The Israeli–Palestinian conflict

[HughJass]

Re: DERSHOWITZ: Israel's Policy Is Perfectly 'Proportionate'

Im pritty much sure that it has something to do with our army doing the same thing for the last 50 years...

The same army that hasn't actually won a conflict in quite some time, was literally chased out of Lebanon and has failed to route a single one of these Islamic groups in 50 years?

If Israeli casualties are low, it's because the the public are getting squeemesh about sacrifices, not because of success. I'm sure if Hamas had the same kit as you lot have they might find that their casulties would fall a bit as well.

read your own link and see for yourself that rockets (although in sagnificant small amount) were still fired from the strip.

And not by Hamas.

The Hamas rocket attacks died off after Israel agreed to the ceasefire, they've now picked up against since Israel attacked Gaza.

So why are you still towing this line that the war is a legitimate retaliation against Hamas rocket attacks?

I'd like you to back this up with solid avidance (just to remind you, if you even botherd reading your link,

Did you not see the CNN clip? It was reported by a number of news agenices that Israel broke it first. Even American ones. Israel attacked numerous times inside Gaza and they weren't retaliations against Hamas.

Maybe they did, it doesnt matter as long as the Hamas in charge of the strip and didnt even bothered trying to stop or arrest these groups,

Hamas arrests militants after rocket fire

but then again.. why should it?!(ill give you a hint, Hamas kinda supports the "blessed activity")

Why should it? Because those groups are Fatah linked and it has been reported that Fatah, encouraged by the Bush admin, have been trying to ferment a civil war amongst Palestinians in Gaza in order to topple Hamas. Hamas found out about this and that's how they ended up in a gunfight for control of Gaza. They didn't seize power- they fought back an attempted coup.

So not only has it been in Hamas' interest to stop those groups firing rockets as a matter of preserving the ceasefire, but also as a matter of retaining political power.

after all most of the money Hamas gets from the "Muslim Brotherhood" in Egypt which is an extreme organization that one of its stated goals is to whipe out Israel and evey Jewish man and woman standing.

That may be so, and you can quote as much Koran inspired scripture as you want, it doesn't change the fact that Hamas' position is to accept Israel at the 67 lines

Hamas offers truce in return for 1967 borders
No Israeli response, but U.S. rejects it as 'no change' Hamas offers truce in return for 1967 borders
No Israeli response, but U.S. rejects it as 'no change'

As we can see, it is not Hamas that is the stumbling block to peace. It is the US government which constantly kowtows the Zionist lobby.

I didnt "Omit" civilians, you just dont know math, ill help you : 180 (dead people) - 155 (terrorists) = 25 cicvilians. not only you dont know math you also should check yourself for ADD, i wrote "First Israeli ecounter in the stip in this war" <--- did you see the "First" over there :shock: ?? i marked it for you! i wasnt reffering the whole battle up to this point, but only the FIRST ATTECK!,

Unfortunately for Israel, people remember the WHOLE war. Not just 1/20th of it.

Look, we can arrgue about this all day and night, the fact is, like i stated in the other thread, me and most Israeli people all we want is peace, same as manny Palastineans, but what can you do when the majority of them is being brainwashed every singel day at schools,

And Israeli's are not fed propaganda?

Your comments are evidence that they are, because you don't really seem to understand what is going on here and who your real enemies are.

 

[Smooth]

Re: DERSHOWITZ: Israel's Policy Is Perfectly 'Proportionate'

The same army that hasn't actually won a conflict in quite some time, was literally chased out of Lebanon and has failed to route a single one of these Islamic groups in 50 years?

So your interpretation of Israel not massacring an exteme organization to the ground (so much for you being a pacifist) is a failure... how intresting... Israel doesnt belive in whiping an entire organization of people (no matter how extrem they are!) but only is trying to kill the heads of the organizations who preaching hate and death to the Israeli people, an action like you amplied (whiping a whole organization) is inhumane in any standard or category for that matter. you should know better!

And not by Hamas.

The Hamas rocket attacks died off after Israel agreed to the ceasefire, they've now picked up against since Israel attacked Gaza.

