Robotsex's Story - (9.5 Years of Hair Loss Feedback Please!)

[robotsex]

MY FLICKR PAGE w/ most recent hair photos:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/34349373@N07/sets/72157612589534120/

History:
I’m 27 years old. I’d say I’m around a Norwood 3V with some thinning throughout. I started noticing my temples receding at around 17 years old, which puts my hair loss at around the 9.5 year mark.

When I first noticed the hair loss, I panicked and attacked it aggressively with a myriad of solutions: Propecia, minoxidil 5%, 15% minoxidil at temples, taking a slew of vitamins, Tricomin, Nioxin, etc. Eventually, I dropped everything except finasteride, which I have used for 9.5 years consistently. I’ve dabbled here and there with stuff like Super Zix and 5% minoxidil liquid, but eventually dropped them because of the hassle and wasn’t sure they were doing anything for me. I never took pictures so it’s hard to say.

While finasteride may be working on some level to slow my hairloss, it has never stopped it completely or given me any kind of regrowth – even when I was first using it. For almost 10 years of hairloss, I feel pretty good about what I’ve been able to keep. No one ever notices I’m losing my hair unless I show them, but I’m entering a new era where I don’t feel I’ll able to hide it anymore. This has prompted me to take some action.

About 6 months ago I noticed my crown was a lot thinner and not easy to cover up so I started using Toppik, which works great on both my crown and my temples, but as we know this is cosmetic and is only further ignoring the issue.

Over the past 6 weeks I’ve started using Nizoral 2% 2-3/week and Rogaine 5% Foam all over crown, vertex, and hairline. I figure I should give it a shot at least.

Current Regimen:
-1.25 finasteride – Proscar / every night (Since 1999 – Now [9.5 years])
-Nizoral 2% / 2-3x a week – (Since 12/1/08)
-Rogaine 5% Foam / 2x a day AM + PM (Since 12/1/08)
-Massage Scalp prior to topicals to stimulate blood flow

Future Additional Treatments:
At this point I’m open to adding an additional anti-androgen or androgen blocker like topical spironolactone, Revivogen, or Proxiphen as I feel I need to get try and stop further loss as much as possible. I’d be fine keeping the hair I have left to be honest. I have considered Dutasteride, but am fearful I will shed massively and undergo serious side effects. Not sure if it’s worth it now, but maybe give it a show in a year if things are looking bad.

Anything anyone else would suggest given the current state of my loss? Supplements, Shampoos, Tricomin, etc.?

Current Plan:
For now, I’m committed to seeing what Rogaine Foam and Nizoral used consistently for six months will do for me. At that point, I will either add more to the regimen or remove some stuff that I feel isn’t helping.

Hair Transplant:
I am considering getting an hair transplant in 2 years or so if I don’t seem to be winning the battle by then. Does my hair loss pattern seem consistent with performing a successful hair transplant? I know young men are discouraged from doing this, but I’d imagine by then if things don’t get better I’ll be a NW4 by then and around 30 anyway.

Outro
In closing, when I was young I thought losing my hair would end my life. I’ve been surprised how much I’ve been able to hold onto and now that I’m a bit older I realize it isn’t the end of the world. There are a lot of amazing blessings in my life that I choose to focus on rather than just the hair on my head. I mean, if Jason Statham can do action flicks bald – the world must really be opening up!

 

[iwantperfection]

Re: My Story - 9.5 Years of Hair Loss - Feedback Please!

your hair is very similar to a user here called defenton when he started. type his name in the search engine and check out his story.

 

[Fundi]

Re: My Story - 9.5 Years of Hair Loss - Feedback Please!

Hair's not too bad. - Especially if you started 10 years ago.

 

[thenational]

Re: My Story - 9.5 Years of Hair Loss - Feedback Please!

Yeah its really not that bad for 10 years loss. You still have reasonable thickness. I'd say the finasteride has probably helped in some minor way, if it may only be slowing it.

I'd say there's not much else you can do, lotta people also give mention to Xandrox on here.

 

[robotsex]

With my type of hair loss (as demonstrated in my photos), what are some other viable next go to steps in my regimen?

Fluridil, spironolactone, tricomin, retin-a, revivogen?

I just have a feeling I will need something more aggressive as an androgen blocker since finasteride doesn't stop my hairloss all together.

