Samumed Sm04554 Results Normalized To Baseline

[Isneezedsohard]

They're a private company, just because they're valued at 12 billion doesn't mean they have anything near that, even it terms of potential. I'd also take anything he says with a pinch of salt.

Pegasus was pretty apt with his comparison to Theranos, CEO is making big claims that are likely unsubstantiated. I cannot imagine anyone with a background in cellular/molecular biology is taking anything he says too seriously.

yeah-- f*** this guy. There's no way they've done all those things. It would be f*****g huge news

 

[trialAcc]

yeah-- f*** this guy. There's no way they've done all those things. It would be f*****g huge news

You mean huge news like being one of the biggest biotech start ups in the USA?

 

[franzliszt]

Someone else has asked this already, but is there a set date for the phase three results? From what I understand, it won't be as efficacious as minoxidil, but at least it won't age your skin (I hope).

 

[Tom4362]

Someone else has asked this already, but is there a set date for the phase three results? From what I understand, it won't be as efficacious as minoxidil, but at least it won't age your skin (I hope).

No

 

[coolio]

Theranos was discussed in many big news sources before they sh*t the bed. Mainstream coverage is not proof of legitimacy.

The Samumed claims are way too grandiose. They sound like some 1800s snake oil salesman. "It cures what ails you! Makes you stronger! Brings back your virility! Makes you wiser! Straightens your teeth! Smooths your wrinkles!"

 

[Gegen]

Theranos was discussed in many big news sources before they sh*t the bed. Mainstream coverage is not proof of legitimacy.

The Samumed claims are way too grandiose. They sound like some 1800s snake oil salesman. "It cures what ails you! Makes you stronger! Brings back your virility! Makes you wiser! Straightens your teeth! Smooths your wrinkles!"

 

[coolio]

What part of my comment is wrong?

 

[Gegen]

What part of my comment is wrong?

What you say in your comment has been said several times here.

 

[Throwaway94]

I'd just like to remind everyone that it's already readily available. A year's supply for 500 bucks and that's from extortionate sites like Kane, even cheaper from Chinese labs. People are using this already. If it was groundbreaking we'd know.

 

[Throwaway94]

Always trust some dubious Chinese website

Small handful of legit factories, and I figured Kane is generally reliable.

 

[Throwaway94]

which version is offered, the 0.25 or 0.15 variant?

The powder

 

[trialAcc]

I'd just like to remind everyone that it's already readily available. A year's supply for 500 bucks and that's from extortionate sites like Kane, even cheaper from Chinese labs. People are using this already. If it was groundbreaking we'd know.

That's what people are saying about CB as well while using 2%~ concentrations and lab test are coming back with under 50% purity lol

 

[trialAcc]

There's also people using CB with 99% purity (independently tests), recently someone got SM tested and it came back 98%. It was pretty much Kane who was sending out bunk.

So we have a confirmed sample size of one, got it lol

I'm just saying that just because people are using it doesn't immediately qualify the effectiveness of the drug. People use different dosages. purities, frequencies of applications and vehicles then will be used in the official trial.

 

[trialAcc]

One person got the batch tested, multiple people have it from the same batch.

Generally most people are following the same protocols that produced the best outcomes in studies.

Yeah I'm still just going to go off of what real data from several hundred people tell me. Also not claiming this is revolutionary or anything close, just hopefully a substitute or addition to minoxodil. Individual user reports are much too small a sample size and treatments are far too varied to go off of what a handful of people self-sourcing drugs are reporting. We've all seen finasteride or minoxodil produce and hold significant gains for some people, yet we all know this is not the norm nor what would be seen in any studies.

They also tweak protocols between phase 2 and 3 when they test for pure efficacy.

 

[frank33]

Experiments from random people through the forum don't mean nothing.
Clinical trials are extremely complex and costly to produce something as not biased and as near to objective truth as possible.
They take months just to enroll the right participants avoiding anything possibly conflicting with the drug efficacy.
It's dumb to think that results from random people that buy chemicals from black market, mix everything themselves and
most of the times give up after a couple of months can have any scientific value.

 

[coolio]

It's dumb to think that results from random people that buy chemicals from black market, mix everything themselves and
most of the times give up after a couple of months can have any scientific value.

Depends on the circumstances.

Basically nothing (that currently exists) works against our problem. If 8 guys on the forum tried a new drug, and 6 of them regrew a couple of norwood levels, that would be very worthwhile info. It's pretty goddamn likely that the drug caused it. Or at least played a necessary role in it.

