Rogaine/Tricomin application help...

[mvpsoft]

Well, in my case, in 30 years I'll be 78. I'm not sure I do need or will want to fight my hair loss for that long. So part of my point is that how you handle your regimen depends on your age and your goals. I've been losing my hair slowly for 20 or so years. No matter what I do, I'm not going to grow all or even most of it back. For example, I'm not going to recover my hairline without a transplant. So my goal is to go on an all-out regimen for a year or so, see how much I can recover, then get a hair transplant to regain my hair line. After that, my goal will be to maintain what I've got, and I'll adjust my regimen accordingly. But there is no sense transplanting more than I have to, and going all out now allows me to regrow as much as possible before surgery.

One assumption you're making is that new treatments won't come along in the next 20-30 years, that what we have now is all we'll ever have. I see no reason to make that assumption. Furthermore, we don't know that minoxidil and propecia together won't last longer than 5-7 years, let alone propecia or dutasteride, minoxidil, copper peptides, Revivogen, etc. We know that for some of them, individually their efficacy has a limited duration, but we don't know that it won't be longer if used together.

So I'm assuming that new and better treatments will be found, that together the synergism not only grows more hair faster for now, but that the effects very well may last longer than if the treatments are used separately, that there are still things that I'm not using, that new treatments are likely to be discovered, and that for me anyway part of the battle has to be surgery. You don't find those assumptions to be realistic for someone who is 48 and has been losing hair for 20 years?

There are treatments I'm not using now. I'm not using spironolactone. I'm not using fluridil. I'm not using Kevis, or other products that appear to be more than snake oil but less than FDA approved. Who know, maybe even laser treatment will prove effective once all the testing is in. So it's not like there are no alternatives, even without future discoveries.

I think neither of us can be dogmatic, we have to say that different approaches are probably best for different circumstances. For some people, a gradualistic approach is probably best. But for others, an all-out assault may be best.

 

[HairlossTalk]

Well, in my case, in 30 years I'll be 78.

HEY! You should have MENTIONED that you're 48 years old man! Lord!!!! Thats kind of important for this topic!!!! :lol: On TWO LEVELS. One ... you've probably lost a ton of hair already so of course you're going to use both, everything, all of it, etc. I totally agree! Two... you're not a 20 year old who is looking at a 30 year long hair loss fight.

One assumption you're making is that new treatments won't come along in the next 20-30 years, that what we have now is all we'll ever have. I see no reason to make that assumption.

Again, a logical assumption is one that uses the data you DO have to pick the most probable conclusion. The data I have says that not much new is coming in the foreseeable future, so you need to plan accordingly. To me that's the most wise way of thinking.

Of course I want something new to come along, but Im also aware that the real focus is turning towards cloning technology and almost nobody is looking for new topicals or pills for hair loss. Dr. Lee emailed me recently stating the same. Things are turning away from the treatment approach to the surgical approach. He isn't aware of anything new in the pipeline as far as treatments either.

Then again you've always got Dutasteride, if your balls don't shrivel up and fall off from it!

HairLossTalk.com

 

[mvpsoft]

Well, that was my point I guess, that whether a gradualist approach or an all-out assault is appropriate depends on individual circumstances. I never cared about my hair loss until recently, because it was so gradual, I guess. But I finally said enough is enough, and now I don't want to mess around. So for me, an all-out assault is reasonable, I think. It probably isn't for a 20 year old though.

So far, BTW, my balls seem to be doing just fine after about 10 weeks on dutasteride. I have a small loss of libido perhaps, but hey, I've been married for 25 years, so you know I'm not getting much anyway.

 

[thoradas]

Regrowing hair on an area that has already become 100% skin is nearly impossible. These treatments typically thicken up existing hairlines. You very well could creep forward a few centimeters after a year or two of consistent use, but if those temples have been 100% hairless for a couple years, try to focus on thickening up what you've got. Check out martin's pictures to see this exact thing in action. He didn't regain much ground on the slick areas, but he thickened up very nicely with the rest.

I went to my local Hair Club for Men out of desperation a few weeks ago, and they found that there are still a number of hairs in my temporal regions that could effectively grow with their treatment. He made use of the hair magnifier wand to illustrate his points. And I could see the fine hairs still present, and do not believe that the areas in question are to the slick point of no return. I decided against their $1,500 dollar minoxidil treatment, and have been searching for an alternative, still holding on to my Propecia prescription - trying to make myself deal with whatever side-effects become of such a treatment.

Then it sounds like I answered your question, even though I did not have the time to read the whole thread. I gave my two cents on applying it with a limited time available to you.

Yes, you did answer my question(s). I appreciate your taking the time to respond to my various ramblings. I am trying to find my best option, and am slowly realizing that the best option doesn't really exist. I should note that while I didn't think that Propecia would last forever, I at least thought it would work a bit longer. However, the seven year logic makes sense. After all, not only would it seem logical for the body to become immune to its effect, but the body's own chemistry is said to alter every seven years. So, maybe after using Propecia for the alleged seven year time frame, my body's own chemistry would change, and stop the hair loss on its own, as it should... How's that for optimism??

Thanks again for your replies. I appreciate those who take the time to thoughtfully respond, as you (and mvp) have most certainly done.

 

[HairlossTalk]

still holding on to my Propecia presription - trying to make myself deal with whatever side-effects become of such a treatment.

The longer you're on it without any SideFX the less chance there is you'll ever experience any. With Propecia they decrease with time. How long have you been on it?

slowly realizing that the best option doesn't really exist

Sure it does. Your best option is the product with the 83% success rate. Trust me on this one ... you are going to be a million times better off in 5 years than you would have been without any treatment, like most guys. I don't even want to know what I *should* look like right now. I can take a gander at pics of my dad and grandfather to get a good idea though, and I have literally kept about 2 to 3 inches of hairline that should not be there anymore. That's nothing but good news. And honestly, if you want, hell... go for it. Do the Rogaine with the Propecia. I see no reason not to if you are seeking to grow. It is a fair assumption that the two together will work to extend the 7-10 year limit Propecia has. Almost unoubtedly. This is all good news, trust me. Sure it wont thicken you back up to your high school days, but its going to do the job of keeping you a hairy headed man.

the seven year logic makes sense. After all, not only would it seem logical for the body to become immune to its effect, but the body's own chemistry is said to alter every seven years.

I should reclarify this. The chart basically went like this... Optimium results in the highest # of people was at the 2 year mark (see how many guys freak out because propecia didn't work for them at 8 months? oh well). At the 4 year mark it dipped to something like 79% maintaining or regrowing. At the 5 year mark it went to about 75%. At the 6 and 7 year mark it dipped to 71%. Those are incorrect numbers, but that is basically how I remember the trend going. My point? Even at 6 or 7 years the vast majority of people continued to see results.

HairLossTalk.com

 

[thoradas]

How long have you been on it?

Well, that's my problem. I've been holding on to the prescription since October... and I just can't seem to bite the bullet and try it out. However, I do plan to this week. Though, I've been saying that since I got it. It is just that I really hate popping pills. This would make for my first prescribed medication, other than penicillin as a child - but at least that was in liquid form and tasted pretty darn good, but I digress. I truly hope to give Propecia a try very soon, yet now I almost want to wait until after the holiday's in case I'm one of the 2% that develop the, uh, unfortunate side effects. I would hate to come out in pictures looking not so flat chested anymore and more acne ridden than I already am... I also want to take some pictures of my hair/head for reference purposes, but can't seem to get around to that either. Oh well. Thanks again for the replies. And am now thinking of just giving Propecia a chance to work solo. We'll see how it goes.