So why are you still towing this line that the war is a legitimate retaliation against Hamas rocket attacks?

The attecks didnt died (read your own link) Hamas didnt take responsibility for them as you said, but didnt even tried to stop them ! they conitued for over 8 years. Hamas is the oprating force inside Gazza, it should have taken care for the situation instead of supporting it. read my post above.

Did you not see the CNN clip? It was reported by a number of news agenices that Israel broke it first. Even American ones. Israel attacked numerous times inside Gaza and they weren't retaliations against Hamas

Again, Hamas is the oprating force inside Gazza (they won the ellections) they know exactly how, where and what is going on inside and outside the Gazza strip, they have control over the bombings wherer you like to admit it or not, moreover i've seen with my own eyes who exactly doing the shotings, not once the Hamas troppers laoded and shot the Kasams into Israel, there are things you dont know, you have to watch in your own eyes to belive. Hamas DID atteck Israel during the ceasefire.

Hamas arrests militants after rocket fire

This is exactly the type of ignorance im talking about, people see what they want instead of what actually going in the Gazza stip:
the "militants" that attecked Israel are Fatah troops (read your own link please )Hamas and Fatah are anemies you have to be a complete idiot not too see the ironic behind this : "Hamas care so much for israel that it arrests 2 Patah troppers" Hamas is masscaring the Fatah (linked) and would do anything to hurt or kill them, so think if this is how they treat their own , how woud they treat Israel?

That may be so, and you can quote as much Koran inspired scripture as you want, it doesn't change the fact that Hamas' position is to accept Israel at the 67 lines

a quete from your own link, by Tom Casey:

"What is clear to us is that there certainly is no change in Hamas’ position,â€￾ said deputy spokesman Tom Casey. “It does not recognize Israel’s right to exist, it has not eschewed or walked away from terrorism and violence, nor has it said it will honor any of the previous agreements that have been made with the Israeli government.â€￾

Hamas doesnt want only the 67' borderlines, it wants Israel gone, and there is no way on earth that the world would let Hamas (a violant radicale terrorist organization) have controle over Jerusalem which is a holy place for the 3 main religions.

Your comments are evidence that they are, because you don't really seem to understand what is going on here and who your real enemies are.

Yeah its funny how you think you know better then me, how manny times exactly you been into Gazza? or Israel for that matter? arent you from Austrelia? dont be rude telling me who is my "enemy" lol moron
Hamas is not a group of angels you are trying to protect so much its a violant group of radicale haters, terrorists and extreme fundamentalism!!
heres a nice clip for you (not for the sensetive ones) WATCH IT
[youtube:27gi1rau]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_OGhj43GAE[/youtube:27gi1rau]

 

[CCS]

Re: Where should the borders be drawn for Israel/Palistine?

Israel giving them free electricity at all is a good point. But why can't they make their own electricity? Were they moved away from their electric plants? Or did they just never have electricity until now?

 

[Cassin]

Re: Where should the borders be drawn for Israel/Palistine?

Everyone is living on land that was stolen by someone else at some point.

 

[Smooth]

Re: Where should the borders be drawn for Israel/Palistine?

CCS, they have a small power plant, but its not enough, it producs less then 30% of the electricity they use, the rest is coming direcly from Israel (free of charge btw..), building a power plant would cost them too much, and the money they do get, is used for "other importancies".........

(Edit later: theres a link if you want to read more about it :Clicky.)

 

[HughJass]

Re: DERSHOWITZ: Israel's Policy Is Perfectly 'Proportionate'

So your interpretation of Israel not massacring an exteme organization to the ground (so much for you being a pacifist) is a failure... how intresting...

Nope, that's not what I said at all. I said Israel had never comprehensively beaten any of these groups into non-existence.

Israel doesnt belive in whiping an entire organization of people

"Israel vows to destroy Hamas brick by brick"

"Israel may evacuate children, vows to destroy Hizbollah"

Israel always says it will finish it's enemies/ It will finish the rocket attack/ It will destroy the threat and never does.