 

[MrV88]

I'd just like to remind everyone that it's already readily available. A year's supply for 500 bucks and that's from extortionate sites like Kane, even cheaper from Chinese labs. People are using this already. If it was groundbreaking we'd know.

Sure, because we totally know how to use it, how much of it, if it's daily, weekly or wtf AND it's totally legit from a Chinese lab, because they got the rights to it, why not just skip Phase 3 and get FDA approval from the lab?

 

[jan_miezda]

for people who like to experiment, scroll to table 1 in this paper. It shows tonnes of molecules that activate the wnt pathway for hair growth:

Targeting Wnt/β-Catenin Pathway for Developing Therapies for Hair Loss

Persistent hair loss is a major cause of psychological distress and compromised quality of life in millions of people worldwide. Remarkable progress has been made in understanding the molecular basis of hair loss and identifying valid intracellular targets ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Lots of great results with application in humans too for a bunch of them

Tocotrienol [IMG alt="An external file that holds a picture, illustration, etc. Object name is ijms-21-04915-i001.jpg"]https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7404278/bin/ijms-21-04915-i001.jpg[/IMG]​	Incubation of HaCaT keratinocytes with 1 μM for 24 h Topical application (5 mg/cm2 skin) for 21 days in male C57BL/6 mice Human trial: 35 volunteers, tocotrienol capsule (50 mg) twice daily for 8 months​	Reduced expression of E-cadherin. TCF3 activation by increasing nuclear translocation of β-catenin. The db/db mice showed an increase in the number of anagen hair follicles. Inhibited the expression of epidermal E-cadherin, Oct4, Sox9, Klf4, c-Myc, and Nanog. Increased 34% in hair counts. (Baseline 284.8 ± 111.3 vs. after treatment 383.1 ±120.9)​	[60,63]​
3,4,5-tri-O-caffeoylquinic acid [IMG alt="An external file that holds a picture, illustration, etc. Object name is ijms-21-04915-i002.jpg"]https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7404278/bin/ijms-21-04915-i002.jpg[/IMG]​	Treatment of human DPCs with 10 μM for 48 h Topical application (1% aqueous solution) in C3H mice​	Significantly enhanced the 60% ATP content. Enhanced the hair growth by approximately 40%, 80%, and 120% at Days 14, 20, and 30 after treatment. Activation of Wnt/β-catenin signaling pathway.​	[64]​
Loliolide [IMG alt="An external file that holds a picture, illustration, etc. Object name is ijms-21-04915-i003.jpg"]https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7404278/bin/ijms-21-04915-i003.jpg[/IMG]​	Human DPCs treated with 20 μg/mL for 48 h​	Increased spheroid size. Increased growth factor (IGF-1, VEGF.) Hair induction through the activation of AKT-mediated Wnt signaling.​	[65]​
Sinapic acid [IMG alt="An external file that holds a picture, illustration, etc. Object name is ijms-21-04915-i004.jpg"]https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7404278/bin/ijms-21-04915-i004.jpg[/IMG]​	Human hair follicle DPCs incubated with 10, 50, and 100 μM of the compound​	Increased hair count to the levels of 118.3%, 119.2%, and 150.5%. Activation of β-catenin, p-GSK-3β and growth factor (IGF-1, VEGF).​	[66]​
Costunolide [IMG alt="An external file that holds a picture, illustration, etc. Object name is ijms-21-04915-i005.jpg"]https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7404278/bin/ijms-21-04915-i005.jpg[/IMG]​	Human hair follicle DPCs treated with 3 μM for 48 h. C57BL/6 mice treated topically with 200 µL of costunolide (3 µmol/L) twice daily for 15 days,​	Promoted the cell proliferation through WNT-β-catenin, hedgehog-Gli activity and inhibition of the TGF-β1-Smad pathway. Promoted significant hair growth in mice. The diameter and depth of hair follicles are significantly higher.​	[67,68]​
Baicalin [IMG alt="An external file that holds a picture, illustration, etc. Object name is ijms-21-04915-i006.jpg"]https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7404278/bin/ijms-21-04915-i006.jpg[/IMG]​	Skin and epidermal cells were isolated from the skin of a C57BL/6 mouse grafted in a 1:1 ratio by incising a wound on the back of a Balb/c-nu mouse and treated with 50 μmol or 100 μmol for 28days.​	Significantly increased TCF/LEF reporter activity. Increased ALP activity and stimulates the expression of Wnt3a, Wnt5a, frizzled 7 and disheveled 2. Activation of Wnt/β-catenin signaling and increased of ALP, IGF-1 and VEGF. Significantly increased hair shafts.​	[69]​