What would you guys do if you were me?

Also, would you stay on my current regimen for 6 months and see what happens or add another element(s) to it now?

THanks!

 

[DoctorHouse]

I think you are doing all you can. I tried everything except fluridil and avodart( dutas) to be honest nothing really is that spectacular. The only thing you have not tried is Proxiphen or Prox-N along with Nano shampoo that might help some if you are really open to try something else. However, to be honest with you, I am now convinced that the big 3( if you can tolerate them) is all you can do before a hair transplant. If those 3 fail and you still want improvement, then consider a hair transplant or just accept your fate. I am done trying to find the holy grail product. I have wasted so much money on useless products. I also feel I made a huge mistake stopping minoxidil TWICE per day. I think I may have slowed down things even more if I would have just stuck with it. I am back on the foam twice a day in hopes of maybe getting some growth back. I always loved the foam as far as its not too messy, the smell does not bother me, and it kind of thickens the hair somewhat instantly in a cosmetic way. I always believed that it made my hair worse but after stopping it for a year, I realized it may have been doing some good even if it were very minimal versus how much loss I have experienced in the last year without it.

 

[robotsex]

Hey House!

Thanks for your feedback. I have always too been in your boat. I feel like all of the other products and concoctions were not effective enough to warrant the hastle of using them daily with the exception of the big 3 and to be honest, until now, I was unwilling to use minoxidil because it's a major annoyance cosmetically. That is, until I gave Foam a try, which I think its great, if not too potent. 'm still trying to get my dosing down, as I think 2 times a day to the affected areas on my scalp may be causing bloating. At first I thought it was cuz I was applying to a wet scalp 2x a day...now I just do dry, but I'm going to continue 2x a day for a week and be positive it is causing bloating. If that is the case, I could either drop to 1x a day whole head or just minimize the coverage area so I use less product on my scalp. Right now I use about 1/2 - 3/4 of a cap on my head per application.

I guess the next option is Avodart. Seems like no one has good results with it though to warrant that kind of risk. I guess I'll just keep on doing what I've been doing and provide updates at the 90 day and 6 month marks.

On another forum in response to hair transplant questions...I was told this by a guy woh is apparently a transplant doctor:

Family history is HUGE for trying to predict the feasibility of hair transplants and future loss.

It's not a paint-by-numbers thing, but it works better than anything else we've got. This condition is primarily a genetic problem more than any other factor.

The degree of baldness you've got at this age is really not the only telling factor about your condition. The size of the overall thinning pattern is just as relevant. This is what you'll have to accomodate when you plan hair transplants.

You'll hate to hear this -

But honestly the safest thing you could do is to get a bunch of hair transplant grafts stuck right back into where you've still got hair right now.

I say this because it sounds like you've currently got hair in exactly the kind of pattern that a conservative hair transplant aims to mimic. Decent top & forelock, receded temples, and a thinning crown. Whereas if you get aggressive, the slightest reduction in efficacy of the meds will put you in trouble.

Showing temples at 17, and showing a thinned crown at 27, even while on Finasteride for the whole decade in between? I'm afraid that sound like a pretty heavy baldness gene you're dealing with. That's why I'm sounding so conservative.

Any feedback on that?

 

[DoctorHouse]

I am using the foam very sparingly. I am just putting it on areas that need it and I am using less than 1/2 a cap full for each application. I thought maybe the minoxidil might cause bloating but I think it may just make you more sensitive to salt so you retain more water. Try to drink lots of water, eat foods with LOW sodium, and exercise so you sweat. That should help keep the bloating under control. Its helping for me. As far as a hair transplant, as long as you are a good candidate and go to a very ethical conservative doctor like Feller who will help with your future hair loss, I would definitely get a hair transplant. However, make sure you know the pros and cons if you do have one. If the cons outweigh the pros, then I would wait. I went for a consultation, and he said to wait until it gets alot worse. I thought maybe getting small work now would make things less obvious later but its too risky for shock loss. I am not going to take the chance of making things worse when I can live with what I have now. When you think you can no longer accept your situation, then it would be most appropriate to consider one. Try to style your hair the best you can to camouflage your problem as long as you can. That is what I have done. My new hairstyle looks very trendy so I don't mind the new look but I must admit, I still prefer my old way but I know I can live with the new way. Everyone says both styles look fine and so far I have not heard " I see you've changed your hair or what have you done to your hair?" Which in some way may imply some the person is not too crazy about it. Luckily, nobody really cares, and I think that is even better. It helps me not care as much either.