The attecks didnt died (read your own link) Hamas didnt take responsibility for them as you said,

Your government didn't even attribute responsibility to Hamas for those rocket attacks, so what basis do you have for accusing Hamas?

but didn't even tried to stop them !

:roll: Did you miss the article detailing how Hamas arrested other militants who tried to fire into Israel?

they conitued for over 8 years.

They stopped firing them after the ceasefire. It was the other groups who fired them.

How many fvcking times are we going to go over this?!

Again, Hamas is the oprating force inside Gazza (they won the ellections) they know exactly how, where and what is going on inside and outside the Gazza strip, they have control over the bombings wherer you like to admit it or not,

Nope. As I've already said, Hamas had double the reason to stop the attacks. Not only to meet their of the ceasefire agreement, but to stop their political enemies from destroying them by dragging them into a war. The only logical conclusion is that Hamas couldn't control them.

This is exactly the type of ignorance im talking about, people see what they want instead of what actually going in the Gazza stip:
the "militants" that attecked Israel are Fatah troops (read your own link please )Hamas and Fatah are anemies you have to be a complete idiot not too see the ironic behind this : "Hamas care so much for israel that it arrests 2 Patah troppers" Hamas is masscaring the Fatah (linked) and would do anything to hurt or kill them, so think if this is how they treat their own , how woud they treat Israel?

What does this prove? That Hamas doesn't like Israelis? We already knew that.

If your suggesting that it proves that Hamas were behind the rockets then all your comment is, is a suggestion of guilt based on character and is contradicted by evidence showing who actually fired the rockets.

"What is clear to us is that there certainly is no change in Hamas’ position,â€￾ said deputy spokesman Tom Casey. “It does not recognize Israel’s right to exist, it has not eschewed or walked away from terrorism and violence, nor has it said it will honor any of the previous agreements that have been made with the Israeli government.â€￾
Hamas doesnt want only the 67' borderlines, it wants Israel gone, and there is no way on earth that the world would let Hamas (a violant radicale terrorist organization) have controle over Jerusalem which is a holy place for the 3 main religions.

Who gives a sh*t what the Bush administration says? These are the clueless fvcks who insisted on elections which bought Hamas into power in the first place. Why would you think they knew anything about Palestinian militant groups?

Presumably, you read the article. Hamas quite clearly spelled out what it was willing to do yet for some reason you'd rather believe that an administration, famous for it's denial of reality, when it suggests that Hamas' position hadn't really changed, even though it clearly had.

Yeah its funny how you think you know better then me, how manny times exactly you been into Gazza? or Israel for that matter? arent you from Austrelia? dont be rude telling me who is my "enemy" lol moron

Who cares how many times you've been to Gaza or where you live? It took someone from the other side of the planet to point out who had actually been attacking you.

Moron? You say you want peace yet you advocate attacking a group which fulfilled it's obligations under the ceasefire arrangement and then offered to negotiate a truce. Do you know how fvcking nuts that is? The attacks have given Hamas an even stronger mandate amongst it's people, a reason never to come back to the negotiating table and reason to terrorize Israel for years to come.

Yes, clearly you've got a better grip on things than I do :roll:

Hamas is not a group of angels you are trying to protect so much its a violant group of radicale haters, terrorists and extreme fundamentalism!!

Again, what on earth has this got to do with anything? I'm not talking about weather Hamas are nice guys or not, I'm trying to seperate the fact from the bullshit yet you seem incapable of tackling the points I put in front of you and instead opt to keeping yelling about how violent and oppressive Hamas are. Is this what constitutes debate in your world?

 

[souldoctor]

Re: DERSHOWITZ: Israel's Policy Is Perfectly 'Proportionate'

I think the human shields thing is no longer a valid excuse seeing as it has now come out that Israel LIED about why they hit the UN schools. They initially said Hamas were firing from within the UN school but are now attributing to a 'misfire'.

