s5 cream??
- Thread starter striker9
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captain_que
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this interests me. it is now in my topics.
Hey Guys!
Does anybody know when S5 Cream will be available?I just want to add it to my regimen and b`cause I can not send a question to seller at this hairlosstalk.com web shop I am asking you about the situation. Do you have same problem as me? Lokking fwd to hearing from you soon.
Regards!
Tony
Does anybody know when S5 Cream will be available?I just want to add it to my regimen and b`cause I can not send a question to seller at this hairlosstalk.com web shop I am asking you about the situation. Do you have same problem as me? Lokking fwd to hearing from you soon.
Regards!
Tony
flamingpie
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^
id like to know an answer to this as well. Been wanting to add spironolactone to my regime for a while now, but its always sold out here.....and i'd really prefer not to go through the motions of dr lee (filling out a survey and requesting consultation.) Anywhere else to purchase it?
id like to know an answer to this as well. Been wanting to add spironolactone to my regime for a while now, but its always sold out here.....and i'd really prefer not to go through the motions of dr lee (filling out a survey and requesting consultation.) Anywhere else to purchase it?
Hi everyone. Am new here. Just started S5 cream last week. Don't find the smell bad at all. Seems to be easy to apply with my hair at the length it is and absorbs well.
I am a 47 year old diffuse thinner. First noticed thinning November 08. Have had a bad scalp itch and pretty bad inflammation. I use a microscope to monitor my scalp and can see the redness on my scalp and around the follicles. I've tried a number of things - lasers, various topicals, topical hydrocortisone, nizoral and other keto shampoos, etc. Nothing has helped the inflammation except finasteride which I can't take because of sides (slight gyno and sexual sides). finasteride made my scalp go white and knocked out all inflammation. I will not experiment with other internal meds like dutasteride because I really don't believe it's healthy for me to mess with my hormones like that.
I tried S5 as a last resort based on its supposed non systemic nature and was amazed to see after the FIRST application that my scalp went white, itch disappeared and inflammation appears greatly reduced if not eliminated. I am optimistic that if I can maintain this improved scalp health with it I can stabilize. Using the microscope I know that all of my follicles are still producing hair its just that alot of them are in varying degrees of miniaturization. Hopefully the S5 over time can help them reverse that and thicken up. I don't actually need regrowth of lost hair.
I appear to be pretty sensitive to sides from internal meds so am going to watch that closely with the S5. Think I'll go to my doctor and get some tests run now and in a month or two to monitor T levels, but so far I am very pleased with the S5 cream.
I am a 47 year old diffuse thinner. First noticed thinning November 08. Have had a bad scalp itch and pretty bad inflammation. I use a microscope to monitor my scalp and can see the redness on my scalp and around the follicles. I've tried a number of things - lasers, various topicals, topical hydrocortisone, nizoral and other keto shampoos, etc. Nothing has helped the inflammation except finasteride which I can't take because of sides (slight gyno and sexual sides). finasteride made my scalp go white and knocked out all inflammation. I will not experiment with other internal meds like dutasteride because I really don't believe it's healthy for me to mess with my hormones like that.
I tried S5 as a last resort based on its supposed non systemic nature and was amazed to see after the FIRST application that my scalp went white, itch disappeared and inflammation appears greatly reduced if not eliminated. I am optimistic that if I can maintain this improved scalp health with it I can stabilize. Using the microscope I know that all of my follicles are still producing hair its just that alot of them are in varying degrees of miniaturization. Hopefully the S5 over time can help them reverse that and thicken up. I don't actually need regrowth of lost hair.
I appear to be pretty sensitive to sides from internal meds so am going to watch that closely with the S5. Think I'll go to my doctor and get some tests run now and in a month or two to monitor T levels, but so far I am very pleased with the S5 cream.
Loolapalooza
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I will give you my opinion about topic spironolactone.
In my point of view, it doesn´t work.
Why?
Well, the background theory is correct. Yes, it is a potent antiandrogen (many transgenders use it) and protects the folicles from DHT. The problem is .. Well, it doesn´t get to work at the folicle at all - after being absorbed, is fastly metabolized, so that makes it pretty much .. USELESS.
I think there are many antiandrogens that prevent DHT action. The problem is ALWAYS the same. Ther is not enough absortion, they don´t get to work in the folicle time enough.
Curiously I sustain my theory with a big spironolactone "supporter" Dr. Lee interview:
http://www.hairlosssucks.com/newsletter ... icle08.htm
Somewhere at the end he tells the inneficiency truth about ALL topical antiandrogens (spironolactone included obviously). What he doesn´t realize is he spoke against himself, because he sells spironolactone.
