Remember When Dutasteride Was Considered ~the Solution~ To Hair Loss?

[dralex]

DHT's effect against estrogen has nothing to do with preventing testosterone from being converted to estrogen.

It's effect is through antagonizing the estrogen receptor. By removing DHT, estrogen can have full effect, and even the 'normal' range that males typically have would be enough to grow breasts, without DHT!

See: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6542571

Do you have a better study than that? That study is straight garbage, and shows possible correlation on mice. Also its old as dirt. I have heard this before, just wondering if there is an updated, reliable study on it.

 

[infinitepain]

Using the T-word is incredibly offensive. It is the social equivalent of using the N-word or other racial slurs.

Using the B-word (baldie) is incredibly offensive too but for some reason socially accepted. Same goes for jokes about guys with small penises, guys that premature ejaculate, guys that can't get hard.

It's a doggy dog world.

 

[infinitepain]

The irony is there's probably plenty of F to M transgenders that take finasteride and dutasteride

Also why do you think dht is the most potent male hormone. Most androgenic doesn't mean the most important, most people take finasteride with no ill effects

I have an athletic-skinny built naturally with low bodyfat and im sure the high DHT has something to do with that. It's all about receptors + hormone levels. One may have high DHT but pathetic receptors and don't use it at it's full power.

Common sense says removing 70% of a male trait in a male = stupid.

 

[Zoro]

I have an athletic-skinny built naturally with low bodyfat and im sure the high DHT has something to do with that. It's all about receptors + hormone levels. One may have high DHT but pathetic receptors and don't use it at it's full power.

Common sense says removing 70% of a male trait in a male = stupid.

How are you so sure? I'm naturally "skinnyfat" and have been able to easily lose bodyfat and make progress at the gym while being on finasteride. Maybe if you're sensitive to estrogen or something I could see where you're coming from, but I've had zero sides or negative effects on physique from finasteride myself.

 

[Sanchez1234]

Tried finasteride en ru and it did absolutely nothing (just same amount of hairloss)

Now on dutasteride for couple of months and it does nothing as well...

Whats the next option? So frustrating that it does not even slow anything down.

 

[dralex]

I have an athletic-skinny built naturally with low bodyfat and im sure the high DHT has something to do with that. It's all about receptors + hormone levels. One may have high DHT but pathetic receptors and don't use it at it's full power.

Common sense says removing 70% of a male trait in a male = stupid.

Testosterone is responsible for muscular development, not DHT. Your "athletic-skinny build" has nothing to do with your "high" DHT.

 

[rclark]

Using the T-word is incredibly offensive. It is the social equivalent of using the N-word or other racial slurs.

It's bullshit, you're right.

Anybody uses that language to you here, tell me.

I've got your back! Some people are just trash, unfortunately!

Don't let their bullshit ruin your enjoyment of life. You're a good person!

 

[TheGrayMan2001]

You would grow breasts with no DHT (because your testosterone would convert to estrogen and DHT is the only thing opposing it) in your body. For some people this starts to happen even on 1 mg of finasteride (it did to me).

That isn't true.

It only matters how much T you convert to estrogen. Some guys do not convert as much as others. It also matters how sensitive your nipples\glands are to increased estrogen.

It is entirely possible to have no DHT and your estrogen is in range and no gyno. Most finasteride\Dutasteride users are near that anyway.

 

[infinitepain]

Testosterone is responsible for muscular development, not DHT. Your "athletic-skinny build" has nothing to do with your "high" DHT.

Common sense says otherwise. DHT = most potent male androgen.
Get rid of 70% and watch estrogen and other femenine crap destroy your body.

 

[SpaceInvader]

We should have a sensitivity rating system, in addition to testing hormone levels. That way we would know if it's because you either have high amounts of androgens or high androgen sensitivity.

Depending the results, will give you an idea of what approach to take, dosage and all that.

 

[hanginginthewire]

Bump. Can we have some more dutasteride talk? Do people here use it? It SHOULD completely halt loss, right? If its theorized that non responders to propecia and dutasteride are continuing to experience loss because of testerone itself, and not DHT, what can those people do?

 

[GiveMeAccessToMyAccount]

Dutasteride 0.5mg daily gave me regrowth in the first 3 months, a lot of it, nothing like finasteride, and it was noticeable I was so happy and thought to myself wow, this was the answer all along, this stuff really does work like i've seen people talk about. But then the same regrown hair just shed right out I don't know why, and so I stopped dutasteride after 6 months. Maybe it was just a shed and it meant I was going to get more regrowth but I was too scared and got back on finasteride, which I get no sheds or regrowth from, just stops hair loss. I'd like to try dutasteride again but maybe higher dose.

