SimpsonKnight's story

[SimpsonKnight]

Hello HairLossTalk.com. I am new to this forum so please forgive any dumb questions or comments. Unlike some of the other's I read, my story isn't particularly long or complicated. I am 18, living in Canada, just finished high school and starting university in about 2 weeks. I noticed some hair loss about a year ago but it was very, very mild and could hardly be called hair loss. I basically had a more distinguished hair line then some of my friends but thats about it. I completely forgot about it until about last winter when I noticed that my hairline was considerably more "distinguished" than that of my friends but once again I didnt pay it much attention. Than I started noticing hairs on my pillow. Every morning I would wake up and find a good number of hairs on my pillow and sheets which was alaming but not exceedingly so. In the back of my head I made plans to see my doctor but never really followed through with them. A few months later, and I remeber this very clearly because that was when I finally realised that something was definatelly wrong, I was sitting in one of my classes, looked down on my desk and saw maybe three or four hairs. I brushed them away, a few minutes went by, I looked down again, and saw more hairs. This continued until the end of the school year. I have a fairly long hair cut so nothing was ever noticeable unless I brushed my bangs back and then my constantly receding hairline would come into view. At this point it is between levels 2 and 3 on the Norwood Scale. My crown seems fine but the hairline has definatelly receded on the sides (especially the left).

I made an appointment with my family doctor. She ordered some blood tests which turned out to be fine and then said that it is likely to be male pattern baldness. She prescribed Propecia on my request and that was basically it. The thing is me getting male pattern baldness always seemed very unlikely because my maternal grandfather, who is now 73, still has a full head of hair. My father, 54, has just now experienced very minor hairline recession. Don't know about my paternal grandfather because I have never even seen a picture of him. Nevertheless, against all odds, here I am.

For the moment I have not started taking Propecia. I stil have the prescription though. The thing is the whacky side effects kind of scared me. I am thinking of going back to my family doctor and getting a prescription for Rogaine instead. Any thoughts on this? I assume many people here have tried Propecia. What were the results? Were the side effects a major bother? What is the genral consensus regarding Rogaine? Are there any other major medications I am missing?

What about wigs, toupes, hairpieces, etc? I know thats a silly idea but is it something that people actually do? I am sure there is a place where you could get them custom made to perfectly fit your head... I am really sorry about all of the dumb questions, it's just, as you can probably imagine, this has been heavily on my mind for a while.

I guess that's about where I stand as of right now. I've obviously done a lot of googling but would love to hear advice and opinions from others who have faced or are facing this issue themselves.

Wow. As I am writing this message, I just found a hair on my keyboard.

So ya, there is my story and I am looking forward to chatting with you all.

 

[RecedingAt19]

Why are you worried about the side effects so much? You know, out of the people using Propecia only 2% experienced side effects, that's a 98% chance you won't get any side effects. And if the side effects are really bad you can get off Propecia and everything will return to normal after 1 month.


Here are myths and facts about Propecia

Myth: Women can’t touch the medication.
Fact: Pregnant women should not handle crushed or broken tablets.

Myth: It only works in the crown.
Fact: It potentially works any where on the scalp where there is some hair, even in the front of the scalp.

Myth: Once you start it you must take it for ever.
Fact: You can stop the medication any time you want – you just lose its benefits when one stops.

Myth: Finasteride lowers testosterone
Fact: The medication, on average, causes a rise in serum testosterone levels by 9%.

Myth: The sexual side effects are frequent and irreversible.
Fact: The sexual side effects occur in 2% and are reversible when the medication is stopped.

Myth: Finasteride causes birth defects if a man takes it when his wife is pregnant.
Fact: Exposure of pregnant women to semen from men treated with Propecia poses no risk to the fetus.

Myth: Propecia was originally a prostate medication that was found to prevent hair loss.
Fact: Propecia is not a prostate medication that was by chance noted to have a side effect of hair growth, it is a medication that was known since its discovery that it could grow hair.

http://www.bernsteinmedical.com/medical ... nt-photos/ It's from this website, it also has plenty of pictures of before and after, check out the results.

 

[TheLastHairbender]

For the moment I have not started taking Propecia. I stil have the prescription though. The thing is the whacky side effects kind of scared me.

