Testosterone Replacement Therapy ,propecia, Dht Levels And Sideeffects

[Heinrich Harrer]

instead of taking finasteride or testosterone. Have you heard of Nandrolone decanoate?

basically its an anobolic steriod stronger than T but gets deactivated by 5ar. So, its more antiandrogenic in skin, hair, etc.

" The low androgenicity of nandrolone decanoate is thought to be due to the fact that whereas many other AAS like testosterone are potentiated via transformation by 5α-reductase into more potent AR agonists like DHT in specific tissues including the skin, hair follicles, prostate gland, liver, and brain, nandrolone is instead inactivated by 5α-reductase via transformation into the low-affinity AR ligand 5α-dihydronandrolone in such tissues.[4][2][11]This is thought to result in a much lower incidence and magnitude of facial/body hair growth, scalp hair loss, and possibly prostate issues like prostate enlargement and prostate cancer with nandrolone esters relative to testosterone.[4][24][25] "

I don't know much else about though but maybe something to look into?

Great way to lose hair AND grow tits at the same time.

 

[bridgeburn]

Great way to lose hair AND grow tits at the same time.

actually it has less estrogenic potency than taking TRT

 

[Heinrich Harrer]

actually it has less estrogenic potency than taking TRT

Nandrolones bind to the progestin receptor, they shut down your axis and they produce DHN instead of DHT, which is a much less powerful hormone. You get limp dick, tits and hairloss. I don’t want to sound like a dick but you if play around with hormones based on random ncbi articles you’re gonna have a bad day.

 

[bridgeburn]

Nandrolones bind to the progestin receptor, they shut down your axis and they produce DHN instead of DHT, which is a much less powerful hormone.

testosterone also causes negative feedback on HPG axis.

they produce DHN instead of DHT, which is a much less powerful hormone.

exactly, and 5ar is produced by our hair follicles.. so shouldn't replacing T with nandrolone cause less hairloss compared to being on T?

You get limp dick, tits and hairloss.

I have no testosterone and my dick still works.

I don’t want to sound like a dick but you if play around with hormones based on random ncbi articles you’re gonna have a bad day.

I absolutely don't regret playing around with hormones

 

[Heinrich Harrer]

testosterone also causes negative feedback on HPG axis.


exactly, and 5ar is produced by our hair follicles.. so shouldn't replacing T with nandrolone cause less hairloss compared to being on T?


I have no testosterone and my dick still works.



I absolutely don't regret playing around with hormones

Nandrolones cause hair loss. DHN doesn’t mean you will halt it. Binding to the progestin receptor means tits. They also have an effect on brain, GABBA receptors and memory. Unfortunately, this scenario is never going to work. Nandrolones Havel also been tried as a TRT protocol by roidheads who think they were smart and it failed miserably. Needless to say lipid profiles and cholesterol are not gonna be happy one bit if you decide to go down that road.

If you’re penis works fine on a castration protocol then you are obviously a lizard, along with the Bush family and other Illuminati. Go take some blood tests and then we can talk further.

 

[michel sapin]

Then explain why users like @nickypoos were able to remove almost all the DHT in their body using dutasteride and still look like an absolute beast?

I suspect that he was " juicing " . His last pics looks reallly suspicious

 

[AnxiousAndy]

I suspect that he was " juicing " . His last pics looks reallly suspicious

What makes you say that? Hard work can do the same thing.

 

[bridgeburn]

Nandrolones cause hair loss.

androgens cause hairloss. so yeah this could cause hairloss to, however this one gets deactivated locally. seems like it would be comparatively less risky (for hair).

Binding to the progestin receptor means tits.

not without significant estrogen levels.

If you’re penis works fine on a castration protocol then you are obviously a lizard, along with the Bush family and other Illuminati.

yep, you caught me

 

[Heinrich Harrer]

It’s very suspicious that for someone who has had such “success” and “feels fine” you won’t take blood tests. I think you’re bullshitting us and I think it’s dangerous because a few more are naive enough to follow your regimen, convinced that they will also be “fine”.

androgens cause hairloss. so yeah this could cause hairloss to, however this one gets deactivated locally. seems like it would be comparatively less risky (for hair).


not without significant estrogen levels.


yep, you caught me

 

[pikemason]

Testosterone does cause a negative feedback loop, some leading "HRT doctors" in the industry are suggesting to back fill all the pathways. example Hcg for LH and FSH, adding DHEA. They report their patients feel much better. I have an appointment with my hormone doctor at the end of the month, I will ask him questions on this forum and post back.

testosterone also causes negative feedback on HPG axis.

