular religion although it is believed that sometime during the mid 21st Century Isalm will become the worlds domanat religion (with Hinduism in third place).

Popularity is transient.

David Beckham inpires millions of kids around the world, does this make him 'important'? possibly in some ways, but you would be hard pressed to find anyone willing to commit to David Beckham being a better footballer than Péle or Maradonna or numerous other players many still active. He is a fine player, he is a inspiration to many, he is popular, but is he important?

Popularity does not make a figure important.

Adolf Hitler is one of the many monsters that have risen out of popularity, he certainly was popular.

Popularity does not carry moral weight.

His life was about rediscovering the love and peace in humanity, and is an eternal source of inspiration. People attack Christianity by the handful of despots who have made war or killed in his name. These people are NOT representative of the immensely VAST masses of Christians on the whole who do amazing things to make this place a much better place to live, and live more rewarding and more wholesome lives as a result.

This is the very crux of my point, I believe all religion can be traced back to personal advantage, people do not choose a religious path to suffer, they choose a religious path for benefit.

What is a wholesome life?

Personally, I don't think this is a Christian quality alone, I think there are similar truths in all world religions and personally I respect someone of faith, albeit a different faith than my own, than someone who has no faith. Without faith, cynicism and hopelessness rules.

This is an overly simple view.

Both my girlfriend and myself sponser 2 children in India (Tibetan refuges), we choose not to drive cars as we both feel it is wrong to pollute to the air for both ourselves and future generations, we cycle everywhere, if the distances are large we will take public transport, we are both vegetarian as we find the conditions animals are farmed under horrendous and brutal (sh*t I just realised I am sounding like the worst kind of Hippy!! ). The only time either of us drives is when my girlfriend drives a van for 'Crisis' on Tuesdays, Thursdays and Sundays, whilst I do 'sorting' and 'storage' (Crisis is an organisation that collects unsold food from large supermarket chains for ditribution to the homeless) We both spend christmas day (and occasionally boxing day) helping out at the 'Crisis christmas', we also try and respond to the various ongoing causes that we feel are right to support as I am sure many here do, we are no way the king and queen of charity and benevolence, but we are certainly not cynical nor drowning in a sea of hopelessness.

While we may be sorting hundreds of slightly out of date egg and tomato sandwichs for the homeless into 'expirey dates' on a sunday, some will be on there knees praying to a god for their place in heaven.

Who do you find cynical, well that would be me?

Who will burn forever in hell, well that would be me?

I suggest to those who are still saddled with the childs mind that is religious belief that they are welcome to go and play with their monster on a sunday as long as you do not stop the rest of us in our search for the truth.

 

[Scuffernoose]

oh is this going to be fun.

first of all, lets first realize that organized religion is simply a group of people who believe the same thing. and what people believe or interpret is sometimes going to be different. but religion is not what god expects. FAITH is what god expects. belief in him and what he says being true. organized religion is simply grouping people on what they believe is the truth. but unfortunately there is only one truth. so to believe that all religions are correct, is wrong. there is only ONE god, and only ONE true word of god. and its not about associating yourself with a religion that you believe is correct. its about finding the truth and believing in his word, then getting to know god through his word.

now how do you know what his word is, or if it is correct, or which one is right?? well, you have to believe that although men wrote the book, if god does exist, and he wants people to hear him and know him, then you have to believe that an all powerfull god could certainly use man to write his word. not as they see it, but as it is. and correctly. you have to believe that like a pen, man was simply the instrament inspired by god, and that he would make sure by devine power that this word could survive generations and be translated accurately. do you really believe an all powerfull god would not be able to get his word to survive and be correctly translated for all to hear?? there is ONE bible that all others are either are translated from, or modified to create another religion.

now this brings us to what the correct religion is, and what the correct book is. this is a touchy subject, but just like many, i used to believe that although i belonged to a specific religion, all of them were pretty much on the right track. this is where i was wrong because i was fooled just as many are.