I swear, propeciahelp has done as much to perpetuate hair loss as DHT itself. I would never visit that site if I were you. The most likely way to induce side effects is to think and worry about what's happening inside your balls all day.

I am thinking of going back to my family doctor and getting a prescription for Rogaine instead. Any thoughts on this? I assume many people here have tried Propecia. What were the results? Were the side effects a major bother? What is the genral consensus regarding Rogaine? Are there any other major medications I am missing?

Where are you located? Canada? UK? Rogaine is not prescription in the US, just go down to CVS and pick up a 3-pack for $45.

If you're asking these kinds of questions it's clear you have a lot of reading to do on this site. Propecia and Rogaine are categorically distinct medications. In a nutshell Propecia stops the hairloss (but can still contribute to thickening and regrowth), Rogaine does not stop hairloss but instead replaces lost hairs with new ones, which you need to continue using Rogaine every day, twice a day, to maintain. In my opinion, Rogaine is probably ten times more inconvenient, three times the cost (for me), and only a fraction of the effectiveness of finasteride. I use both but if I had to choose one or the other, well, it's easy to see which I'd pick.

For me, finasteride has made me look so much better, I don't have any negative side effects, I feel effing great, still get wood 10 times a day. The only difference is that now I actually get to use it many of those times. At least through the present moment, It's the best choice I've ever made.

But at your age I would probably have some concerns too. I started on my 26th birthday. You don't want to inhibit your natural male development, and I'm not sure if all of your secondary sex characteristics have yet been expressed. But hey if it's good enough for your doctor then what the heck, although I would hate to have to take a female MD's opinion about male pattern baldness.

I've documented everything I've done since day 1 very clearly and completely in my story, feel free to take a look, it covers my experience with finasteride in detail: http://tiny.cc/wxcmy.

What about wigs, toupes, hairpieces, etc? I know thats a silly idea but is it something that people actually do? I am sure there is a place where you could get them custom made to perfectly fit your head...

Welcome to HairLossTalk.com. Post your pics so we can keep up with your progress.

 

[SimpsonKnight]

Will post pictures shortly. To answer your question, I live in Canada. I dont think Rogaine is sold over the counter here, and I am pretty sure the extra strength (5%?) stuff isn't sold here at all. Which is kind of too bad.

I read your story and it really is quite inspiring. I mean the hair regrowth is one thing, but I think what's most impressive is that you managed to stick to such a intricate regimen for such a long time. I think thats more than what most people could do. Kudos!

What about Laser Hair Treatments? I've heard a bit about those but are they at all a viable possibility? Thats the one thing I could not find any decent articles about. Has anyone on these forums tried them?

Once again, sorry for all the questions, I just wanna learn as much as possible about all the options out there.

 

[hugeleap]

Hey man, I live in Canada too. My family has a place down in the states and the last time I went down there I brought some rogaine back with me, but I have done a lot of research on the net and there's a few websites which will ship either the foam or liquid (5%) to Canada. There are also vendors on ebay who sell rogaine to Canadians. Keep in mind that the liquid is ideal, but some people can only use the foam (including myself) because of an allergic reaction to the propylene glycol n the liquid.

As thelasthairbender mentioned, finasteride can be a very important aspect of any successful hair growth regimen. As my doctor described, he has hundreds of guys on finasteride and they all come back to renew their prescriptions. He said he has not had anyone who experienced significant side effects, and hes been a doctor for a long time. To be honest, when I started using it I freaked out and the first couple of days I couldn't get a decent erection. Each time I tried I kept thinking about the finasteride and couldn't do it. About the 4th day I came home from work pissed off about my job, went to my computer and started going at it and realized halfway through that I had a full erection. I was so pissed off from work that I wasn't thinking about the finasteride at all. I realized at that point that everything I was experiencing down there before was in my head. It has been almost two months since then and I haven't had one issue having sex with my gf or masturbating since. In fact, I've found my libido and erections better than ever. Meanwhile, all itching has disappeared from my scalp. It's probably too early to see results at this point, but even if I didn't I would use it for the loss of itchiness alone.

As for keto shampoo, in Canada we have access to 2% over the counter. It's called Nizoral and is available at basically every pharmacy. It's basically used to stop the itching and inflammation associated with balding, and is an anti-androgen.