 

[Flavio]

It looks good for 10 years of hair loss. In your case, dutasteride seems to be the next logical step. Side effects could be a problem, though.

 

[Petchsky]

Family history is HUGE for trying to predict the feasibility of hair transplants and future loss.

It's not a paint-by-numbers thing, but it works better than anything else we've got. This condition is primarily a genetic problem more than any other factor.

The degree of baldness you've got at this age is really not the only telling factor about your condition. The size of the overall thinning pattern is just as relevant. This is what you'll have to accomodate when you plan hair transplants.

You'll hate to hear this -

But honestly the safest thing you could do is to get a bunch of hair transplant grafts stuck right back into where you've still got hair right now.

I say this because it sounds like you've currently got hair in exactly the kind of pattern that a conservative hair transplant aims to mimic. Decent top & forelock, receded temples, and a thinning crown. Whereas if you get aggressive, the slightest reduction in efficacy of the meds will put you in trouble.

Showing temples at 17, and showing a thinned crown at 27, even while on Finasteride for the whole decade in between? I'm afraid that sound like a pretty heavy baldness gene you're dealing with. That's why I'm sounding so conservative.

Any feedback on that?

Looks to be a very good response to me, do you know which Doctor it was?

 

[robotsex]

I believe his name was "calvidmd". I don't know for sure if he's a doctor, but I gathered as much by his name and his advice.

 

[DoctorHouse]

I believe his name was "calvidmd". I don't know for sure if he's a doctor, but I gathered as much by his name and his advice.

I know he is not a hair transplant doctor. He may be a doctor but I honestly do not think he is one. He is just another forum member giving his 2 cents.

 

[robotsex]

If I'm getting some bloating from the minoxidil foam, would you say it's better, given my hairloss pattern, to apply small amounts to my visible thinning zones (crown and temples/hairline) 2x a day, or is it better to apply 1x a day to the entire head? The reason I ask is that my whole head is thinned somewhat. I'd like to get maximum protection for all of my top hair rather than just cosmetically treating the visible parts because I feel like the neglected parts will go eventually and my hair may look strange with that contrast.

 

[DoctorHouse]

If I'm getting some bloating from the minoxidil foam, would you say it's better, given my hairloss pattern, to apply small amounts to my visible thinning zones (crown and temples/hairline) 2x a day, or is it better to apply 1x a day to the entire head? The reason I ask is that my whole head is thinned somewhat. I'd like to get maximum protection for all of my top hair rather than just cosmetically treating the visible parts because I feel like the neglected parts will go eventually and my hair may look strange with that contrast.

I would apply less than 1/2 a cap full twice a day to the thinnest areas. It will absorb into the scalp and help other areas too. Be careful some of that some of the residue of the foam on your hair does not get on your pillow. I think if your face rubs against the pillow and it has foam residue it may cause more facial bloating. Drink alot of water and exercise, it helps alot.

 

[robotsex]

Ok House, following your suggestions for the past couple of days. Takes a bit if practice to use that much and am still getting my process down. I've been drinking a lot of water, but the body and face bloating is are still present, but perhaps they have been reduced.

Hopefully, I can get this bloating issue under wraps as I really believe in the usefulness of the foam. If the bloating does persist, I suppose its not the end of the world since it's not a deal breaker and I suppose I'd be willing to endure it if I'm getting good regrowth. It looks like I gain about 5 lbs. spread throughout my stomach, love handles, etc. Nothing insane, but I'm thin normally so the extra pudge is quite noticeable. Seems like a lot of people deal with the side effects. I do yoga 3x a week, but I'd be curious how running for 20 minutes every morning would affect the bloating.

Any feedback?

 

[DoctorHouse]

Ok House, following your suggestions for the past couple of days. Takes a bit if practice to use that much and am still getting my process down. I've been drinking a lot of water, but the body and face bloating is are still present, but perhaps they have been reduced.