The sickest thing was this

Israeli military actions prompted an unusual public rebuke from the International Red Cross after the army had moved a Palestinian family into a building and shelled it, killing 30. The surviving children clung to the bodies of their dead mothers for four days while the army blocked rescuers from reaching the wounded.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/ja ... war-crimes

I mean they didn't let the INTERNATIONAL RED CROSS through.

this sh*t has to stop , israel are a rogue state who could be accused of acting like pure sadists

 

[Smooth]

Re: DERSHOWITZ: Israel's Policy Is Perfectly 'Proportionate'

So your interpretation of Israel not massacring an exteme organization to the ground (so much for you being a pacifist) is a failure... how intresting...

Nope, that's not what I said at all. I said Israel had never comprehensively beaten any of these groups into non-existence.

Again, let me get this one out of the way..."beaten any of these groups into non-existence" doesnt seem inhumane in your world? dont you agree that killing just the heads of the organizations is enough to destroy it as an organization, me and my goverment do not belive in massacring a group of people (no matter how extreme they are), its enough to destroy the organization by killing the heads of it, the people who preach for hate and killing of inocent people!

"Israel vows to destroy Hamas brick by brick"

"Israel may evacuate children, vows to destroy Hizbollah"

Israel always says it will finish it's enemies/ It will finish the rocket attack/ It will destroy the threat and never does.

Again your ADD kicks in - reading is not eanough, you have to read and understand the words... again Smooth for the rescue ( :roll: ): Israel vows to destory the Hamas and Hizollah means killing the heads of these extreme organizations in order to destroy it as an organization, Israel, rightfully! Vows and will keep Vowing to destory any organization which its main goal is to whipe out Israel from the planet, like Hamas and Hizbolah... by "destroying" it means to kill the heads of the organization.

Your government didn't even attribute responsibility to Hamas for those rocket attacks, so what basis do you have for accusing Hamas?

Israel attribute responsibility for the Hamas not shoting the rockets, but not trying to stop the shootings and supporting them as the Hamas is the active force ellected by the palastinas themselvs.

Did you miss the article detailing how Hamas arrested other militants who tried to fire into Israel?

No i didnt, you didnt bother reading my whole post:

This is exactly the type of ignorance im talking about, people see what they want instead of what actually going in the Gazza stip:
the "militants" that attecked Israel are Fatah troops (read your own link please )Hamas and Fatah are anemies you have to be a complete idiot not too see the ironic behind this : "Hamas care so much for israel that it arrests 2 Patah troppers" Hamas is masscaring the Fatah (linked) and would do anything to hurt or kill them, so think if this is how they treat their own , how woud they treat Israel?

It was the other groups who fired them.

Awe! finally we have something we kinda agree! Missles were fired from the strip during 2008, Hamas was, and still is, the goverment of Gazza! and therefor resposible for ANY attecks coming from the strip (although the Hamas itself -for argumentsake- didnt do the shotings or took public reponsibility for it), use some common sense here, its not hard, if a county is being fired at by other country for 8 years, dont you think that the active forces should held responsible for it?!?!... what you basicly saying is that the Hamas shouldnt be balmed for the fire coming from the strip into Israel right?!.. well dont blame Israel if the IDF is firing into the strip... same principle my borther! ... from now on, ill use the same argument you use : Israel wants peace, it never killed one Hamas terrrorits! it never hurt anyone inside the strip, its some other group that Israel doesnt know or have any controle over, that does the firing into the strip. we cool now ?!

Who gives a sh*t what the Bush administration says?

Apparently you dont, but i do, and likely he knows *just a little* more then you about deplomatic issues afer all he is the Deputy Spokesman and deputy assistant secretary for public affairs at the United States department of state.... you can argue with the wall if you think you know more then he does .

Who cares how many times you've been to Gaza or where you live?

Dont know... people witha functional brain maybe?? a peron who understands that you have to be in a place to actually know whats going on there.... ( ... :jackit: ).

