Beethoven
Established Member
- Reaction score
- 0
DERSHOWITZ: Israel's Policy Is Perfectly 'Proportionate'
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123085925621747981.html
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123085925621747981.html
The Israeli–Palestinian conflict
- Thread starter Beethoven
- Start date
Beethoven
Established Member
- Reaction score
- 0
Re: DERSHOWITZ: Israel's Policy Is Perfectly 'Proportionate'
No one has been massacred. Israel fight only the terrorists. The terrorist are using their own famelies as live shield and they are therefor responsibile for any citizen being hurt.
Israel only aim at the terrorists while Hamas only aim on the Israeli citizens.
read again Dershowitz words:
barca FC said:
No one has been massacred. Israel fight only the terrorists. The terrorist are using their own famelies as live shield and they are therefor responsibile for any citizen being hurt.
Israel only aim at the terrorists while Hamas only aim on the Israeli citizens.
read again Dershowitz words:
HughJass
Senior Member
- Reaction score
- 3
Re: DERSHOWITZ: Israel's Policy Is Perfectly 'Proportionate'
I think that comment of yours reveals a number of things about you-
a) you lack the ability to think for yourself, so cut and paste (and spam us with) the talking points from IDF press statements instead
b) your sense of ethics is so incredibly poor that you believe that your airforce can bomb somebody, kill them and then accept no responsibility whatsoever *just* because those people happen to be in the same location as armed militants, mainly because they are trapped and have nowhere to go.
c) you think so lowly of Arabs that you actually believe that ~100 families would throw their children into the path of bullets and bombs in some kind of crazed blood sacrifice ritual. Not surprising given the inherintly racist nature of your state's policies.
We've got a 'true believer' here, that's for sure.
Beethoven said:
I think that comment of yours reveals a number of things about you-
a) you lack the ability to think for yourself, so cut and paste (and spam us with) the talking points from IDF press statements instead
b) your sense of ethics is so incredibly poor that you believe that your airforce can bomb somebody, kill them and then accept no responsibility whatsoever *just* because those people happen to be in the same location as armed militants, mainly because they are trapped and have nowhere to go.
c) you think so lowly of Arabs that you actually believe that ~100 families would throw their children into the path of bullets and bombs in some kind of crazed blood sacrifice ritual. Not surprising given the inherintly racist nature of your state's policies.
We've got a 'true believer' here, that's for sure.
Re: DERSHOWITZ: Israel's Policy Is Perfectly 'Proportionate'
Aussie you summed it up well. He's virtually a mouthpiece for the propaganda machine of the IDF.
Gaza is one of the most densely populated areas in the world. It is IMPOSSIBLE to bomb Gaza and not kill civilians.
Why is it densely populated? Ironically, they are people, and their children, originate from the very towns the Hamas rockets are hitting. They were pushed to the sea by Zionist terrorists.
There really are only two sources I know of that spew the absurd nonsense that Gazans use children/civilians to shield themselves. The IDF and Israeli media and some USA media/military. That's extreme bias for a source, for such an absurd claim. A SINGLE neutral source, or even a SINGLE Palestinian critic of Hamas, ie. the Fatah supporters who hate Hamas, would readily report, perhaps exaggerate such a claim.
Every single somewhat neutral source has repeated over and over, that there is zero evidence for that claim, whether BBC, Amnesty International, even Haaretz an Israeli paper, Peace Now an Israeli human rights group, from Wikipedia to InformationWars. I doubt they are all combining forces to form a phantom anti-semitic reporting scheme. :roll:
Aussie you summed it up well. He's virtually a mouthpiece for the propaganda machine of the IDF.
Gaza is one of the most densely populated areas in the world. It is IMPOSSIBLE to bomb Gaza and not kill civilians.
Why is it densely populated? Ironically, they are people, and their children, originate from the very towns the Hamas rockets are hitting. They were pushed to the sea by Zionist terrorists.
There really are only two sources I know of that spew the absurd nonsense that Gazans use children/civilians to shield themselves. The IDF and Israeli media and some USA media/military. That's extreme bias for a source, for such an absurd claim. A SINGLE neutral source, or even a SINGLE Palestinian critic of Hamas, ie. the Fatah supporters who hate Hamas, would readily report, perhaps exaggerate such a claim.