Anyways, I recommend getting started with those 3 things and let us know how things go. Take pictures every month, stick to the regimen, and enjoy life while you wait. Good luck!

 

[SimpsonKnight]

Well, I mean I am keeping all my options open. Propecia is definatelly not out and I probably will end up taking it. I think I am gonna talk to my doctor about it again though. When I first brought up Propecia and Rogaine, she didn't know anything about them. She was just like "I think there are side effects but its up to you" and she wrote the prescription. I think perhpas I should go back to her and talk about the side effects? I don't know... This would be easier if my doctor was male...

Do you know if the regular strength Rogaine is sold over the counter here in Canada? if it is, I'll pick some up very soon.

But ya, and this is directed at anyone and everyone, what about Laser Hair Treatments? I couldn't find very much about them on the web, in terms of like customer reviews I mean. So has anyone here dabbled with laser treatments? From what I understand they have a high success rate?

Will post pics in my next post.

 

[SimpsonKnight]

Alright, so here are some pictures.

My hair is usually flatter but I washed it this morning.

So the first one basically shows what my hair usually looks like. Not too bad right?

The last two show what's hiding underneath. Where would it place on the Norwood scale?

So ya. I feel like Ill look at these pics two months from now and get clinically depressed about how much hair I used to have.

 

[Joe-1991]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12314687

Watch that. It should help you put things in perspective.

 

[SimpsonKnight]

I don't understand your point though. That my situation could be worse? That at least I am not paralyzed and blind? Well that could be said about everyone on this site and the vast majority of the world. That doesn't make my or anyone elses problems smaller.

 

[TheLastHairbender]

Hey SK, great pics. Your hair still looks really great, you're definitely doing the right thing by getting out in front of it so you can preserve it for years to come. If you could maintain the hairline you have now you'd be in great shape, as I would consider yours the classical mature hairline. Let's just try to keep it from creeping up any further and thinning out over the NW5 area. I'm no expert but from my casual observation I would call it an NW2 - 3. You can consider it a bad NW2 (in terms of hairline recession) or a good NW3 (the rest of it is still great), whichever makes you feel better.

Speaking from just my own personal experience: I'd seriously consider finasteride. I hesitate to advocate for finasteride for someone as young as you, so definitely take care in making the decision. I think hugeleap really hit the nail on the head - I believe you do have some control over the manifestation of finasteride's sides. That said I also believe there can be real side effects, I highly respect HairLossTalk.com user finfighter and wholeheartedly believe the things he says about finasteride's effects on him. It can be tricky to sort out what's real and what's in your head, and how you individually respond to something. The only real way to find out is to try it and keep a positive attitude. I forced that attitude on myself for a few months and now, seeing regrowth and a lack of sides, feel much more comfortable taking the medicine.

If I were you I would try to avoid minoxidil at this point. You really don't need any regrowth, and the cost and hassle of using minoxidil twice daily just probably isn't worth it in your case. I would use finasteride to maintain and save the minoxidil for when the day comes that you need to take it up a notch. In other words, don't burn up all your ammo so quickly. I got on both at the same time because I had just hit 26 and was mere months away from slick bald. For your situation I think finasteride has the ideal effect and minoxidil would be a lot of work for little benefit. Really though it depends: If you are already really embarrased about your hair and want to see marked improvement then maybe you should consider minoxidil. I have the impression though that you're being pre-emptive in preventing it from getting worse in the coming years, so for that minoxidil probably isn't necessary.

I'll also give my usual plug for topical spironolactone. I really like it but in general opinions are mixed. I don't think it's a very risky treatment, so if you can spare the $10-$15 a month it could be another way to prevent further recession - either in addition to finasteride or as a weaker replacement for it. spironolactone is an 'anti-androgen' though, like finasteride, which means that it will help stop further hair loss and stop/reverse hair miniaturization, but isn't likely to make new hairs start shooting out of dormant follicles (which is what 'growth promoters' like minoxidil do). IMO, you don't need a growth promoter yet, you need an anti-androgen to stop male pattern baldness from taking over that lovely Bieber cut.

The 1 or 2% ketoconazole shampoo (Nizoral) is a great idea top. I really think you'd do just fine on the 'big 2': finasteride and ketoconazole shampoo, omitting the usual third component in minoxidil.