Interviewer:
Why is it so hard for us to make something work *locally* in a topical formulation? Is it an issue of not enough absorption? Is it an issue of too much absorption which results in the active ingredient being "washed" away by the bloodstream?
DR LEE:
Why don't topicals work as well? It's for many reasons. One reason is that it doesn't stay in the skin long enough. Another problem is absorption (...)
Interviewer:
So the goal for researchers as far as finding topical DHT inhibitors should be a focus more so on finding one that, once absorbed, isn't metabolized so quickly?
Dr. Lee: Yes. One that doesn't get carried away by the circulatory system. I have been doing a lot of work with a Biochemist in the Bay Area using liposome's, and that works very well at keeping the active ingredients stationary in the scalp once absorbed, but the expenses involved make it prohibitive. So yes, we're still looking for the holy grail.
Interviewer: So why is it that spironolactone still works even though, as you mentioned, it gets metabolized so quickly?
(DR LEE realized now the he was caught in his own trap)
Dr. Lee: It absorbs into the skin and blocks the receptor site. Anything that gets into the bloodstream, has already been degraded.
(Crapy answer!! This was very contradictive!)
Adding to this contradictive interview, I have another group of questions:
- If it was effective as websites claim, why Dr lee is still working in an "efficient topical"?
- If it is used since the 80´s, why there aren´t sufficient studies on male pattern baldness sufferers? It isn´t that hard, a simple 2 year study on a 10 male pattern baldness group using spironolactone ALONE would be great to clear our minds.
- If it is used since the 80´s, why is not popular? We google the entire world and we find very few info.
- About the "i believe it works, but only stops MBP it doesn´t regrow" theory in this thread .. Well that seems very "strange", doesn´t it? Any medicin that stops male pattern baldness alows some regrowth in some users, because the folicles are allowed to "breathe" from DHT destroying action, so why is spironolactone different in this area?
The answer seems clear to me, spironolactone is inneficient, and scientific community have realized it. Otherwise this would be a very talked and researched product!
Anyway this is MY OPINION. It may very well be a bunch od bullsh# but at least that´s what I think.
Cheers
In my point of view, it doesn´t work.
Why?
Well, the background theory is correct. Yes, it is a potent antiandrogen (many transgenders use it) and protects the folicles from DHT. The problem is .. Well, it doesn´t get to work at the folicle at all - after being absorbed, is fastly metabolized, so that makes it pretty much .. USELESS.
I think there are many antiandrogens that prevent DHT action. The problem is ALWAYS the same. Ther is not enough absortion, they don´t get to work in the folicle time enough.
Curiously I sustain my theory with a big spironolactone "supporter" Dr. Lee interview:
http://www.hairlosssucks.com/newsletter ... icle08.htm
Somewhere at the end he tells the inneficiency truth about ALL topical antiandrogens (spironolactone included obviously). What he doesn´t realize is he spoke against himself, because he sells spironolactone.
Interviewer:
Why is it so hard for us to make something work *locally* in a topical formulation? Is it an issue of not enough absorption? Is it an issue of too much absorption which results in the active ingredient being "washed" away by the bloodstream?
DR LEE:
Why don't topicals work as well? It's for many reasons. One reason is that it doesn't stay in the skin long enough. Another problem is absorption (...)
Interviewer:
So the goal for researchers as far as finding topical DHT inhibitors should be a focus more so on finding one that, once absorbed, isn't metabolized so quickly?
Dr. Lee: Yes. One that doesn't get carried away by the circulatory system. I have been doing a lot of work with a Biochemist in the Bay Area using liposome's, and that works very well at keeping the active ingredients stationary in the scalp once absorbed, but the expenses involved make it prohibitive. So yes, we're still looking for the holy grail.
Interviewer: So why is it that spironolactone still works even though, as you mentioned, it gets metabolized so quickly?
(DR LEE realized now the he was caught in his own trap)
Dr. Lee: It absorbs into the skin and blocks the receptor site. Anything that gets into the bloodstream, has already been degraded.
(Crapy answer!! This was very contradictive!)
Adding to this contradictive interview, I have another group of questions:
- If it was effective as websites claim, why Dr lee is still working in an "efficient topical"?
- If it is used since the 80´s, why there aren´t sufficient studies on male pattern baldness sufferers? It isn´t that hard, a simple 2 year study on a 10 male pattern baldness group using spironolactone ALONE would be great to clear our minds.