Every single somewhat neutral source has repeated over and over, that there is zero evidence for that claim, whether BBC, Amnesty International, even Haaretz an Israeli paper, Peace Now an Israeli human rights group, from Wikipedia to InformationWars. I doubt they are all combining forces to form a phantom anti-semitic reporting scheme. :roll:
Re: DERSHOWITZ: Israel's Policy Is Perfectly 'Proportionate'
Thought I'd take on the Harvard Professor. Don't know how such a poor academic made it there, probably cheated in his exams.
The truce reduced rockets from hundreds a month to about 15-20 a month fired by a handful of individuals from Islamic Jihad, a group unaffiliated with Hamas. Despite Hamas publically demanding a stop to all rockets by anyone, despite the truce being with HAMAS, and despite a massive reduction in rockets, from thousands that killed one that year to a handful that killed no one and by a group unaffiliated with Hamas. A blockade as a result followed, starving 1.5million civilians of basic needs, food, water, power. Hundreds of thousands of children were facing malnutrition. That can be defined as proportionate, if you're a Nazi. Article 73 of the same Charter states:
I think it is very safe to say that Israel conducted their blockade in a manner opposite of the above Article.
Controlling airspace, coastal areas, border crossings and REGULAR incursions is not a definition of "ended its' occupation". The actual first deaths post-illegal settler removal was the bombing of a family on Gazas beach, which killed mostly children. This was the first act of mindless aggression, rockets were a response, and the cycle continued.
No proof of it, I have proof of the opposite though.
The residents of Gaza have no where to run. They not only have a blockade which prevents the treatment of the injured with medical supplies, the UN run schools which operate as shelters for civilians are not safe. Just today a UN run school full of children who evacuated their homes from the north, among 15000, was bombed. 40 people were killed, mostly children. That single terrorist attack, killed more innocents than every rocket from Gaza combined since the start of the decade. So you have a situation where 1.5 million Gazans, cannot treat any injured civilians properly, cannot feel safe in their homes, and when they seek internationally recognized shelter premises, they are not safe there either. A last resort is to leave the country, but the borders are closed. Gazans are trapped, no where to run, no where to hide. And as a result, over 600 are dead, over 200 of them children, 94 women, over 100 innocent men, and then POLICE who are also civilians. The fewest category of people killed are Hamas' Military Wing, the ONLY legitimate target.
I wonder what he would do if his entire family were killed in one shot, inside a registered shelter, one of his daughters survives, but injured, and dies later because the enemy doesn't allow in medical supplies. What would he do? Do everything in his power to stop his brothers from responding with homemade scrap rockets? I doubt it...
Which family? Where in Gaza? The owner of the house was called "Hamas?". Gosh, he was probably narrating this myth to a bunch of retards in the USA who think everyone in the middle-east is either called Osama, Hamas or Muhammad. By the way I heard a Palestinian telling me a Jewish soldier was found eating a dead baby. For a Harvard professor, Dershowitz has seriously fallen short of basic scholarship.
Oh right, so Russia is also a bad guy, America and Israel fight anyone they want and murder however many they want, then claim civilians are used as shields, despite not a single neutral agency, outlet, nation or civilians confirming this. He sounds like a...........wait, Wiki has this to say:
Yes it is absurd, because that's not the claim. The outcry is that most of the people killed are civilians. Schools, hospitals already struggling, over a hundred civilian residential homes etc. have been bombed.
Under the laws of war, starving 1.5m civilians, blockading them, imprisoning them so they cannot even escape, and bombing shelters with children in them is not equivalent to death-less fire crackers. It simply isn't, anyone who thinks otherwise is utterly brainwashed. Anyone who thinks this war is because of those firecrackers is also delluded, an election is coming up, a girl is running, she needs to show she has balls. She decides to murder a few folks, coz that's manly. The more the better. These Jewish Zionist scumbags from everywhere but the region need to be dealt with.