if you believe in god, then you have to believe in satan. and according to the bible, satan has reign over this world for now. and his job is to take as many people to hell as possible. now if most of the world is religious in one form or another, then what would be the best most sneakiest way to do it?? in my opinion, it would be to influence people and create many different alterations of the ONE TRUTH, because god is a jealous god, and he wants his word UNALTERED because he gave it to us perfectly and exactly the way he wanted it. according to gods word, it is important to believe in him and what he says is perfect and true to get to heaven. but if you believe in a religion that has altered his word in any way, or takes focus off him, you are in danger of breaking that rule. there is ONE word of god, and to believe anything that has been altered or different is not believing in god. it is false belief. besides all the things that are out there, like PRIDE, and things that influence you to take your sight off god (like hair), there also is religion, that leads you down the wrong path. all works of satan to keep you from entering god kingdom. god says he is a jealous god and commands you to worship only him. if your worship of him comes from a religion that has altered his word the way he gave it, and what he tells us about him, then you are not worshipping the correct god, you are worshipping mans idea of god. that is a false idol.

god knows man is not perfect and he is going to disobey. that is why he sent the savior. that goes for us, as well as killers, rapists, and even people who use fear of god to manipulate and control people like religious figures. even the best religious figures are going to disobey because they have a sinful nature. but there are religious figures that use god to lead people down the wrong path. these are not men controlled by god, but rather by the slickest lier in existance, satan. when a guy like jerry fallwell? or jim baker use god for their own personal gain, and dont represent god the way god tells you to, dont be thrown off into believing this is what god wants. this is satan at his best. unlike some religious figures who condemn people, god loves all his creatures, but condemns sin only. if you sin, god is comdemning that sin, and not the person. sin is sin in his eyes. there is no level of sin. that means that rape and lying are just as evil in gods eyes even though they are punshed differently by man. god is perfect and without sin, and it doesnt change in his eyes. even a good and caring person is in just as much danger of entering hell as a murderer if both have not asked for forgiveness and given their lives to god for their sins.

but is it enough just to believe?? well, to those of you who have a girlfriend, is it enough for you to just SAY you love them?? if you truely do love them, it will show. if you truely believe in something, and love it TRUELY, then you cant help but to want to live a way that shows. that doesnt mean you arent going to make mistakes, it just means that you are going to try your hardest to correct them. you are still a human with a sinfull and selfish nature and god knows this and forgives you if you ask him because he loves you. satan will try to distract you with everything he can, because god has given him reign. and hairloss and self worth are ways that satan uses to take your focus off god. that is why god doesnt "save" you from your hairloss. this place is not a believers home, and when looking at it from the standpoint of eternity, this is just a blink of an eye that we have to go through, and with satan in power, he will try everything he can. but a believer must stand strong and know that when you are hurting god hurts for you, but allows you to go through things to bring you closer to him and whats REALLY important. its not the physical things. we are on this earth for ONE real reason. its not to have fun, but to serve god. life is only our test, and through god, life can be fun.

i look all around me, and i cant possibly believe that things could exist the way they do, and the miracles of life are possible without a higher power in existance. but to believe that there is an all-powerfull, you have to believe that it is the truth that there is ONE correct word of god, and that what he says is true. if you are a believer, then this is the closest to hell you will ever come. if you arent, then this is as close to heaven you will ever come. if there is no god, then you are in luck, that all you have to do is wait for death, and this life of depression and sin will be over. but if you are wrong, and there is a god, then you are in big eternal trouble, and there is no second chance, because god has made sure EVERYONE has the opportunity to find the truth in their lifetime. possibly this post right here. what they do from there is their decision. there is truth out there, and the best way is to find out for youself and make sure you have the ONE right one.

 

[drinkrum]

Scuffernoose, would you mind sending me the Cliff Notes version of that last post? 8)

D.

 

[Guest]

WTF was that?

 

[Hotlegs]

scuffernose would this 'correct' religion, this true 'word of god' be the one your parents follow ?

And all the Muslims and Jews they, I take it, have been hoodwinked by satan ?

People like you really sadden me.