Spironolactone stronger than RU58841? (77 nM vs. 100nM)

JaneyElizabeth

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Are those molecular weights? Half lives? Yeah, that makes more sense.

Given spironolactone's strength and RU's lack of results, I would state that spironolactone is stronger than RU in a hair loss context and more likely both to halt hair loss but even maybe regrow a little bit of hair. One of these is verified to work in terms of feminization. The other is a topical or generally used as a topical.

Anyway, spironolactone sucks too. And if you are asking about spironolactone as a topical, well, many people don't think that it works at all that way as it needs a liver pass before becoming prime.
 
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AndrewBarnes

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Are those molecular weights?

Given spironolactone's strength and RU's lack of results, I would state that spironolactone is stronger than RU in a hair loss context and more likely both to halt hair loss but even maybe regrow a little bit of hair. One of these is verified to work in terms of feminization. The other is a topical or generally used as a topical.

Anyway, spironolactone sucks too.
Molecular Weights:
Spironolactone: 416.574 g/mol
RU: 369.34 g/mol

RU has given me amazing results when I dosed it up to 500mg a day. I was researching other AA's today and noticed that the IC50 of spironolactone is lower than RU, which means it's a stronger AR antagonist than RU. spironolactone also has a very short half life of around an hour and it doesn't go systemic topically according to this study. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/3411088/
The study found that participants did not have any indication of the spironolactone going systemic even after applying 5% sprio to 55% of their body.
My only hesitation of using spironolactone topically is its lack of results but I feel like the people using topical spironolactone weren't using it in a high enough dosage.
 

JaneyElizabeth

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Molecular Weights:
Spironolactone: 416.574 g/mol
RU: 369.34 g/mol

RU has given me amazing results when I dosed it up to 500mg a day. I was researching other AA's today and noticed that the IC50 of spironolactone is lower than RU, which means it's a stronger AR antagonist than RU. spironolactone also has a very short half life of around an hour and it doesn't go systemic topically according to this study. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/3411088/
The study found that participants did not have any indication of the spironolactone going systemic even after applying 5% sprio to 55% of their body.
My only hesitation of using spironolactone is the reported lack of results but I feel like the people using topical spironolactone weren't using it in a high enough dosage.
I am all in favor of reasonable experimentation as long the person knows what they are doing. The worst thing about spironolactone is the sort of icky feeling that it gives you; well, not only that. It has a lot of short-term sides that might never go away but titration could make a difference. I was taking 200 mg which is generally the maximum dose and yes, I had a shed to baldness and I just posted three pics today of my "spironolactone shed".

From my point of view, I would avoid AA's because spironolactone sucked so bad similar to my trying Zoloft and never wanting to touch an SSRI again.
 

AndrewBarnes

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I am all in favor of reasonable experimentation as long the person knows what they are doing. The worst thing about spironolactone is the sort of icky feeling that it gives you; well, not only that. It has a lot of short-term sides that might never go away but titration could make a difference. I was taking 200 mg which is generally the maximum dose and yes, I had a shed to baldness and I just posted three pics today of my "spironolactone shed".

From my point of view, I would avoid AA's because spironolactone sucked so bad similar to my trying Zoloft and never wanting to touch an SSRI again.
AA's don't make me shed but I would love to know my results from 200mg topical spironolactone. Were you taking 200mg orally or topically? My best bet is to crush spironolactone pills and mix them with alcohol and PG or I could find a vendor online that will sell me spironolactone powder.
 

JaneyElizabeth

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Not to mention that spironolactone is feminizing orally and unlikely to work topically. Is RU feminizing topically ever? I think that it is systemically.
 

AndrewBarnes

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Not to mention that spironolactone is feminizing orally and unlikely to work topically. Is RU feminizing topically ever? I think that it is systemically.
RU from 500mg definitely made my gyno flare up so yes it does go systemic and cause feminizing
 

JaneyElizabeth

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AA's don't make me shed but I would love to know my results from 200mg topical spironolactone. Were you taking 200mg orally or topically? My best bet is to crush spironolactone pills and mix them with alcohol and PG or I could find a vendor online that will sell me spironolactone powder.
I was taking them orally and I was pretty bad about taking two on many days since "it could only help, right?" Learned my lesson there about titration and exceeding dosages.
 

JaneyElizabeth

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But you aren't trans, just willing to sneak up to the line as close as you can get without feminization? Cause I like that. Stealing a line from the Karate Kid....
 