How's this for proportionality: 95% of Palestine was Arab, Jewish was 5%, now it's 22% and 78% respectively, despite Palestinians outnumbering Israelis by almost 3 to 1. And most of those Israelis are foreigners in the first place. Was that your idea of proportionate? It seems so, since you think 620 people killed seems fine, in response to 1 this year at the time of the attack.
More myths. :roll:
If Israel done that, the death toll would be no where near 620.
Qassams are a metal cylinder, with solid sugar, two fertilisers and TNT, welded onto a plate. They are not aimed at anything. Unfortunately the USA does not provide targetting systems and improved missiles for effective military targetting for Hamas or Fatah, as it does with Zionist terrorists, who seem to consistently kill far more civilians than anyone else.
More myths.
Hamas was officially elected, internationally agreed to be fair, and a recognized political entity. Israel kills not only Hamas military unprovoked, but local security, any members, whether combatant or not. That is a war crime.
Sending settlers illegally into other people's lands, preventing civilians returning home by definition is a declaration of war, and that was the first move, which continues to this day. The settlers removed from Gaza have been thrice replaced in number in the West Bank, breaking a primary condition of the Road Map. That is a crime. And it went unpunished.
The conflict will continue...
So you can Dershove-it... :jackit:
Thought I'd take on the Harvard Professor. Don't know how such a poor academic made it there, probably cheated in his exams.
The truce reduced rockets from hundreds a month to about 15-20 a month fired by a handful of individuals from Islamic Jihad, a group unaffiliated with Hamas. Despite Hamas publically demanding a stop to all rockets by anyone, despite the truce being with HAMAS, and despite a massive reduction in rockets, from thousands that killed one that year to a handful that killed no one and by a group unaffiliated with Hamas. A blockade as a result followed, starving 1.5million civilians of basic needs, food, water, power. Hundreds of thousands of children were facing malnutrition. That can be defined as proportionate, if you're a Nazi. Article 73 of the same Charter states:
I think it is very safe to say that Israel conducted their blockade in a manner opposite of the above Article.
Controlling airspace, coastal areas, border crossings and REGULAR incursions is not a definition of "ended its' occupation". The actual first deaths post-illegal settler removal was the bombing of a family on Gazas beach, which killed mostly children. This was the first act of mindless aggression, rockets were a response, and the cycle continued.
No proof of it, I have proof of the opposite though.
The residents of Gaza have no where to run. They not only have a blockade which prevents the treatment of the injured with medical supplies, the UN run schools which operate as shelters for civilians are not safe. Just today a UN run school full of children who evacuated their homes from the north, among 15000, was bombed. 40 people were killed, mostly children. That single terrorist attack, killed more innocents than every rocket from Gaza combined since the start of the decade. So you have a situation where 1.5 million Gazans, cannot treat any injured civilians properly, cannot feel safe in their homes, and when they seek internationally recognized shelter premises, they are not safe there either. A last resort is to leave the country, but the borders are closed. Gazans are trapped, no where to run, no where to hide. And as a result, over 600 are dead, over 200 of them children, 94 women, over 100 innocent men, and then POLICE who are also civilians. The fewest category of people killed are Hamas' Military Wing, the ONLY legitimate target.
I wonder what he would do if his entire family were killed in one shot, inside a registered shelter, one of his daughters survives, but injured, and dies later because the enemy doesn't allow in medical supplies. What would he do? Do everything in his power to stop his brothers from responding with homemade scrap rockets? I doubt it...
Which family? Where in Gaza? The owner of the house was called "Hamas?". Gosh, he was probably narrating this myth to a bunch of retards in the USA who think everyone in the middle-east is either called Osama, Hamas or Muhammad. By the way I heard a Palestinian telling me a Jewish soldier was found eating a dead baby. For a Harvard professor, Dershowitz has seriously fallen short of basic scholarship.
Oh right, so Russia is also a bad guy, America and Israel fight anyone they want and murder however many they want, then claim civilians are used as shields, despite not a single neutral agency, outlet, nation or civilians confirming this. He sounds like a...........wait, Wiki has this to say:
Yes it is absurd, because that's not the claim. The outcry is that most of the people killed are civilians. Schools, hospitals already struggling, over a hundred civilian residential homes etc. have been bombed.