Yes, clearly you've got a better grip on things than I do

True, i live here, you dont, you think becuase Hamas "stoped" two Fatah when they were allegedly shooting at Israel proves that Hamas wants peace?! what about the thousends of missles that were fired at Sderot every single day from the stip before andafter the "arrest", hu????
Not to mention what a joke the "errest" is, even your link says that the two shooters are Fatah troops, and as you know Hamas and Fatah hates eachother! THEY KILL EACHOTHER, you know they are both palastinaes right?! they are killing their own people becasue they afraid that Fatah will come to raise again... when on earth you heard an Israeli govermaent (or any other western goverment for that matter) trying to eliminate its opposers by massacring them?!?!?!.. Hamas kills Fatah beacuse it shots at Israel..lol.. talk about killing two birds in one shot, literally...
Heres a link to the Hamas and Fatah "relationship" (Click) this only proves just how violant, radicale haters, terrorists and extreme fundamentalists Hamas truely are!

 

[SE-freak]

Re: DERSHOWITZ: Israel's Policy Is Perfectly 'Proportionate'

Palestinians, the Jews of today.

 

[Cassin]

Re: DERSHOWITZ: Israel's Policy Is Perfectly 'Proportionate'

Don't forget to stay away from religion as much as possible guys...so far you have...thanks.

 

[HughJass]

Re: DERSHOWITZ: Israel's Policy Is Perfectly 'Proportionate'

dont you agree that killing just the heads of the organizations is enough to destroy it as an organization

Nope. Israel has killed plenty of leaders and they just get replaced. The organizations are far from beaten.

me and my goverment do not belive in massacring a group of people

Nobody who knows anything about Israeli history wouldn't believe one shred of that.

Again your ADD kicks in - reading is not eanough, you have to read and understand the words... again Smooth for the rescue ( :roll: ): Israel vows to destory the Hamas and Hizollah means killing the heads of these extreme organizations in order to destroy it as an organization,

So you are trying to destroy the organization as a whole then? :roll:

Israel, rightfully! Vows and will keep Vowing to destory any organization which its main goal is to whipe out Israel from the planet, like Hamas and Hizbolah..

Still towing this untrue line about Hamas' intentions.

Awe! finally we have something we kinda agree! Missles were fired from the strip during 2008, Hamas was, and still is, the goverment of Gazza! and therefor resposible for ANY attecks coming from the strip (although the Hamas itself -for argumentsake- didnt do the shotings or took public reponsibility for it), use some common sense here, its not hard, if a county is being fired at by other country for 8 years, dont you think that the active forces should held responsible for it?!?!... what you basicly saying is that the Hamas shouldnt be balmed for the fire coming from the strip into Israel right?!..

Absolute cobblers. This whole situation revolves around an Israeli-US-Fatah coup attempt to oust Hamas:
http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/feat ... gaza200804

You want to blame anyone, then blame them. Israel, Fatah and the US gov in particular wanted this war and Fatah have used their proxies to provoke it.

For Israel and the US gov to say Hamas are responsible is hypocritical, not to mention the biggest lie going.

Apparently you dont, but i do, and likely he knows *just a little* more then you about deplomatic issues afer all he is the Deputy Spokesman and deputy assistant secretary for public affairs at the United States department of state.... you can argue with the wall if you think you know more then he does .

Yeah he was so diplomatic that he completely shut down a group offering a peace treaty
:roll: Obviously a professional.

True, i live here, you dont, you think becuase Hamas "stoped" two Fatah when they were allegedly shooting at Israel proves that Hamas wants peace?!

:shakehead: No, them observing the previous ceasefire and their offer of a truce does

Where is the evidence that Israel wants peace , it broke the ceasefire ffs!

To say that it is Hamas that does not want peace is an utter croc. The US government is not allowing their to be peace as evidenced by it's refusal to even accept an offer of negotiation from Hamas.

what about the thousends of missles that were fired at Sderot every single day from the stip before andafter the "arrest", hu????

What about all the attacks on Palestinians before and after the arrest?

Hamas observed the ceasefire and offered a truce while Israel ignored both yet you still want to harp on about them being the ones who aren't genuine about a solution?

:shakehead:

 

[The Gardener]

Re: DERSHOWITZ: Israel's Policy Is Perfectly 'Proportionate'

The reason why Israel hasn't been able to unseat Hizbullah or Hamas is because the politically correct lefties are forcing them to fight these wars with a hand tied behind their back. You want an example of "disporportionality"?... how about the first Gulf War. I didn't hear anyone whining about how "disporportionate" we were being when trying to get Saddam out of Kuwait.

