Soy Isoflavones and Green tea TOGETHER severely reduce DHT

[dpdr]

Soybeans (Non GMO) is not bad

 

[Belmondo]

Natural stuff just does not work. [...]

The voice of reason.

I still remember the time I tried the 'natural' solution: washing my hair with tea, taking supplements everyday, etc. Total waste of time, energy and money.

 

[wstef]

I drink green tea all the time. I have done for years (even before my hair started to fall out). I also have soya protein (since whey makes me way too gassy) and drink soya milk (I don't like dairy... pretty much have 0% dairy in my diet). These weren't in any way relation to preventing my hair falling out... they were just part of my every day life.

I don't know if this has slowed my hair loss down because I have been losing it very slowly for the past 10 or so years, but I don't know if that was how it was going to go anyway.

However, after recently starting Propecia and Regaine I have already noticed little hairs cropping up, which I never when I tried saw palmetto for a year.

I haven't seen any results - anywhere? - from people who claim that natural stuff stopped or even reversed their hair loss. I was kidding myself when I thought saw palmetto would work for me. I was just too scared to take the leap to finasteride because t'internet scared me... but I was getting fed up and just did it. Hopefully I won't regret it (please willy, don't die on me!)

But... I do think diet plays some role in our hair loss; from the point of diet in childhood.

 

[qerqrqwrqwr]

I have tried this option , along with the big 3.

soy isoflavones made me nauseous,

and the green tea is rather useless by itself.


I can send the bottles to someone if they want

- - - Updated - - -

Natural stuff just does not work. You can waste your time all you want. There are way too many factors involved. I mean exercise alone can change your hormones and differently based on your genetics. I tried the natural route and i did Mega dosing and gave it a good year and a half before I gave up and went the propecia route and man does it ever work

Here are the compounds that did nothing:

Saw Palmetto
Nettle Root
Beta Sitosterol (compound in saw palmetto believed to be the DHT blocker)
L-Arginine
L-glutamine
Green Tea Extracts
Soy Isoflavones
Biotin
MSM
Evening Primrose Oil (Believed to promote anti-inflammatory prostaglandins)
Cayenne Pepper

I took way larger doses then typically shown as studies that were in-vitro (you know don't tell us much about humans) showed that doses would have to be large. I just wanted to be the guinea pig and was willing because I knew that natural stuff is pretty much useless and i proved it so.

Soy will not turn you into a woman. It's a phytoestrogen. It is a partial agonist of estrogen receptors. That means it binds to these receptors but has a weaker impact. This stops actual estrogen from binding to it and initiating a stronger impact. This may also show that estradiol levels go up in the blood. I doubt it's powerful enough to bind to enough receptors even in large doses.

Natural stuff will not cure a problem. It will keep you healthy as your body will be getting nutrients and using them appropriately and discarding what it does not need. But it will not make drastic changes to your chemistry, this is what drugs do. This is why drugs are prescribed because they can definitely make a big impact as they are designed for the purposes of targeting specific receptors.

Anyways, I'm trying to save you wasted money and time. The supplement industry is a multi-billion dollar industry. It's full of Quackery. They claim to solve every problem and create diseases that don't exist. There is no such thing as Adrenal Fatigue for example. Yet you will find websites everywhere regarding it. There's the more life threatening Adrenal Insufficiency. But if you have this trust me you will go to a doctor. And the whole Gluten free fads? Only people with Celiac disease cannot tolerate gluten, that is a very small portion of the population. And not to mention bowel cleansing? Your body is designed to dispose waste appropriately and the colon does not leak toxins into your blood as these people believe. God I've read it on the net hehe.

Anyways, natural stuff will not work for you. You can prove me wrong with some photoshopped poor quality webcam pics. (Yes some guy on the net called WidowsPeak did that).

When taken along with the big 3. they work.

but they must be taken in synergy or they don't work.

for example saw palmetto by itself is useless. but combine it with astaxanthin, and it creates a good effect.
I agree biotin and msm are useless anyway.

 

[abcdefg]

Eh I think saw palmetto at the right dose and absorbed properly like liquid verses powder might have some effect on male pattern baldness if taken in large doses like 320mg * 10 per day or something like that. The normal 320 isnt enough to do much of anything IMO you need some concentrated huge dose of it to get any possible result. Again though why bother when finasteride has 10 year studies and has been in use for 20 years. Internal drugs dont get much safer so it basically does the same thing except it works but has potential for sides because its more potent

 

[qerqrqwrqwr]

Eh I think saw palmetto at the right dose and absorbed properly like liquid verses powder might have some effect on male pattern baldness if taken in large doses like 320mg * 10 per day or something like that. The normal 320 isnt enough to do much of anything IMO you need some concentrated huge dose of it to get any possible result. Again though why bother when finasteride has 10 year studies and has been in use for 20 years. Internal drugs dont get much safer so it basically does the same thing except it works but has potential for sides because its more potent

Maybe.

A new study showed it is far more effective when taken with astaxanthin.

But astaxanthin and saw palmetto do very little/nothing when taken by themselves

 

[drgs]

Soy mimics estrogen, can have something to do with it

 

[qerqrqwrqwr]

That's the true voice of reason. Realistic yet not completely dismissive of it. THUMBS UP!
Astaxanthin (it's an orange micro algae, for those that don't know - it's what gives salmon it's orange colour. Atlantic salmon is a very good source of it, cook a delicious fish and battle hair loss at the same time. Fighting hair loss through diet is more effective than we thought.)