Under the laws of war, starving 1.5m civilians, blockading them, imprisoning them so they cannot even escape, and bombing shelters with children in them is not equivalent to death-less fire crackers. It simply isn't, anyone who thinks otherwise is utterly brainwashed. Anyone who thinks this war is because of those firecrackers is also delluded, an election is coming up, a girl is running, she needs to show she has balls. She decides to murder a few folks, coz that's manly. The more the better. These Jewish Zionist scumbags from everywhere but the region need to be dealt with.
How's this for proportionality: 95% of Palestine was Arab, Jewish was 5%, now it's 22% and 78% respectively, despite Palestinians outnumbering Israelis by almost 3 to 1. And most of those Israelis are foreigners in the first place. Was that your idea of proportionate? It seems so, since you think 620 people killed seems fine, in response to 1 this year at the time of the attack.
More myths. :roll:
If Israel done that, the death toll would be no where near 620.
Qassams are a metal cylinder, with solid sugar, two fertilisers and TNT, welded onto a plate. They are not aimed at anything. Unfortunately the USA does not provide targetting systems and improved missiles for effective military targetting for Hamas or Fatah, as it does with Zionist terrorists, who seem to consistently kill far more civilians than anyone else.
More myths.
Hamas was officially elected, internationally agreed to be fair, and a recognized political entity. Israel kills not only Hamas military unprovoked, but local security, any members, whether combatant or not. That is a war crime.
Sending settlers illegally into other people's lands, preventing civilians returning home by definition is a declaration of war, and that was the first move, which continues to this day. The settlers removed from Gaza have been thrice replaced in number in the West Bank, breaking a primary condition of the Road Map. That is a crime. And it went unpunished.
The conflict will continue...
So you can Dershove-it... :jackit:
Beethoven
Established Member
- Reaction score
- 0
Re: DERSHOWITZ: Israel's Policy Is Perfectly 'Proportionate'
I see that you are more interested in writing personal stuff than real discussion of the situation. The funny stuff is that everything you wrote is actually about you: you have been brainwashed from childhood to think that the Israelis are the devils, that we don't care about the life of others. Ironically we care much more about the life of the arabs than they care about our lives. We are much more moral than them. We quaestion our government constantly, for every act. Out media is very develpoed like Hammy said - our newspaper Haaretz keep questioning every event. Has the other side ever question himself? would you agree that your side is doing wrong? have you ever done that? We did it many times. We questioning our army and its act. We are truly sorry for citizens who die on both side. The arab side is only crying for his deads while they are celebrating the Israeli deads. They done it many times.
Our ethics is much more an aussie kid can understand.
aussieavodart said:
I see that you are more interested in writing personal stuff than real discussion of the situation. The funny stuff is that everything you wrote is actually about you: you have been brainwashed from childhood to think that the Israelis are the devils, that we don't care about the life of others. Ironically we care much more about the life of the arabs than they care about our lives. We are much more moral than them. We quaestion our government constantly, for every act. Out media is very develpoed like Hammy said - our newspaper Haaretz keep questioning every event. Has the other side ever question himself? would you agree that your side is doing wrong? have you ever done that? We did it many times. We questioning our army and its act. We are truly sorry for citizens who die on both side. The arab side is only crying for his deads while they are celebrating the Israeli deads. They done it many times.
Our ethics is much more an aussie kid can understand.
Re: DERSHOWITZ: Israel's Policy Is Perfectly 'Proportionate'
Gosh the broken record insists on playing. You are sugar-coating a Zionist perception that has been prevalent since before any of the scum invaded Palestine: We are better than them so we can steal what they have. That is the ethos your country is built on. Forget the fact Hamas tactics were exactly those used by Irgun and the Stern Gang to further their Zionist goals, but to praise THEM in your schools whilst villifying the proportionate (deliberate choice of words) response at the aftermath, sums up the nonsensical self-centric viewpoint of Zionism. You play "civilized" ONLY ONCE you've achieved the objectives of terrorism, and only once your military doesn't look guerilla anymore. It seems the more damage one can do, the more people you can kill, the more civilized a nation is.