Silibinin [IMG alt="An external file that holds a picture, illustration, etc. Object name is ijms-21-04915-i007.jpg"]https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7404278/bin/ijms-21-04915-i007.jpg[/IMG]​	Human hair follicle DPCs treated with 10 μM for 48 h​	Increase of 13.53% in the viability of cells, enhances the formation of DP spheroids in vitro, Activates the Wnt/β-catenin signaling pathway and increased the expression of Wnt5a and Lef1. Elevated the phosphorylation of Akt.​	[70]​
Ginkgo biloba extract [IMG alt="An external file that holds a picture, illustration, etc. Object name is ijms-21-04915-i008.jpg"]https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7404278/bin/ijms-21-04915-i008.jpg[/IMG]​	Human hair follicle DPCs treated with 0, 25, 50, and 100 μM for 48 h.​	Increased cell growth on time and dose dependent activities of Akt, ERK1/2, and β-catenin.​	[71]​
Morroniside [IMG alt="An external file that holds a picture, illustration, etc. Object name is ijms-21-04915-i009.jpg"]https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7404278/bin/ijms-21-04915-i009.jpg[/IMG]​	Outer root sheath cell (ORSC) and DP cell incubated 10 µM for 72 h. C57BL/6 mice were injected into mouse HFs on post-depilation day: 100 µM in 100 μL (100 μL over 3 or 6 days)​	Significantly increased proliferation by 1.3-fold and increased ORSC migration. Upregulated Wnt10b, β-catenin and lef1 and regulates cell growth and development partly through the Wnt/β-catenin signaling pathway. Accelerated hair cycling from telogen to anagen Delay catagen progression.​	[72]​
polygonum multiflorum extract [IMG alt="An external file that holds a picture, illustration, etc. Object name is ijms-21-04915-i010.jpg"]https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7404278/bin/ijms-21-04915-i010.jpg[/IMG]​	C57BL6/N mics shaved on the dorsal skin were treated with a dose of 4.7 mg per 12 cm2 as topically for 1–4 weeks.​	Hair length was significantly longer, promotes hair growth by inducing anagen phase in resting hair follicles. Induction of β-catenin and Sonic hedgehog (Shh).​	[73,74]​
Prunus mira Koehne 2,3,5,4-tetrahydroxystilbene-2-O-β-d-gluoside (TSG) Seed(nut) oil (include α-tocopherol, Vitamin E, β-sitosterol, linoleic acid, and Oleic acid.)​	Crude oil 60.26 mg (cm2·day)−1 and 1/2 diluted in C57BL/6 mice were administered once every 7 days and observed on 21 days.​	Increasing Wnt 10 b, β-catenin mRNA and protein expression, and GSK-3 β protein expression. Significant increase in hair length, hair growth rate, and hair weight.​	[61]​
Red ginseng oil (RGO)​	Topical treatment with 10% RGO for 28 days on C57BL/6 mice​	Restored hair regenerative. Upregulated Wnt/β-catenin and Shh/Gli pathways-mediated expression of genes such as β-catenin, Lef-1, Sonic hedgehog, Smoothened, Gli-1, Cyclin D1, and Cyclin E.​	[62]​
Aconitie ciliare tuber Natural Plant extracts​	Human hair follicle DPCs and rat vibrissa dermal papilla cells (RvDP) treated with 5–50 µg/mL for 24 h. After dorsal skin, C57BL/6 mice were treated with topical treatment at 10 mg/mL for 5 weeks.​	Significant cell growth at 10 µg/mL. Activates the Wnt/β-catenin signaling pathway by enhancing β-catenin transcription. Induced early telogen-to-anagen phase conversion of hair follicles.​	[75]​
Thuja orientalis Natural Plant extracts (Platycladus orientalis)​	C57BL6/N mice shaved on the dorsal skin were treated with 5.05 mg/cm2/day as topically for 21 days​	Promotes hair growth, hair length and number of hair follicles. Induction of β-catenin and Shh.​	[76]​
Malva verticilata Natural Plant extracts (Chinese mallow)​	Human hair follicle DPCs treated with 20 µg/mL for 72 h.​	Increased cell proliferation. Increased β-catenin and increased transcription levels (IGF-1, KGF, VEGF and HGF)​

 

[Throwaway94]

Sure, because we totally know how to use it, how much of it, if it's daily, weekly or wtf AND it's totally legit from a Chinese lab, because they got the rights to it, why not just skip Phase 3 and get FDA approval from the lab?