Testosterone does cause a negative feedback loop, some leading "HRT doctors" in the industry are suggesting to back fill all the pathways. example Hcg for LH and FSH, adding DHEA. They report their patients feel much better. I have an appointment with my hormone doctor at the end of the month, I will ask him questions on this forum and post back.

exactly, and 5ar is produced by our hair follicles.. so shouldn't replacing T with nandrolone cause less hairloss compared to being on T?


I have no testosterone and my dick still works.



I absolutely don't regret playing around with hormones

 

[pikemason]

View attachment 95387

It’s very suspicious that for someone who has had such “success” and “feels fine” you won’t take blood tests. I think you’re bullshitting us and I think it’s dangerous because a few more are naive enough to follow your regimen, convinced that they will also be “fine”.

View attachment 95387

It’s very suspicious that for someone who has had such “success” and “feels fine” you won’t take blood tests. I think you’re bullshitting us and I think it’s dangerous because a few more are naive enough to follow your regimen, convinced that they will also be “fine”.

I can post my bloodwork if you want data, I tried to exchange information on the body building forums but unfortunately there completely against propecia.

 

[pikemason]

I have a hour consult with my HRT doctor on the 28th and it's not cheap so I plan to use the whole time. If you guys have any questions you want me to ask him let me know.

 

[bridgeburn]

I think you’re bullshitting us and I think it’s dangerous because a few more are naive enough to follow your regimen, convinced that they will also be “fine”.

these things certainly don't come without risks. that's not what I'm promoting.

some leading "HRT doctors" in the industry are suggesting to back fill all the pathways. example Hcg for LH and FSH, adding DHEA.

wait, are you saying Hcg and dhea increases LH and FSH?

 

[pikemason]

these things certainly don't come without risks. that's not what I'm promoting.

wait, are you saying Hcg and dhea increases LH and FSH?

Hcg increase LH and FSH
Dhea increase natural production of testosterone

just to clarify I'm not promoting the use of testosterone. I have a condition called secondary hypogonadism and hypothyroidism. My body does not produce enough testosterone on its own. I do feel amazing compared to what I felt like before.

My testosterone level went from 235 to 978 after 3 months of therapy.

 

[bluecyclone]

@pikemason how did the consult go? Similar boat, hypothyroidic, led to lower T at the same time had age related thinning kick in. I just started on Androgel and I am considering topical or low dose oral Finasteride. Was HCG hard to get my urologist would not give me an Rx while on TRT.

 

[Retinoid]

I have a feeling hair loss, especially in younger men, is caused by too low of testosterone and NOT too high. Mainly secondary hypogonadism where the brain is not telling the testicles to produce more T even though the body is severely lacking. I think the body, in response to low androgens, increases localized conversion of T to the more potent DHT which causes problems in those tissues (such as hair loss). The optimal treatment would be something like low dose Clomid and testosterone supports.

Chemically castrating oneself is essentially the opposite of what your body needs but is strong enough to overpower the localized increase in androgens. Taking exogenous testosterone is also not great when your testicles are already working. Finasteride is the least harmful however still causes people to be testosterone deficient when they have low T and actually compounds the problem of low T over the long term (decreases FSH/LH).

 

[Heinrich Harrer]

I have a feeling hair loss, especially in younger men, is caused by too low of testosterone and NOT too high. Mainly secondary hypogonadism where the brain is not telling the testicles to produce more T even though the body is severely lacking. I think the body, in response to low androgens, increases localized conversion of T to the more potent DHT which causes problems in those tissues (such as hair loss). The optimal treatment would be something like low dose Clomid and testosterone supports.

Chemically castrating oneself is essentially the opposite of what your body needs but is strong enough to overpower the localized increase in androgens. Taking exogenous testosterone is also not great when your testicles are already working. Finasteride is the least harmful however still causes people to be testosterone deficient when they have low T and actually compounds the problem of low T over the long term (decreases FSH/LH).

So true... I’ve had this theory in my head too. Which is why people with low T don’t stand a chance with finasteride. Also hypothyroidism decreases T. I’m against clomid tho, any AI tbh. They have severe alterations and hormone suppressions so long term use is insane, unless ofc you are supplementing more exogenous hormones. For example tamoxifen will tank your gh. I’ve also never heard of anyone having accelerated hair loss when on trt. Steroids is another subject as they are not the same and they are all given in supraphysiologic dosages.