Beethoven said:
Gosh the broken record insists on playing. You are sugar-coating a Zionist perception that has been prevalent since before any of the scum invaded Palestine: We are better than them so we can steal what they have. That is the ethos your country is built on. Forget the fact Hamas tactics were exactly those used by Irgun and the Stern Gang to further their Zionist goals, but to praise THEM in your schools whilst villifying the proportionate (deliberate choice of words) response at the aftermath, sums up the nonsensical self-centric viewpoint of Zionism. You play "civilized" ONLY ONCE you've achieved the objectives of terrorism, and only once your military doesn't look guerilla anymore. It seems the more damage one can do, the more people you can kill, the more civilized a nation is.
Beethoven
Established Member
- Reaction score
- 0
Re: DERSHOWITZ: Israel's Policy Is Perfectly 'Proportionate'
The difference between you and me is that I'm seeking peace. I believe that the country should be divided - which means we should give up some in order that the palestinian get the state they desreve, so there will be two states Israel and Palestin. You believe that the country should be all Palestin, and Israelis should be kicked out, right?
We didn't stole anything. We were here houndreds of years before Mouhamd was born.
Regarding the present conflict: Israel evacuated Gazza three years ago. the occupation is over, the settlments have been removed. No reason for war. The Palestinians had all the time and money they got from Europe to build factories, hospitals, schools, universities. And what have they done? nothing! they just build rockets to shoot at Israeli cities. We are offering peace, you yourslef admit that you don't believe that Israel has the right to exist, you are the one that wants war.
The difference between you and me is that I'm seeking peace. I believe that the country should be divided - which means we should give up some in order that the palestinian get the state they desreve, so there will be two states Israel and Palestin. You believe that the country should be all Palestin, and Israelis should be kicked out, right?
We didn't stole anything. We were here houndreds of years before Mouhamd was born.
Regarding the present conflict: Israel evacuated Gazza three years ago. the occupation is over, the settlments have been removed. No reason for war. The Palestinians had all the time and money they got from Europe to build factories, hospitals, schools, universities. And what have they done? nothing! they just build rockets to shoot at Israeli cities. We are offering peace, you yourslef admit that you don't believe that Israel has the right to exist, you are the one that wants war.
Where should the borders be drawn for Israel/Palistine?
The Gaza strip is just so small for so many people, especially compared to Israel. And the West bank is all mountains, which would make it hard to put many houses in there. The rest of Israel is flat.
I say Palistine should get half, and should have at least 1/3 of the coast, and the boarder should be drawn so not to uproot too many people, but also to have the shortest, straightest wall possible. I say we cut an East West wall through the middle and give the Palistinians the southern half, connecting Gaza and West Bank. The North is the most populated anyway. Very important that the Israeli's not tear down any of the buildings or infrastructure before they leave. The Isreali government can give IOU's for 1/3 the market value of the propperty left behind to those leaving, and pay it to them over 6 years, with tax dollars.
Why are all the Palistinians forced into that tiny strip anyway? How did that happen?
The Gaza strip is just so small for so many people, especially compared to Israel. And the West bank is all mountains, which would make it hard to put many houses in there. The rest of Israel is flat.
I say Palistine should get half, and should have at least 1/3 of the coast, and the boarder should be drawn so not to uproot too many people, but also to have the shortest, straightest wall possible. I say we cut an East West wall through the middle and give the Palistinians the southern half, connecting Gaza and West Bank. The North is the most populated anyway. Very important that the Israeli's not tear down any of the buildings or infrastructure before they leave. The Isreali government can give IOU's for 1/3 the market value of the propperty left behind to those leaving, and pay it to them over 6 years, with tax dollars.
Why are all the Palistinians forced into that tiny strip anyway? How did that happen?
squeegee
Banned
- Reaction score
- 132
Re: Where should the borders be drawn for Israel/Palistine?