It's 0.15% daily. The compound has existed longer than Samumed has been working on it for hair loss, they just chose to pursue it for that particular venture.

 

[Dimitri001]

for people who like to experiment, scroll to table 1 in this paper. It shows tonnes of molecules that activate the wnt pathway for hair growth:

Targeting Wnt/β-Catenin Pathway for Developing Therapies for Hair Loss

Persistent hair loss is a major cause of psychological distress and compromised quality of life in millions of people worldwide. Remarkable progress has been made in understanding the molecular basis of hair loss and identifying valid intracellular targets ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Lots of great results with application in humans too for a bunch of them

Tocotrienol [IMG alt="An external file that holds a picture, illustration, etc. Object name is ijms-21-04915-i001.jpg"]https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7404278/bin/ijms-21-04915-i001.jpg[/IMG]​	Incubation of HaCaT keratinocytes with 1 μM for 24 h Topical application (5 mg/cm2 skin) for 21 days in male C57BL/6 mice Human trial: 35 volunteers, tocotrienol capsule (50 mg) twice daily for 8 months​	Reduced expression of E-cadherin. TCF3 activation by increasing nuclear translocation of β-catenin. The db/db mice showed an increase in the number of anagen hair follicles. Inhibited the expression of epidermal E-cadherin, Oct4, Sox9, Klf4, c-Myc, and Nanog. Increased 34% in hair counts. (Baseline 284.8 ± 111.3 vs. after treatment 383.1 ±120.9)​	[60,63]​
3,4,5-tri-O-caffeoylquinic acid [IMG alt="An external file that holds a picture, illustration, etc. Object name is ijms-21-04915-i002.jpg"]https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7404278/bin/ijms-21-04915-i002.jpg[/IMG]​	Treatment of human DPCs with 10 μM for 48 h Topical application (1% aqueous solution) in C3H mice​	Significantly enhanced the 60% ATP content. Enhanced the hair growth by approximately 40%, 80%, and 120% at Days 14, 20, and 30 after treatment. Activation of Wnt/β-catenin signaling pathway.​	[64]​
Loliolide [IMG alt="An external file that holds a picture, illustration, etc. Object name is ijms-21-04915-i003.jpg"]https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7404278/bin/ijms-21-04915-i003.jpg[/IMG]​	Human DPCs treated with 20 μg/mL for 48 h​	Increased spheroid size. Increased growth factor (IGF-1, VEGF.) Hair induction through the activation of AKT-mediated Wnt signaling.​	[65]​
Sinapic acid [IMG alt="An external file that holds a picture, illustration, etc. Object name is ijms-21-04915-i004.jpg"]https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7404278/bin/ijms-21-04915-i004.jpg[/IMG]​	Human hair follicle DPCs incubated with 10, 50, and 100 μM of the compound​	Increased hair count to the levels of 118.3%, 119.2%, and 150.5%. Activation of β-catenin, p-GSK-3β and growth factor (IGF-1, VEGF).​	[66]​
Costunolide [IMG alt="An external file that holds a picture, illustration, etc. Object name is ijms-21-04915-i005.jpg"]https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7404278/bin/ijms-21-04915-i005.jpg[/IMG]​	Human hair follicle DPCs treated with 3 μM for 48 h. C57BL/6 mice treated topically with 200 µL of costunolide (3 µmol/L) twice daily for 15 days,​	Promoted the cell proliferation through WNT-β-catenin, hedgehog-Gli activity and inhibition of the TGF-β1-Smad pathway. Promoted significant hair growth in mice. The diameter and depth of hair follicles are significantly higher.​	[67,68]​
Baicalin [IMG alt="An external file that holds a picture, illustration, etc. Object name is ijms-21-04915-i006.jpg"]https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7404278/bin/ijms-21-04915-i006.jpg[/IMG]​	Skin and epidermal cells were isolated from the skin of a C57BL/6 mouse grafted in a 1:1 ratio by incising a wound on the back of a Balb/c-nu mouse and treated with 50 μmol or 100 μmol for 28days.​	Significantly increased TCF/LEF reporter activity. Increased ALP activity and stimulates the expression of Wnt3a, Wnt5a, frizzled 7 and disheveled 2. Activation of Wnt/β-catenin signaling and increased of ALP, IGF-1 and VEGF. Significantly increased hair shafts.​	[69]​