 

[JohnOKelly]

I recently added Dutas .5 twice weekly on top of my finasteride 1.25mg daily to see if that makes any difference. Been on finasteride over 10 years but have gone slightly below baseline now so added Dutas twice a week to see if that halts further loss or if I'm extremely lucky give me back recent losses. I'm not switching to it though, because there is no guarantee it will hold hairs that finasteride is protecting. I'm just basing that on other peoples experiences, not any sort of study.

 

[arnoldd]

I recently added Dutas .5 twice weekly on top of my finasteride 1.25mg daily to see if that makes any difference. Been on finasteride over 10 years but have gone slightly below baseline now so added Dutas twice a week to see if that halts further loss or if I'm extremely lucky give me back recent losses. I'm not switching to it though, because there is no guarantee it will hold hairs that finasteride is protecting. I'm just basing that on other peoples experiences, not any sort of study.

???

finasteride inihbit 65/70 % serum dht and 33% scalp dht
dutasteride 93%serum dht and 55% scalp dht

 

[JohnOKelly]

???

finasteride inihbit 65/70 % serum dht and 33% scalp dht
dutasteride 93%serum dht and 55% scalp dht

My point is I've read stories where people have lost ground because they made a switch and for whatever reason, which could not be explained, they did not respond in the same way to the Dutas as they did finasteride. So for now, I won't be switching over fully to Dutas.

 

[bridgeburn]

Bump. Can we have some more dutasteride talk? Do people here use it? It SHOULD completely halt loss, right? If its theorized that non responders to propecia and dutasteride are continuing to experience loss because of testerone itself, and not DHT, what can those people do?

Here's how I understand it. I think like this, Androgens are necessary to develop facial hair, I couldn't grow a beard before puberty. But old men who have decreasing Testosterone don't lose their ability to grow facial hair. So, I'm thinking androgens don't directly cause the facial hair to grow, but activates the genes for them to grow, and those genes stay on even if levels fall. Just like walking into a room, turning on a light switch and then leaving the room.
So, I imagine that in the same way, just removing DHT won't reverse hairloss even if it caused it. that can slow down/ halt it but not necessarily regrowth.

Now, Estrogens are thought of like the opposites to androgens, changing gene expression in an opposite way for your hair and could actually be necessary to walk into the room and turn off the light switch that Male hormones left on. Regrowth does happen for some on dutasteride, and it makes sense as inhibiting 5 alpha reductase, decreasing Dht and increasing Test will increase Estrogen some too.
And your results and side effects with that depends on these things: Your sensitivity, and the amount of Aromatase you have.

Other than converting to estrogen, Testosterone is not good for hair and it does have affinity to adrogen receptors. However, DHT is much stronger. And stays on the receptors longer than T. T is bad for hair but DHT is worse. Decreasing DHT is a step in the right direction but for some may not be enough if they are extremely sensitive to adrogens because Testosterone is still there.
DHT is a basically a stronger version of Testosterone but has 2 key differences. 1. it doesn't get converted into estrogen 2. Testosterone is better for muscles because muscles contain the enzyme 3a-hsd which converts DHT into something else.

 

[Medina]

Here's how I understand it. I think like this, Androgens are necessary to develop facial hair, I couldn't grow a beard before puberty. But old men who have decreasing Testosterone don't lose their ability to grow facial hair. So, I'm thinking androgens don't directly cause the facial hair to grow, but activates the genes for them to grow, and those genes stay on even if levels fall. Just like walking into a room, turning on a light switch and then leaving the room.
So, I imagine that in the same way, just removing DHT won't reverse hairloss even if it caused it. that can slow down/ halt it but not necessarily regrowth.

Now, Estrogens are thought of like the opposites to androgens, changing gene expression in an opposite way for your hair and could actually be necessary to walk into the room and turn off the light switch that Male hormones left on. Regrowth does happen for some on dutasteride, and it makes sense as inhibiting 5 alpha reductase, decreasing Dht and increasing Test will increase Estrogen some too.
And your results and side effects with that depends on these things: Your sensitivity, and the amount of Aromatase you have.

Other than converting to estrogen, Testosterone is not good for hair and it does have affinity to adrogen receptors. However, DHT is much stronger. And stays on the receptors longer than T. T is bad for hair but DHT is worse. Decreasing DHT is a step in the right direction but for some may not be enough if they are extremely sensitive to adrogens because Testosterone is still there.
DHT is a basically a stronger version of Testosterone but has 2 key differences. 1. it doesn't get converted into estrogen 2. Testosterone is better for muscles because muscles contain the enzyme 3a-hsd which converts DHT into something else.