Hopefully, I can get this bloating issue under wraps as I really believe in the usefulness of the foam. If the bloating does persist, I suppose its not the end of the world since it's not a deal breaker and I suppose I'd be willing to endure it if I'm getting good regrowth. It looks like I gain about 5 lbs. spread throughout my stomach, love handles, etc. Nothing insane, but I'm thin normally so the extra pudge is quite noticeable. Seems like a lot of people deal with the side effects. I do yoga 3x a week, but I'd be curious how running for 20 minutes every morning would affect the bloating.

Any feedback?

It may take longer than a few days to see the results. You need to sweat alot too. I do at least 20 minutes of high intense cardio at least 3 times a week on an empty stomach. That helps too. Watch the sodium content in your foods. Read labels and try to reduce you salt intake as much as possible. Also lower carbs help too. I still have some bloating too but not enough to stop using it. I did notice I still had some minor bloating even when I was NOT using the foam. Its funny how you thought the same thing as I did today before I read your post. I was thinking, I will put up with the mild bloating for the next 6 months if I see some improvement. Actually, I am seeing alot of new hairs growing in now so I am hopeful for improvement. I definitely feel you do have to use it TWICE per day. My progress started going downhill once I lowered my dose to once daily and then to not using the foam at all for over 6 or 7 months. I truely believe TWICE per day will make you a much better responder than just once day. I think thats why Dr Klein's patient do well on his products as he advices using them 4 times per day. I think no less than twice a day is enough. I have a scale at home that is expensive that tells you how much water weight you have so I can tell if I am retaining water. I am going to start recording my measurements and see what I eat and how much I drink to since how much the minoxidil is affecting me.

 

[robotsex]

Do you only get it in your face or do you get it in your body as well?

Additionally, I've been more conscious about facial lines and aging since I started on minoxidil. Hard to say if it's causing any reduction in collagen in my face that could expedite the aging process. I did notice today that there is a new line formed under my right eye, but looks like it's because of some of the bloating under my right eye area. I'll keep an eye on it to see if it goes away.

One thing I did realize is, I always massage my scalp prior to applying minoxidil to aid in bloodflow. Perhaps this is ill advised since it seems like I'm getting too much minoxidil in my system in the first place. What's funny is I never got swelling when I used to use the liquid, but this could be attributed to the fact that I was inconsistent with applying it 2x a day (mostly 1x). In fact, I didn't notice bloating with Foam until 5 weeks in when I decided I'd use it 2x a day for sure. Applying sporadically 1x here or 2x there didn't seem to give me this problem.

Do people who experience bloating always get the collagen reduction and increased signs of aging side effects? that's actually something I wouldn't be okay living with. Whats the use in saving your hair to age 10 years in 1 year?

 

[DoctorHouse]

I guess the bloating is all over. I have never heard of minoxidil affecting your collagen production. Have you read studies that say minoxidil ages you and reduces collagen production? I don't really think that seems possible.

 

[robotsex]

I haven't seen studies. I'll do some more research. I've heard anecdotal information via forums about how this has happened or how it ages your skin and increases wrinkles etc. Could just be paranoia. I've also heard about people developing dark lines under their eyes. The tricky part is that when you're a hammer, everything is a nail. So I've been looking for this sort of thing and it may or may not actually happening. I can convince myself of anything given enough time. I did take pictures in case this became an issue, but I'll continue to monitor to see how things go.

To be honest, I looked at my face today and it looks bloated and older. Some more serious lines in the around the eye area, but they may have always been there. I was looking under a fluorescent bathroom light and you know flattering those are.

 

[icdalite]

robotsex, I've used minoxidil for a year and experienced sides 5 months after starting it.

Dark circles, bloated face, headaches. I dropped it to 1.5 ml per day but the sides did'nt go away.

I initially did not attribute the headache to minoxidil. I though only the dark circles, dry facial skin and tired look was due to minoxidil. I ran out of patience and finally quit on Nov 2008.

By december all sides disappeared, I felt great because the headaches, dark cirlces were gone and I was sleeping well and feeling refreshed in the morning. However, I experienced a huge shed in dec which has almost ceased last week. I'm considering using only 0.5 ml of minoxidil on my hairline which has taken a beating since I stopped it. I have also considered Xandrox 15 % plus which you need to apply only once.

From Nov I started on tricomin and am on finpecia since June 2008. Again you may not experience similar sides but hope this information helps if you do.