Until the Palestinians either stop attacking Israel, or until they are willing to come to the negotiating table without their position being one of "NONE of Israel is allowed to exist" then they'll continue suffering.

I think that this Kunstler piece cited below sums it up pretty well. This whole "Israelis are the new Nazis" claim is merely a left wing attempt at being clever.... but in truth, its a bunch of baloney.

http://jameshowardkunstler.typepad.com/ ... tinia.html

 

[mulder]

Max Blumenthal Interviews Israel Supporters At Rally In NY.

The cognitive dissonance is incredible...

http://www.alternet.org/audits/119372

On January 11, an estimated 10,000 people rallied in front of the Israeli consulate in midtown New York in support of Israel’s attack on the Gaza Strip. The rally, which was organized by UJA-Federation of New York and the Jewish Community Relations Council of New York in cooperation with the Conference of Presidents of Major American Jewish Organizations, featured speeches by New York’s most senior lawmakers. While the crowd was riled to righteous anger by speeches about Hamas evildoers, the event was a festive affair that began and ended with singing and joyous dancing.

Sen. Chuck Schumer highlighted Israel’s supposed humanitarian methods of warfare by pointing to its text messaging of certain Gaza Strip residents urging them to vacate their homes before Israeli forces bombed them. “What other country would do that?â€￾ Schumer shouted from the podium. Gov. David Paterson appeared on stage wearing one of the red hats distributed to demonstrators as symbols of the red alerts some residents of Israel endure when Palestinian groups fire rockets their way. Paterson cited the many Qasam rockets that have fallen on Israel as a justification for the country’s operations in Gaza, a military assault that has resulted in over 800 casualties and thousands of injuries.

Then Paterson highlighted the anti-Semitism that has followed in the wake of Israel’s attack on Gaza, highlighting the beating of a teen-age girl in France. “This kind of anger and hatred spreads like a disease,â€￾ Paterson said, “and one thing I've always pointed out is there's no place for hate in the Empire State.â€￾

But hatred was plentiful at the rally Paterson addressed. Right in front of the stage, a man held a banner reading, “Islam Is A Death Cult.â€￾ Rally attendees described the people of Gaza to me as a “cancer,â€￾ called for Israel to “wipe them all out,â€￾ insisting, “They are forcing us to kill their children in order to defend our own children.â€￾ A young woman told me, “Those who die are suffering God’s wrath.â€￾ “They are not distinguishing between civilians and military, so why should we?â€￾ said a member of the group of messianic Orthodox Jewish Chabad-Lubavitch group that flocked to the rally.

No one I spoke to could seem to find any circumstance in which they would begin to question Israel’s war. No number of civilian deaths, no displays of extreme suffering -- nothing could deter their enthusiasm for attacking one of the most vulnerable populations in the world with the world’s most advanced weaponry. There are no limits, no matter what Israel does, no matter how it does it.

The rally made me think of a passage in “The Holocaust Is Over, We Must Rise From Its Ashes,â€￾ a powerful new book by former Israeli Knesset speaker and Jewish National Fund chairman Avraham Burg:

“If you are a bad person, a whining enemy or a strong-arm occupier, you are not my brother, even if you are circumcised, observe the Sabbath, and do mitzvahs. If your scarf covers every hair on your head for modest, you give alms and do charity, but what is under your scarf is dedicated to the sanctity of Jewish land, taking precedence over the sanctity of human life, whosever life that is, then your are not my sister. You might be my enemy. A good Arab or a righteous gentile will be a brother or sister to me. A wicked man, even of Jewish descent, is my adversary, and I would stand on the other side of the barricade and fight him to the end.â€￾

 

[mulder]

Re: Max Blumenthal Interviews Israel Supporters At Rally In NY.

[youtube:10eltokb]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQJOX4sUq30[/youtube:10eltokb]

 

[The Gardener]

Re: Max Blumenthal Interviews Israel Supporters At Rally In NY.

That's not really intellectually fair.

