The hype around PGD2 in male pattern baldness.

[Fena2000]

Interesting Fena.

Who here is willing to peel off a few layers of skin on their head though? lol

What else could be done to test this?

Of course not! I don't know yet what else can be done, I'm not a scientist, wish I was. Maybe somebody else can come up with an answer to that question.
All I know is that it just makes sense, sensitive androgen receptors is just part of the puzzle.

Going back to my plant story. Now let's say you install a watering system (cappilaries in skin) to water your plants and you start watering them daily , they will grow nicely. BUT if there are big holes in the little hose of the water system, more water will leak in the soil. So you start overwatering them and they will slowly die or die fast, depending on how much water the plant receives. Now, if it would be really hot outside , water would evaporate (lymphvessels) faster and it would be less damaging.
Ok enough talk about plants, don't know if this makes sense, it does to me.

forgot to mention something , women use spironoloctane as treatment for Androgenetic Alopecia. spironolactone is a diuretic, its used for treating fluid retention, edema.

 

[minoxiDjunkie]

Didn't read the whole thing, but you guys might want to take a look at my SA and urea thread

 

[inbrugge]

Excuse me for the noob question, but what are lymph vessels.

I'd like to also thank you guys participating in the discussion. Lots of good info.

I'm curious to hear about your suggested treatments and further research,S Foote, and your count arguments, bushbush.

 

[Fena2000]

Excuse me for the noob question, but what are lymph vessels.

I'd like to also thank you guys participating in the discussion. Lots of good info.

I'm curious to hear about your suggested treatments and further research,S Foote, and your count arguments, bushbush.

Lymphatic vessels are structures of the lymphatic system that transport fluid away from tissues. Lymphatic vessels are similar to blood vessels , but they don't carry blood. The fluid transported by lymphatic vessels is called lymph. Lymph is a clear fluid that comes from blood plasma that exits blood vessels at capillary beds. This fluid becomes the interstitial fluid that surrounds cells . Lymph vessels collect and filter this fluid before directing it toward blood vessels.

 

[Armando Jose]

If PGD2 is significant in male pattern baldness, why do transplants survive in this sea of PGD2 in the bald area?

Wellcome Mr Foote


In your experience, hair trasplant survive???

I remember you comments about donor dominance and having 3 o 4 hair trasplants on yourself,.... did you change this opinion?

- - - Updated - - -

OTOH
Cited: You are also assuming that there is a molecular difference within the follicles involved in male pattern baldness, compared to other follicles. I will elaborate on the evidence against this in the new thread I refer to in my post above..

I am with you, healthy scalp hairs are all similar, there is not genetic differences

 

[Fena2000]

S Foote, please tell me you came up with some kind of cure this weekend, that would be a great New Years gift!

 

[inbrugge]

S Foote, please tell me you came up with some kind of cure this weekend, that would be a great New Years gift!

Haha. Don't get over yourself bro. I doubt he will come up with any 'cure'. I am really interested in his next update also, but don't expect him to magically solve this huge problem by himself. At most, I hope for a few new things I can incorporate into my stack.

 

[maher]

Maybe by gently massaging parotid lymph glands and the area between temples and parotid LG would help in lymph drainage.

Since the lymphatic system does not have a heart to pump it, its upward movement depends on the motions of the muscle and joint pumps. It may be that aging (collagen deterioration/redistribution, face muscle transf.) compromises lymphatic circulation..

 

[minoxiDjunkie]

sooo uhhhh,,,,,, ------

traditional chinese med & accupuncture

they know all about 'spots' in the body,
and as far as i understand the purpose of the acupuncture is to make fluids - well - flow - where they would got clogged,
and an experienced 'healer' would know how to spot them, right ?

has anyone tried some hardcore TCM & acu ??

 

[S Foote.]

S Foote, please tell me you came up with some kind of cure this weekend, that would be a great New Years gift!

I have just posted a new thread on male pattern baldness research, and how I see the way forward. This addresses some of the points raised in this thread.

 

[bushbush]

Clearly something else is significant in human male pattern baldness.

Have you actually read the full study in question? They also demonstrated an inhibitory effect of PGD2 on human hair follicles.

You state quote " male pattern baldness has a molecular basis, therefore any functional 'cure' (bar transplanting complete cells or follicles) also will".

This is clearly wrong. Inflammation has a molecular basis, the ice pack that reduces this significantly has not.

Just because you are not aware of the mechanisms underlying the anti-inflammatory effects of ice treatment does not mean that ice instead has some sort of 'magical' effect. The constriction of blood vessels in cold environments is a normal mammalian physiological adaptation operating via the influx of calcium ions into smooth muscle cells. Consider though, if you wanted to manipulate this response just as one might want to manipulate the male pattern baldness process. You could simply remove the ice (in this simple example), but if that was not an option, you could deliver a drug (e.g. a vasodilator) to alter the physiological response on a molecular level and cascade up to a systemic one.

You are also assuming that there is a molecular difference within the follicles involved in male pattern baldness, compared to other follicles.

You are assuming that this is my assumption. Follicles might be identical (genetically) but the surrounding tissue/environment is what matters (again, see: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24438498).

 

[S Foote.]

Have you actually read the full study in question? They also demonstrated an inhibitory effect of PGD2 on human hair follicles.



Just because you are not aware of the mechanisms underlying the anti-inflammatory effects of ice treatment does not mean that ice instead has some sort of 'magical' effect. The constriction of blood vessels in cold environments is a normal mammalian physiological adaptation operating via the influx of calcium ions into smooth muscle cells. Consider though, if you wanted to manipulate this response just as one might want to manipulate the male pattern baldness process. You could simply remove the ice (in this simple example), but if that was not an option, you could deliver a drug (e.g. a vasodilator) to alter the physiological response on a molecular level and cascade up to a systemic one.



You are assuming that this is my assumption. Follicles might be identical (genetically) but the surrounding tissue/environment is what matters (again, see: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24438498).

I agree that it is the external environment that matters, as I describe in my thread here.

But excess PGD2 itself, its just one of the associated factors here.

Here's another study that shows increased mast cell activity and PGD2 production, are downstream consequences of local lymphedema.

http://journals.lww.com/aswcjournal...livamine_Containing_Products_to_Reduce.7.aspx

What should have been done in the tissue culture study of human follicles and PGD2, was the use of follicles from the normal donor area used for transplantation. We know these survive in the male pattern baldness area, so if that's because they are immune to all this PGD2 they should show no change.

If they also are growth restricted by PGD2 in culture, then PGD2 is obviously not significant in the human male pattern baldness situation.