 

[Retinoid]

So true... I’ve had this theory in my head too. Which is why people with low T don’t stand a chance with finasteride. Also hypothyroidism decreases T. I’m against clomid tho, any AI tbh. They have severe alterations and hormone suppressions so long term use is insane, unless ofc you are supplementing more exogenous hormones. For example tamoxifen will tank your gh. I’ve also never heard of anyone having accelerated hair loss when on trt. Steroids is another subject as they are not the same and they are all given in supraphysiologic dosages.

Clomid is not technically an AI it is a SERM and in low doses (like 25mg EOD) it is pretty safe and very valuable. Clomid mainly blocks the feedback mechanism for the brain to decrease LH/FSH--this feedback mechanism malfunction is the cause of secondary hypogonadism which is the PRIMARY syndrome for young men.

TRT actually will increase Testosterone, DHT and Estrogen while Clomid usually increases Testosterone and Estrogen but decreases DHT. Higher dosages of Clomid are not advisable as it will increase your Estrogen out of proportion.

I think Finasteride works better when you have good levels of Testosterone and Estrogen--when these two hormones are healthy then younger men are less susceptible to hair loss. When these hormones are low or out of whack then your body seems to go through compensatory measures to fix it leading to the hair loss issue. Finasteride still works to prevent this compensatory measure or reduce it however you are then left with a horrible hormone profile. It is not necessarily caused by Finasteride, Finasteride just compounds the issue already there.

Any male with hair loss and low testosterone should look to fix this issue. It would be interesting to see if this alone would fix hair loss.

 

[pikemason]

@pikemason how did the consult go? Similar boat, hypothyroidic, led to lower T at the same time had age related thinning kick in. I just started on Androgel and I am considering topical or low dose oral Finasteride. Was HCG hard to get my urologist would not give me an Rx while on TRT.

We had a good discussion, he has about 10k patients in his practice so he seen a lot of bloodwork. He stated that finasteride taken with TRT resulted in much less negative adverse side effects vs taking finasteride alone in his patients. He feels strongly tho patients should try a topical version of propecia first. Only doctors that have experience with Hcg and Trt protocols are going to prescribe it to you. I see Dr. Saya from Defy medical. My Dht levels are already low at 30 so he suggested that I do not take propecia.

In my opinion there is a low t epidemic in men that is unrecognized in modern medicine which make taking finasteride high risk. Over generations men's testosterone levels have been declining considerably. What is considered normal "range" today is actually low t. The reason behind this may be due to the following: A wide range of medications that are being handed out by doctors that effect the H P axis. The sedentary lifestyle we live and the obesity epidemic, Chemicals in our food , all this results in our endocrine system being under attack. Unfortunately GP doctors have not been trained in hormones in general so if you go to them feeling, depressed with Ed issues there more likely to give you a SSRI and v**** vs getting to the root cause.

I feel finasteride can be safe but no doctor should prescribe Finasteride unless the person takes a full panel of blood work of there hormone profile.

Does this make sense?

 

[pikemason]

Clomid is not technically an AI it is a SERM and in low doses (like 25mg EOD) it is pretty safe and very valuable. Clomid mainly blocks the feedback mechanism for the brain to decrease LH/FSH--this feedback mechanism malfunction is the cause of secondary hypogonadism which is the PRIMARY syndrome for young men.

TRT actually will increase Testosterone, DHT and Estrogen while Clomid usually increases Testosterone and Estrogen but decreases DHT. Higher dosages of Clomid are not advisable as it will increase your Estrogen out of proportion.

I think Finasteride works better when you have good levels of Testosterone and Estrogen--when these two hormones are healthy then younger men are less susceptible to hair loss. When these hormones are low or out of whack then your body seems to go through compensatory measures to fix it leading to the hair loss issue. Finasteride still works to prevent this compensatory measure or reduce it however you are then left with a horrible hormone profile. It is not necessarily caused by Finasteride, Finasteride just compounds the issue already there.

Any male with hair loss and low testosterone should look to fix this issue. It would be interesting to see if this alone would fix hair loss.

My hair did improve after being on TRT therapy. I had a uptake in Estrogen which resulted in fuller thicker hair. So in my experience I would agree. The hair I lossed did not come back but my doctor suggested it was due to my thyroid issue not DHT.