Most importantly: Get committed to doing these few things every day as part of your regular lifestyle so that hair maintenance doesn't have to be such a chore. Treat it like brushing your teeth and washing your face and do it with strict regularity and try not to think about it every day. You're doing the right thing by working to understand hair loss and getting on a treatment plan early. Now just get the ball rolling then relax and get back to your life before hair loss was an issue. I'd also recommend setting a day each month to take pictures and post them to your story here, if for nothing else than just to help yourself track progress over time. You may look back and get depressed over how much hair you used to have, like you said, but by staying disciplined and headstrong you can avoid it. I'm sorry you have to grow up a little faster than your peers, but nature thrust that upon you and all you can do now is heed the call or suffer.

Finally, regarding LLLT (low level laser therapy) I really don't know much about it yet either. I do know it's an expensive and inconvenient route, but it does have some level of US FDA support for its use in treating male pattern baldness. I don't want to say too much and risk saying something incorrect, so maybe someone else can chime in or you may be going back to Google. I didn't search too hard on this topic but it did seem like an insufficient amount of reliable information was available. My attitude was to get the meds and topicals right first, then I could always look into LLLT once my progress slowed or the technology advanced. Regardless of whether it works or not or is right for you, it will still be a treatment option IN ADDITION to the big 3 and I'm sure using finasteride and keto will be recommended while getting LLLT treatment. I know there is a place here in Arizona that does LLLT, but they also put their patients on finasteride, keto shampoo, and minoxidil, so it would be a bit tough to make any statement about the benefits of laser therapy based on peoples' experiences at that clinic.

Best wishes, stay regular in your updates to your story and don't think about hair loss any more than you need to be effective in your treatment. I have a lot of info in my story about a few products I've used, but we have very different starting points so your treatment plan need not be as aggressive as mine has been, still it might be worth a look. Hope it helps!

 

[JolDee]

I'll also give my usual plug for topical spironolactone. I really like it but in general opinions are mixed. I don't think it's a very risky treatment, so if you can spare the $10-$15 a month it could be another way to prevent further recession - either in addition to finasteride or as a weaker replacement for it. spironolactone is an 'anti-androgen' though, like finasteride, which means that it will help stop further hair loss and stop/reverse hair miniaturization, but isn't likely to make new hairs start shooting out of dormant follicles (which is what 'growth promoters' like minoxidil do). IMO, you don't need a growth promoter yet, you need an anti-androgen to stop male pattern baldness from taking over that lovely Bieber cut.

I've never heard of this one - how well does spironolactone work?

You also talk about it being too soon for Minoxidil. I've read some reports that Minoxidil looses effectiveness after like 4 years, does that mean that it stops working entirely or does it just stop growing new hair? I would think the sooner you re-grow new hair the better - wrong?

 

[TheLastHairbender]

I've never heard of this one - how well does spironolactone work?

Man, I feel like I've written so much about spironolactone lately. I have a lot of details in my story about my experience, but basically I've been having really good results over the past three months with the big 3 and spironolactone. How much of that is attributable to the spironolactone? Can't say for sure, probably only a small part, if any, but it's so cheap and convenient that I wouldn't think of cutting it out at this point. Even if the direct benefit were nil, it feels good to apply, helps me style my hair now, and helps my attitude since I can dab a little around the temples mid-day and feel like I'm doing something potentially good for the situation. I wouldn't sacrifice finasteride or minoxidil for it, but if your budget isn't super tight and you don't mind adding a few minutes to your minoxidil routine I think it's a natural fourth step.

You also talk about it being too soon for Minoxidil. I've read some reports that Minoxidil looses effectiveness after like 4 years, does that mean that it stops working entirely or does it just stop growing new hair? I would think the sooner you re-grow new hair the better - wrong?

That's a good question. I think most people agree that the effect does taper off after a while. I suspect most people stop seeing positive gains after some period but can continue to maintain for some time after that. How long until you return to a normal balding pattern despite the regular use of minoxidil? I don't know but surely it varies considerably across individuals - you'll have to ask some of the old-timers about that. Frankly I'd rather not know the answer and then have to start watching and worrying about that. I'll play dumb for now and pretend it works forever.