- If it is used since the 80´s, why is not popular? We google the entire world and we find very few info.
- About the "i believe it works, but only stops MBP it doesn´t regrow" theory in this thread .. Well that seems very "strange", doesn´t it? Any medicin that stops male pattern baldness alows some regrowth in some users, because the folicles are allowed to "breathe" from DHT destroying action, so why is spironolactone different in this area?
The answer seems clear to me, spironolactone is inneficient, and scientific community have realized it. Otherwise this would be a very talked and researched product!
Anyway this is MY OPINION. It may very well be a bunch od bullsh# but at least that´s what I think.
Cheers
NotWithoutAFight
New Member
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To share my experience...
I've been using Dr. Lee's 5% spironolactone on the hairline and 2% on the crown for ~8 months; in combination with fincar, nizoral, and minoxidil. I have had adequate maintenance, except in the area of what I call the "greater temple" region. That is where I'm most diffuse and seemingly continue to slowly lose ground despite the combination of nightly, direct application, of 5% spironolactone cream and every other night application of Dr. Lee's 15% minoxidil+finasteride (I've been applying some form and concentration of minoxidil to my temples for 3+ years, in addition to the quartered fincar pills every night). Unfortunately for my temples anything I've tried does not seem to be the answer. May be good evidence of the 5% spironolactone fast-metabolizing into the blood stream theory that would explain why the hair loss has continued.
Anyways, that's been my story. Not to say that it's gospel and I would love to be refuted by some more success stories or, better yet, clinical trials.
P.S. Never had an issue ordering from Dr. Lee (don't recall any consultation business). Just went to minoxidil.com, added the products I wanted to my shopping cart, paid and 5-10 business days later received them in the mail (I'm in Canada, too!).
I've been using Dr. Lee's 5% spironolactone on the hairline and 2% on the crown for ~8 months; in combination with fincar, nizoral, and minoxidil. I have had adequate maintenance, except in the area of what I call the "greater temple" region. That is where I'm most diffuse and seemingly continue to slowly lose ground despite the combination of nightly, direct application, of 5% spironolactone cream and every other night application of Dr. Lee's 15% minoxidil+finasteride (I've been applying some form and concentration of minoxidil to my temples for 3+ years, in addition to the quartered fincar pills every night). Unfortunately for my temples anything I've tried does not seem to be the answer. May be good evidence of the 5% spironolactone fast-metabolizing into the blood stream theory that would explain why the hair loss has continued.
Anyways, that's been my story. Not to say that it's gospel and I would love to be refuted by some more success stories or, better yet, clinical trials.
P.S. Never had an issue ordering from Dr. Lee (don't recall any consultation business). Just went to minoxidil.com, added the products I wanted to my shopping cart, paid and 5-10 business days later received them in the mail (I'm in Canada, too!).
flamingpie
Established Member
- Reaction score
- 1
just received my s5 cream today (extremely fast shipping btw).
I got a question that has probably been asked a million times but i cant find it in the forum...
which do you apply first, spironolactone or minoxidil? and how long does it have to be between each of their applications?
I got a question that has probably been asked a million times but i cant find it in the forum...
which do you apply first, spironolactone or minoxidil? and how long does it have to be between each of their applications?
knowingyou
Established Member
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This is the answer of your question from Dr Lee's website>
"When 5% Spironolactone Lotion is used with Regrowth topical minoxidil or Xandrox, apply the minoxidil solution first. Allow several minutes for it to partially dry, and then apply the 5% Spironolactone Lotion directly on top of the minoxidil or Xandrox solution. The lotion will act as an occlusive dressing and enhance the absorption of both medications. "
"When 5% Spironolactone Lotion is used with Regrowth topical minoxidil or Xandrox, apply the minoxidil solution first. Allow several minutes for it to partially dry, and then apply the 5% Spironolactone Lotion directly on top of the minoxidil or Xandrox solution. The lotion will act as an occlusive dressing and enhance the absorption of both medications. "
KeepTheHair
Established Member
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Yeah... but the problem is that spironolactone stinks way more when it is on minoxidil.
when I applied Xandrox 15- PLUS then spironolactone it smelled like something died on my head and took a crap while it was there. Xandrox should have enough DHT blocking ability though(alone).
I use spironolactone when I use lower concentration minoxidil. But I think it still doesn't really smell great at all... Gonna try it again today and will report back.
when I applied Xandrox 15- PLUS then spironolactone it smelled like something died on my head and took a crap while it was there. Xandrox should have enough DHT blocking ability though(alone).