Why you don't have I don't give a f*****g sh*t in your options in your poll.. because the Middle-East as much importance in my life than my butt crack. They should fence both countries, put camera all around it, give them some AK-47, bombs of any kind...knives...etc.. oh yeah they already got that..sorry.. and play their fights on pay per view.This Planet is huge and there is others priorities than them as far as I know and way better subject to talk about like Jr. Hockey, American Football or even the temperature. This story is older than Jesus itself. :badmood:
Why you don't have I don't give a f*****g sh*t in your options in your poll.. because the Middle-East as much importance in my life than my butt crack. They should fence both countries, put camera all around it, give them some AK-47, bombs of any kind...knives...etc.. oh yeah they already got that..sorry.. and play their fights on pay per view.This Planet is huge and there is others priorities than them as far as I know and way better subject to talk about like Jr. Hockey, American Football or even the temperature. This story is older than Jesus itself. :badmood:
Re: Where should the borders be drawn for Israel/Palistine?
I suspect you are kidding, though I bet that would make some money. But I also think a lot of people who don't care would start caring really soon when they see people dying on camera, and living in those conditions. Too bad we have war fogged soldiers and a $12,000,000,000,000 national debt and bad economy. If the US would guarantee that I my only mission would be to divide and set up a bi-state Israel/Pakistan, I'd enlist. I'd have to know I was not going to some other conflict afterwards, or getting stuck at Camp Pendleton afterwards though.
I take that back. My next stop could be Dafar. I'd have to read up more on what those guys are doing to help themselves first though. Only reason I'd go to Israel is I suspect that when 25,000,000 people are stuck on a strip the size of the hills in my back yard, and don't have the funding of the Israeli's, most likely the civilians can't do much to help themselves.
squeegee said:
I suspect you are kidding, though I bet that would make some money. But I also think a lot of people who don't care would start caring really soon when they see people dying on camera, and living in those conditions. Too bad we have war fogged soldiers and a $12,000,000,000,000 national debt and bad economy. If the US would guarantee that I my only mission would be to divide and set up a bi-state Israel/Pakistan, I'd enlist. I'd have to know I was not going to some other conflict afterwards, or getting stuck at Camp Pendleton afterwards though.
I take that back. My next stop could be Dafar. I'd have to read up more on what those guys are doing to help themselves first though. Only reason I'd go to Israel is I suspect that when 25,000,000 people are stuck on a strip the size of the hills in my back yard, and don't have the funding of the Israeli's, most likely the civilians can't do much to help themselves.
ali777
Senior Member
- Reaction score
- 4
Re: Where should the borders be drawn for Israel/Palistine?
I'm not sure if he's kidding....
I remember the invasion of Kuwait and the first gulf war, CNN was broadcasting live pictures from the war zone. Everyone used to say that from now on all the wars will be televised on pay per view.... That was 17-18 years ago.
CCS said:
I'm not sure if he's kidding....
I remember the invasion of Kuwait and the first gulf war, CNN was broadcasting live pictures from the war zone. Everyone used to say that from now on all the wars will be televised on pay per view.... That was 17-18 years ago.
Re: Where should the borders be drawn for Israel/Palistine?
Seeing a building blow up on from 200 yards away, especially on night vision view, does not count. Unless you see people bleading and screaming up close, and see their facial expressions from 10 feet away, and see them before during and after bullets hitting them, then you won't get the picture.
I remember seeing pictures of Iraqi's waving white shirts over their heads. But no pain.
Seeing a building blow up on from 200 yards away, especially on night vision view, does not count. Unless you see people bleading and screaming up close, and see their facial expressions from 10 feet away, and see them before during and after bullets hitting them, then you won't get the picture.
I remember seeing pictures of Iraqi's waving white shirts over their heads. But no pain.
Re: Where should the borders be drawn for Israel/Palistine?
I got it for u for free
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbwAuB8j440
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wckLxdE ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9RwnyVK ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=604n9YKa ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjdSJI97 ... re=related
squeegee said:
I got it for u for free
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbwAuB8j440
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wckLxdE ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9RwnyVK ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=604n9YKa ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjdSJI97 ... re=related