I'm sure your hair is going well. Most just look at proven treatments and don't dig any further. Seriously... hair loss is really, really hard to fight, why do so few share our motivation?

it's simple

there are more than 3 products in the world that help with hair loss.

that doesn't mean take 150 supplements a day like this guy
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2467514/Ray-Kurzweil-shares-plans-immortality.html

but take more than 3 things at least

 

[RK85]

However, Green tea ALONE led to a 164% INCREASE in DHT levels in mice. That doesn't sound so appealing does it. Maybe its because a percentage of the receptors were inhibited with green tea usage, thus less dht could bind, making it flow around in serum. Green tea given to mice increase hair growth in them in 33% of subjects in one study I read on pub med. Its complicated how these things might work, and sometimes work ---together--- to produce an effect. Green tea and soy TOGETHER certainly did do a number on mouse DHT levels though.

How is it possible that the green tea alone given to a mice increased the hair growth if it led to a 164% increase in DTH levels at the same time?

 

[rcom440]

Just to clarify green tea increases DHL while black tea decreases it.

To be honest this whole study nice with green tea and soy seems pretty sketchy.

 

[qerqrqwrqwr]

How is it possible that the green tea alone given to a mice increased the hair growth if it led to a 164% increase in DTH levels at the same time?

green tea by itself = dht increase

green tea/ soy combo - dht decrease


things work together in synergy, and create different effects

 

[RK85]

So which option will be better against the hair loss?

1. Green tea alone
2. Green tea with the soy isoflavones

PS qerqrqwrqwr what do you mean by "soy combo"? Soy isoflavones or something else?

 

[qerqrqwrqwr]

So which option will be better against the hair loss?

1. Green tea alone
2. Green tea with the soy isoflavones

PS qerqrqwrqwr what do you mean by "soy combo"? Soy isoflavones or something else?

I meant a combo of green tea/ soy isoflavones.


Green tea with soy would be better.


However, better may just be theflavins black tea extract.

Or

Astaxanthin/ Saw palmetto

http://www.hairloss-research.org/UpdateBeyondSawPalmettoNaturalPropeciaAlternative2014.html

 

[benjt]

green tea by itself = dht increase

green tea/ soy combo - dht decrease

Do you have any source to back this statement up?

 

[uncomfortable man]

Benefits are negligible.

 

[qerqrqwrqwr]

Do you have any source to back this statement up?

just google dht green tea

that is the best so called evidence I can gather

secondly, hair loss research has never reccomended green tea by itself, which should be considered

 

[benjt]

Wrong, which is why I asked for source. Green tea by itself is long known in the context of hair loss prevention, as it increases SHBG levels. Increased SHBG levels lead to less unbound T in your body, and thus to decreased DHT levels. The problem is that the SHBG increase from drinking green tea is not even remotely enough to halt hair loss, but green tea may be a component of your regimen to further slow it down. Little effect is better than no effect.

Soy isoflavones, due to their phytoestrogen components, also have an effect of their own. High intake has indeed been linked to fertility problems (as a result of T and DHT decrease), as is to be expected when consuming high amounts of phytoestrogens. In fact, a soy based diet can significantly slow down hair loss (again to be expected if soy isoflavone effects are strong enough to even cause fertility problems).

The main point, however, is: Your statement that green tea only works in conjunction with soy isoflavones (or vice versa) is wrong. Please validate your statements before you make them, or provide source. You are making a lot of oversimplified statements which are simply not true.

 

[qerqrqwrqwr]

Wrong, which is why I asked for source. Green tea by itself is long known in the context of hair loss prevention, as it increases SHBG levels. Increased SHBG levels lead to less unbound T in your body, and thus to decreased DHT levels. The problem is that the SHBG increase from drinking green tea is not even remotely enough to halt hair loss, but green tea may be a component of your regimen to further slow it down. Little effect is better than no effect.

Soy isoflavones, due to their phytoestrogen components, also have an effect of their own. High intake has indeed been linked to fertility problems (as a result of T and DHT decrease), as is to be expected when consuming high amounts of phytoestrogens. In fact, a soy based diet can significantly slow down hair loss (again to be expected if soy isoflavone effects are strong enough to even cause fertility problems).

The main point, however, is: Your statement that green tea only works in conjunction with soy isoflavones (or vice versa) is wrong. Please validate your statements before you make them, or provide source. You are making a lot of oversimplified statements which are simply not true.

this website must be taken with a pinch of salt though

http://www.hairloss-research.org/UpdateBeyondSawPalmettoNaturalPropeciaAlternative2014.html

 

[benjt]

You should really start to read more carefully. This website is in contradiction to your prior statements, as it states that both green tea and soy isoflavones have an effect of their own. And the great "synergetic" effect is not so great anymore when you have a look at the actual numbers: Soy-based diet, according to this website (which is not very well researched) can lower serum DHT already by 60%. The "synergetic therapy" adding green tea leads to an 80% reduction, so additional 20% - which goes in accordance with what I said earlier about smaller effects of green tea by itself. On green tea itself, the website states: "both Theaflavins and Green Tea Extract also provide additional anti-inflammation effects that are beneficial for hair". However, the website completely leaves out the effects of SHBG.

At any rate, please get a deeper understanding of the matter or learn to read more carefully before you make oversimplified statements.

 

[qerqrqwrqwr]

I doubt green tea would do anything for hair loss anyway

However topically , there is some interesting research