I use spironolactone when I use lower concentration minoxidil. But I think it still doesn't really smell great at all... Gonna try it again today and will report back.
Hey guys, I said I would post about my S5 experience when I knew a bit more about it from longer use.
At this point I can say that it definitely works for me in terms of blocking androgens and, in the process, completely eliminating scalp inflammation. I have no doubt if I kept using it that it would eliminate hair loss for me, thicken existing hair and perhaps in time regrow hair (I am a Norwood 1 diffusely thinning over what looks like it might eventually become a Norwood 4). I use a microscope to monitor my scalp and can tell you that my scalp health improved dramatically in just a few weeks. Hair strength improved, loss stopped and hair quality felt great. Now the bad news....
I got sides. Believe it or not I got sides that are commonly associated with internal use of spironolactone. After about 2 weeks I started getting uncomfortable sensations under both nipples. There is NOTHING else that could have been causing it. I tried cutting back to every other day use and cutting the amount applied back as well (not that I made heavy applications to start with). It only got worse. My pecs were rapidly becoming breasts with harder tissue beneath my nipples and fatty deposits over the larger pec area. I quit cold turkey at that point and can say that after 2 1/2 weeks off things are resolving themselves. I am now using spectral DNC-L sort of as a last resort 1x/daily and am so far happy to say that it seems to be keeping my inflammation under control somehow. We'll see if it gets worse again the further I get from the spironolactone.
I am not going to tell people not to use spironolactone, nor am I going to categorically state that there is systemic absorption. I know Bryan swears there is not and that study (albeit only on 6 people - did they apply it to the scalp on anyone) indicates there is none. Ditto Dr. Lee and just about everyone else. I will say that it is possible that it can get absorbed systemically and if you are sensitive to things like gyno then it could be a problem. FWIW I had to quit finasteride after about a week because I was getting gyno type sides. I apparently am really sensitive to it. I know my T was high in the last blood work I had done. Blocking dht and thus increasing T could lead to increased estradiol hence the gyno with finasteride. Not so sure the mechanism for the topical spironolactone. Maybe my tissue there is just super sensitive to estrogen.
Anyway, good luck to those using sprio. I have an unopened tin of S5 for sale and a very lightly used tin to give away.
Garnett
At this point I can say that it definitely works for me in terms of blocking androgens and, in the process, completely eliminating scalp inflammation. I have no doubt if I kept using it that it would eliminate hair loss for me, thicken existing hair and perhaps in time regrow hair (I am a Norwood 1 diffusely thinning over what looks like it might eventually become a Norwood 4). I use a microscope to monitor my scalp and can tell you that my scalp health improved dramatically in just a few weeks. Hair strength improved, loss stopped and hair quality felt great. Now the bad news....
I got sides. Believe it or not I got sides that are commonly associated with internal use of spironolactone. After about 2 weeks I started getting uncomfortable sensations under both nipples. There is NOTHING else that could have been causing it. I tried cutting back to every other day use and cutting the amount applied back as well (not that I made heavy applications to start with). It only got worse. My pecs were rapidly becoming breasts with harder tissue beneath my nipples and fatty deposits over the larger pec area. I quit cold turkey at that point and can say that after 2 1/2 weeks off things are resolving themselves. I am now using spectral DNC-L sort of as a last resort 1x/daily and am so far happy to say that it seems to be keeping my inflammation under control somehow. We'll see if it gets worse again the further I get from the spironolactone.
I am not going to tell people not to use spironolactone, nor am I going to categorically state that there is systemic absorption. I know Bryan swears there is not and that study (albeit only on 6 people - did they apply it to the scalp on anyone) indicates there is none. Ditto Dr. Lee and just about everyone else. I will say that it is possible that it can get absorbed systemically and if you are sensitive to things like gyno then it could be a problem. FWIW I had to quit finasteride after about a week because I was getting gyno type sides. I apparently am really sensitive to it. I know my T was high in the last blood work I had done. Blocking dht and thus increasing T could lead to increased estradiol hence the gyno with finasteride. Not so sure the mechanism for the topical spironolactone. Maybe my tissue there is just super sensitive to estrogen.
Anyway, good luck to those using sprio. I have an unopened tin of S5 for sale and a very lightly used tin to give away.
Garnett
skallagrimur
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garnett said:
I had the same experience. Happy to read that it resolved it self for you.
Is it too soon to tell about your experience with DNC-L? Have you found something else to use? Have you tried Revivogen?