AndrewBarnes

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But you aren't trans, just willing to sneak up to the line as close as you can get without feminization? Cause I like that.
Yes, exactly. My goal is to use 250mg of RU and another AA because I can't tolerate more than 250mg of RU a day. I'm assuming you meant you took the spironolactone orally and were pretty bad at taking two "pills". If topically, what did you mean by taking two?
 

JaneyElizabeth

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Yes, exactly. My goal is to use 250mg of RU and another AA because I can't tolerate more than 250mg of RU a day. I'm assuming you meant you took the spironolactone orally and were pretty bad at taking two "pills". If topically, what did you mean by taking two?
I corrected it. You are right orally.
 

JaneyElizabeth

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Now this is interesting. You have one semi-HRT med depending upon use and we need to identify another med that might go best with it in terms of synergy but not estrogen or any of the big 3 AA's orally? Hmm. Let me think, lol.
 

JaneyElizabeth

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I corrected it. You are right orally.
People usually tout what they like best and I would put medroxyprogesterone acetate at the top of the list if we are not talking oral minoxidil. I have had no sides that I can tell from MPA or provera (brand name). If you are going to do this scientifically, you probably should test if possible. My current quest is to try to verify the effects of middling amounts of T and E2 on hair improvement.
 

AndrewBarnes

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People usually tout what they like best and I would put medroxyprogesterone acetate at the top of the list if we are not talking oral minoxidil. I have had no sides that I can tell from MPA or provera (brand name).
When you say the big 3 AA's you're referring to Cyp Acetate, Bicalutamide, and spironolactone? The problem with the first 2 is that they're weak and have an incredibly long half life. With spironolactone, it's still pretty weak but I feel like it's half life is what makes it stand out from the rest. There are stronger AA than RU but their half life makes them unusable. Oh-flutamide is as strong as RU but it's half life is 10x longer. I preferably want something that has a short half life even though it might be a weak AA. CB is the perfect solution except for the fact that I'm not a billionaire. I would probably need at least 200mg+ of CB a day and that would cost around 4k a year. Screw that.
 

JaneyElizabeth

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When you say the big 3 AA's you're referring to Cyp Acetate, Bicalutamide, and spironolactone? The problem with the first 2 is that they're weak and have an incredibly long half life. With spironolactone, it's still pretty weak but I feel like it's half life is what makes it stand out from the rest. There are stronger AA than RU but their half life makes them unusable. Oh-flutamide is as strong as RU but it's half life is 10x longer. I preferably want something that has a short half life even though it might be a weak AA. CB is the perfect solution except for the fact that I'm not a billionaire. I would probably need at least 200mg+ of CB a day and that would cost around 4k a year. Screw that.
Let me look up the half-life on MPA. I keep meaning to anyway.
 

JaneyElizabeth

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Now when you say AA, you understand that the reason why I separate CPA, spironolactone and bica from provera and dutasteride is because the "big 3" AA's all impact upon E2 and T indirectly and at least spironolactone, to me, had sort of a jarring quality that MPA and progesterone and estrogen lack. Until you feel it, it's hard to describe.
 

real kombo

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People usually tout what they like best and I would put medroxyprogesterone acetate at the top of the list if we are not talking oral minoxidil. I have had no sides that I can tell from MPA or provera (brand name). If you are going to do this scientifically, you probably should test if possible. My current quest is to try to verify the effects of middling amounts of T and E2 on hair improvement.
Is Oral minoxidil truly better than topical if you take just 5mg daily?
 

JaneyElizabeth

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Is Oral minoxidil truly better than topical if you take just 5mg daily?
Well, that depends upon the person and how much sulfurtransferase they produce in the scalp. Apparently, up to 40 percent of us lack enough of this enzyme to get the full growth effects of minoxidil. Another thing that can be tried is topical sulfurtransferase or derma-rolling which also elevates sulfurtransferase.
 

real kombo

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Well, that depends upon the person and how much sulfurtransferase they produce in the scalp. Apparently, up to 40 percent of us lack enough of this enzyme to get the full growth effects of minoxidil. Another thing that can be tried is topical sulfurtransferase or derma-rolling which also elevates sulfurtransferase.
I ordered a dermaroller which should be coming soon. I've been on finasteride for 7 years with zero sexual sides (i just pee alot more now) and I think it's beginning to lose some effectiveness, I've been on and off with topical minoxidil these years, doing everything from compounded 10% to the 5% over the counter now (couldnt stick with compound solution as the propylene glycol irritated my scalp. I'm looking for alternatives should I not see any improvement the next few months. Do you think a cis male taking 100-150 mg of oral spironolactone is too much? I know people panic about it but people on here also panic about finasteride and I've had zero trouble with it all this time. I also have oily skin and I think the spironolactone can help...
 
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