But for SimpsonKnight's case, noting that reality, I don't think there's any point in overloading the temples with hair for a few years at the cost of giving up one of your weapons for maintaining the current look in the future. It's your choice though kid, go big for the next few years or play it slow and steady to keep it looking exactly like that for longer. I'd be comfortable with that hairline and shoot for longevity, but it's really a personal choice no one else can make.

 

[SimpsonKnight]

Hello again Hairlosstalk.com, TheLastHairbender and whoever else may be reading. Holly crap, it has been a while since I last posted. Unfortunately, a lot of very serious and unforeseen things came up over the last few months and I sort of got distracted from my hair related issues.

In one of my previous posts I predicted that I was going to, at some point in the future, look back at those pictures that I posted and get depressed about how much hair I used to have. Well, thats pretty much exactly whats happening right now. Unfortunately I have done next to nothing in the way of treatment in these couple of months. It turns out I have a condition that would only get worse if I took medications like Propecia, basically things that mess around with hormone-related things a lot, so I didnt start it yet. I still have the prescription that my doctor wrote though so I can start at any time.

Over the past few months my hair loss has only gotten worse. Its still not particularly noticeable if I do my hair correctly but its definitely there and getting worse with each day. Honestly, I dont really know what to do at this point. I've been trying to plan for the future a bit and did some research into hair pieces and wigs and stuff like that. The way I see it, if this is what my hair is like at 18 I can only imagine that Ill be almost completely bold by like 21 or 22. Which freaks me out cause if this was happening even as early as my thirties I think I would handle it better but 20 is so damn young. I'll still be in college and don't really think its an environment where there are many bald people. I just dont know how I would be able to go outside if I had no hair at such a young age.

Another thing that depresses me so much is that I think I had the odds on my side in this battle. I mean my maternal grandfather still has almost all of his hair at age 73 and my father, age 50-something, has just started showing a bit of hair loss. Granted, I know nothing about my paternal grandfather, but still, I feel the odds were on my side.

One more thing, as I understand it, male pattern baldness is caused by high levels of testosterone. Well, I dont think I am particularly surging with huge levels of testosterone which makes me wonder even more why I am going through this at such a young age. I guess my genes are so messed up that any amount of testosterone is enough to kill all of my hair?

What I've been thinking about a lot about is stem cell-related treatments. Does anyone know anything about such things? Am I grasping at straws here? I dont know, I heard a couple of things about them but I couldn't find any related clinics in Canada. Are there any in the States? In Europe? In Asia? I would be willing to travel if it was a viable option. Basically, does anyone know anything about such things?

Another reason I am very worried about my hair loss is because I don't think I have a very bald-friendly head. Its kind of big and I have a fairly large forehead. Also, when I was very young a suffered an injury that left me with a small bump on the side of my head. Its not at all noticeable at the moment but if I were to go completely bald, holly crap, I dont know what I would do. In fact, I would say my "not very bald-friendly head" is the most troubling aspect of hair loss for me.

Yesterday I kind of thought up of a possible course of action I could take. I was thinking that while I am in college I could wear a hat everywhere and after, when I start working somewhere full time, I could either start wearing hair pieces or go for some sort of procedure like a hair transplant or something stem cell related. I dont know... I guess this is one way to go. Maybe? I dont know. I think I am certainly going to start using Rogaine but my hopes are very slim because here in Canada only the 2% stuff is legal and apparently it has a low success rate but whatever(?)

So ya. Anyone and everyone please comment, ask questions if you have any, make suggestions, whatever else. Writing this long rant felt kind of good so, at the very least, thank you for that HairLossTalk.com.

 

[SimpsonKnight]

Well, after an evening of research and contemplation I've decided that I probably will go on Propecia very soon. Will certainly track my progress here.

 

[dinosaur_sr]

I don't understand your point though. That my situation could be worse? That at least I am not paralyzed and blind? Well that could be said about everyone on this site and the vast majority of the world. That doesn't make my or anyone elses problems smaller.

Fantastic comeback.

Sorry to hear about your medical condition, good luck with it, whatever it is. If it turns out you can get on finasteride, that will probably be your best bet to keep your hair. As far as I can tell, the side effects are very overstated and mostly fear-mongering, but take a doctor's opinion over mine.