Great observation bridge. But I wonder to myself... how the pattern? Not just head hair but also beard hair. I remember being 15 and getting facial hair first on my chin, then side burns, then moustache, and they all slowly joined up together. Just like hairloss..... but in total reverse.

It makes you wonder what exactly is going on for everything to work in such perfect symmetry. If DHT was just loose and being picked up by receptors randomly, there would be no pattern, it would be chaos. The receptors must change, one at a time, and very slowly.

Once one follicle is down (or up in the case of facial hair) another seems to follow. Usually right next to it.

 

[bridgeburn]

Great observation bridge. But I wonder to myself... how the pattern? Not just head hair but also beard hair. I remember being 15 and getting facial hair first on my chin, then side burns, then moustache, and they all slowly joined up together. Just like hairloss..... but in total reverse.

It makes you wonder what exactly is going on for everything to work in such perfect symmetry. If DHT was just loose and being picked up by receptors randomly, there would be no pattern, it would be chaos. The receptors must change, one at a time, and very slowly.

Once one follicle is down (or up in the case of facial hair) another seems to follow. Usually right next to it.

I wonder too, I'm not sure anyone really knows why the damn pattern, humans evolved with sensitivity in certain places more than others it seems. Sometimes I've looked at recently born babies and noticed that the hair at the temples seems to always appear last. Maybe our genetic code whenever we our developing in the womb causes some to be born with more receptors in some areas or a different kind of receptors. Not everyone gets the typical pattern though, some just evenly diffuse or even start balding from the crown.

Someone on this site wrote somewhere that it's like walking into a Forest and the trees are covered in different types of flammable stuff and in different amounts and DHT is the match left lit on the table. Say the trees in the front are covered in gasoline, and the tress behind those trees are covered in something else that's flammable but doesn't catch on fire as quickly as gasoline, but when the gasoline trees burn it eventually catches the other trees behind on fire and then the fire gets bigger and spreads.

I wonder too like with facial hair too, if after certain number of times the receptor gets hit, then it gets activated to grow

 

[Medina]

I wonder too, I'm not sre anyone really knows why the damn pattern, humans evolved with sensitivity in certain places more than others it seems. Sometimes I've looked at recently born babies and noticed that the hair at the temples seems to always appear last. Maybe our genetic code whenever we our developing in the womb causes some to be born with more receptors in some areas or a different kind of receptors. Not everyone gets the typical pattern though, some just evenly diffuse or even start balding from the crown.

Someone on this site wrote somewhere that it's like walking into a Forest and the trees are covered in different types of flammable stuff and in different amounts and DHT is the match left lit on the table. Say the trees in the front are covered in gasoline, and the tress behind those trees are covered in something else that's flammable but doesn't catch on fire as quickly as gasoline, but when the gasoline trees burn it eventually catches the other trees behind on fire and then the fire gets bigger and spreads.

I wonder too like with facial hair too, if after certain number of times the receptor gets hit, then it gets activated to grow

I know that in my case the receptors reacting to DHT is not random, I am receding NW3 in a perfect symmetrical pattern, each hair does not miniaturize until the one infront has already started the process

I wonder can the fire be stopped by treating this area hard? Or will the hair behind it continue to recede as normal. If it does continue to recede then a timing mechanism must be involved, I think @InBeforeTheCure has talked about this.

The pattern, timing, and "joining up" of facial hair is fascinating though. It's the same process but in reverse.

We know that androgens are the fire for this, but I don't think we understand the gasoline (the when, how and why it becomes flammable)

In such pretty patterns too

 

[bridgeburn]

I know that in my case the receptors reacting to DHT is not random, I am receding NW3 in a perfect symmetrical pattern, each hair does not miniaturize until the one infront has already started the process

I wonder can the fire be stopped by treating this area hard? Or will the hair behind it continue to recede as normal. If it does continue to recede then a timing mechanism must be involved, I think @InBeforeTheCure has talked about this.

The pattern, timing, and "joining up" of facial hair is fascinating though. It's the same process but in reverse.

We know that androgens are the fire for this, but I don't think we understand the gasoline (the when, how and why it becomes flammable)

In such pretty patterns too

The patterns are not pretty!! hahhaahhaha f*** these patterns, the only pattern i want is NW0!
I dont know, what exactly is the physical difference that makes us more sensitive??? I've wondered that a long time.
I wish I knew. I also recceded in NW3 pattern but hair behind that was slowly diffusing all over the top before i even realized it, so i think its possible that either all of our hair in the NW7 pattern is getting affected at the same time and we dont even know it because the sensitive parts go away first or if the follicles are in communication with another and when one goes it sends negatives signals around it??

treating that sensitive area would be priority cause temples are usually the hardest b**ch to get back! some of the topicals stuff going systematic would help the rest.