Silibinin [IMG alt="An external file that holds a picture, illustration, etc. Object name is ijms-21-04915-i007.jpg"]https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7404278/bin/ijms-21-04915-i007.jpg[/IMG]​	Human hair follicle DPCs treated with 10 μM for 48 h​	Increase of 13.53% in the viability of cells, enhances the formation of DP spheroids in vitro, Activates the Wnt/β-catenin signaling pathway and increased the expression of Wnt5a and Lef1. Elevated the phosphorylation of Akt.​	[70]​
Ginkgo biloba extract [IMG alt="An external file that holds a picture, illustration, etc. Object name is ijms-21-04915-i008.jpg"]https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7404278/bin/ijms-21-04915-i008.jpg[/IMG]​	Human hair follicle DPCs treated with 0, 25, 50, and 100 μM for 48 h.​	Increased cell growth on time and dose dependent activities of Akt, ERK1/2, and β-catenin.​	[71]​
Morroniside [IMG alt="An external file that holds a picture, illustration, etc. Object name is ijms-21-04915-i009.jpg"]https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7404278/bin/ijms-21-04915-i009.jpg[/IMG]​	Outer root sheath cell (ORSC) and DP cell incubated 10 µM for 72 h. C57BL/6 mice were injected into mouse HFs on post-depilation day: 100 µM in 100 μL (100 μL over 3 or 6 days)​	Significantly increased proliferation by 1.3-fold and increased ORSC migration. Upregulated Wnt10b, β-catenin and lef1 and regulates cell growth and development partly through the Wnt/β-catenin signaling pathway. Accelerated hair cycling from telogen to anagen Delay catagen progression.​	[72]​
polygonum multiflorum extract [IMG alt="An external file that holds a picture, illustration, etc. Object name is ijms-21-04915-i010.jpg"]https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7404278/bin/ijms-21-04915-i010.jpg[/IMG]​	C57BL6/N mics shaved on the dorsal skin were treated with a dose of 4.7 mg per 12 cm2 as topically for 1–4 weeks.​	Hair length was significantly longer, promotes hair growth by inducing anagen phase in resting hair follicles. Induction of β-catenin and Sonic hedgehog (Shh).​	[73,74]​
Prunus mira Koehne 2,3,5,4-tetrahydroxystilbene-2-O-β-d-gluoside (TSG) Seed(nut) oil (include α-tocopherol, Vitamin E, β-sitosterol, linoleic acid, and Oleic acid.)​	Crude oil 60.26 mg (cm2·day)−1 and 1/2 diluted in C57BL/6 mice were administered once every 7 days and observed on 21 days.​	Increasing Wnt 10 b, β-catenin mRNA and protein expression, and GSK-3 β protein expression. Significant increase in hair length, hair growth rate, and hair weight.​	[61]​
Red ginseng oil (RGO)​	Topical treatment with 10% RGO for 28 days on C57BL/6 mice​	Restored hair regenerative. Upregulated Wnt/β-catenin and Shh/Gli pathways-mediated expression of genes such as β-catenin, Lef-1, Sonic hedgehog, Smoothened, Gli-1, Cyclin D1, and Cyclin E.​	[62]​
Aconitie ciliare tuber Natural Plant extracts​	Human hair follicle DPCs and rat vibrissa dermal papilla cells (RvDP) treated with 5–50 µg/mL for 24 h. After dorsal skin, C57BL/6 mice were treated with topical treatment at 10 mg/mL for 5 weeks.​	Significant cell growth at 10 µg/mL. Activates the Wnt/β-catenin signaling pathway by enhancing β-catenin transcription. Induced early telogen-to-anagen phase conversion of hair follicles.​	[75]​
Thuja orientalis Natural Plant extracts (Platycladus orientalis)​	C57BL6/N mice shaved on the dorsal skin were treated with 5.05 mg/cm2/day as topically for 21 days​	Promotes hair growth, hair length and number of hair follicles. Induction of β-catenin and Shh.​	[76]​
Malva verticilata Natural Plant extracts (Chinese mallow)​	Human hair follicle DPCs treated with 20 µg/mL for 72 h.​	Increased cell proliferation. Increased β-catenin and increased transcription levels (IGF-1, KGF, VEGF and HGF)​

Someone less lazy than me sholud post this in the studies section. A lot of good info here, should have its own thread.