Also, it's very rare that people lose all their hair by 21. Even if you were aggressively balding, which it doesn't look like you are, I'd put it at mid to late 20s. And going on those pictures, your hair is a bit better than mine was at 19, and the only change mine has experienced since turning 22 is some thinning, only noticeable to me. On a good day even I think I am imagining it! Point is, it'll be ages before it becomes noticeable to most people, as they don't have hairline blinkers on like balding men do.

Know what you mean about your family - my family also have really good hair genes all around, other than me apparently :whistle: It's actually one of the main factors in why I want to keep my hair, and one of the things that gets me down the most about losing it. And your age, naturally, losing hair young sucks. Don't worry about it too much though, the effects balding has on your looks are often overstated, and there's a good chance you can halt it.

 

[SimpsonKnight]

Hello again readers. So tomorrow I am officially going to start Propecia. I have a question first though. I remember reading somewhere that you can take something while taking Propecia to prevent your unspecialized testosterone from transforming into estrogen (since it can't change into that form of testosterone that causes hair loss) and instead forces it to transform into some other molecule that apparently helps you gain muscles mass. Anyone know what I am talking about? I heard about this on this site in fact. Apparently taking some sort of grape extract can help with this? I don't know, just something I wanna learn a bit about I guess.

 

[TheGrayMan2001]

Hello again readers. So tomorrow I am officially going to start Propecia. I have a question first though. I remember reading somewhere that you can take something while taking Propecia to prevent your unspecialized testosterone from transforming into estrogen (since it can't change into that form of testosterone that causes hair loss) and instead forces it to transform into some other molecule that apparently helps you gain muscles mass. Anyone know what I am talking about? I heard about this on this site in fact. Apparently taking some sort of grape extract can help with this? I don't know, just something I wanna learn a bit about I guess.

chances are you won't need it. I would try propecia with out it.

 

[SimpsonKnight]

So you do know what I am talking about? Isn't it a good idea though? I would imagine that taking such a medication along with Propecia would possibly help alleviate some of the side effects. Maybe.

 

[SimpsonKnight]

Just got back from the Pharmacy. Have a months worth of Propecia sitting in my medicine cabinet. The price was actually a little bit less than I expected. Only $55. I don't know, for some reason I am pretty anxious about taking it. Just gotta try and not think about it I guess. Anyways, November 28th of 2011 - first day of my treatment. We'll see how it goes I suppose.

Edit: So I was just doing some more research and stuff like that and I went on Propecia's official website. On it I noticed that they talk about how Propecia is only used to treat hair loss in the crown and mid-scalp region. Most of my hair loss has been occurring in the hair line. Does this mean that maybe I won't see any results with Propecia? I just wanna make sure I am doing the right think before taking such a drastic step.

 

[SimpsonKnight]

Hi again HairLossTalk.com, just thought I'd post an update. So its been roughly a month since I started Propecia and I have to say, its really not for me. At first it was fine, no noticeable side effects. Maybe a week and a half into it I started experiencing some minor ball pain but once again it was not a big deal. If that was the price I had to pay for having a full head of hair then so be it I thought. Unfortunately that was not where it ended. For the past two weeks or so I started noticing a decline in sex drive. The thing is, and I am sure most people would agree, there must be some sort of psychological aspect to this so I decided to put myself to the test. I was lucky enough to find a willing sexual partner and we decided to have a go at it. Lets just say things did not go the way they were supposed to. First of all it took me some time to get aroused. Then, as if that wasn't enough, after I got aroused the actual act of intercourse went on far longer than it should have. And not in a good way. Lets just say the girl had to work very hard to get me to the end and it wasn't even that enjoyable. Then came the worst part. When I finally managed to orgasm, which really wasn't that great of an orgasm anyways, there was suddenly a lot of pain in the penile-nether regiony area. It was a strange pain as if some needles were being pulled out or something. And then a bit of blood started coming out of places it should never have come out of. It was not fun and I haven't talked to the girl since. It was kind of awkward to say the least. And here is the kicker. I have only been taking a 1mg tablet of Propecia every second day for less than a month.

Anyways, I think thats the end of my relationship with Propecia. Ill probably start looking into some sort of topical treatments. Hopefully there is something worthwhile there cause clearly Propecia is not the thing for me.