There are extremist wackos that support EVERY cause and political position.

But, its not logically cogent to smear the entire cause or position just because of what the wackos say.

I mean, would it be fair to take a vid clip of an isolated group of protesting muslims who call for the beheading of all Americans, and then smear the ENTIRE Palestinian cause by saying that ALL who support Palestine support wackos who want to behead everyone?

Well, then I would suggest that its not fair to make the same smear against those who might support Israel's side. Not all who support Israel's side have such extremist beliefs. In fact, its probably a much smaller minority as compared to those on the other side.

As another example, in Israel there are opposition parties allowed in their government institutions that serve as a voice to those who want to take a more conciliatory line with the Palestinians. These issues are an open and honest political debate. The same cannot be said of Hamas or Hizbullah leaders, who since Arafat's death have NEVER ONCE came to the bargaining table without a "going in" debating position that they think Israel should not exist in any form. Given this, which side here is really the more extremist side?

 

[ali777]

Re: DERSHOWITZ: Israel's Policy Is Perfectly 'Proportionate'

The reason why Israel hasn't been able to unseat Hizbullah or Hamas is because the politically correct lefties are forcing them to fight these wars with a hand tied behind their back. You want an example of "disporportionality"?... how about the first Gulf War. I didn't hear anyone whining about how "disporportionate" we were being when trying to get Saddam out of Kuwait.

Until the Palestinians either stop attacking Israel, or until they are willing to come to the negotiating table without their position being one of "NONE of Israel is allowed to exist" then they'll continue suffering.

I think that this Kunstler piece cited below sums it up pretty well. This whole "Israelis are the new Nazis" claim is merely a left wing attempt at being clever.... but in truth, its a bunch of baloney.

http://jameshowardkunstler.typepad.com/ ... tinia.html

Imagine I come to your country and I systematically push you into a very small territory where I control every single aspect of your life. Then you ask for your right of self determination, and I declare to the world that I am giving you "an independent government". In reality, I still control every single aspect of your life and the independent government can only police the territory on my behalf. In effect, the small territory is an open air prison and the government is the prison guard.

Now, call me a lefty, loony, baloney, or whatever you want.

There is no such thing as an independent government in the way you understand independent government, that's a pigment of your imagination because your information sources want you to think that way. Do you actually understand what they are negotiating for?

 

[tembo]

Re: DERSHOWITZ: Israel's Policy Is Perfectly 'Proportionate'

So how come the Muslim world is not saying anything much about the current Taliban Gazaing of Western Pakistan? Or the Arabs doing a Gaza in Darfur?

And why is Turkey not even apologizing for doing a Gaza on Armenia in the past? Or Turkey on doing a Gaza in neighboring regions in decades gone by? Or Muslim plunderers doing a Gaza on India/Pakistan/Bangladesh for centuries, effects of which still haunt those countries?

I could go on giving examples of brutalities in the past and present where most Middle Eastern countries have
had a role, but it seems like the Palestinian cause is the only one that they care about.

Wonder why....I think I know, but we are not allowed to talk about those things on these forums.

 

[SE-freak]

Re: DERSHOWITZ: Israel's Policy Is Perfectly 'Proportionate'

So how come the Muslim world is not saying anything much about the current Taliban Gazaing of Western Pakistan? Or the Arabs doing a Gaza in Darfur?

And why is Turkey not even apologizing for doing a Gaza on Armenia in the past? Or Turkey on doing a Gaza in neighboring regions in decades gone by? Or Muslim plunderers doing a Gaza on India/Pakistan/Bangladesh for centuries, effects of which still haunt those countries?

I could go on giving examples of brutalities in the past and present where most Middle Eastern countries have
had a role, but it seems like the Palestinian cause is the only one that they care about.

Wonder why....I think I know, but we are not allowed to talk about those things on these forums.

So since Turkey has been a brutal dominating nation for centuries we should shut it up for Palestine. Right?

 

[Mr.Bean]

Re: Max Blumenthal Interviews Israel Supporters At Rally In NY.

As another example, in Israel there are opposition parties allowed in their government institutions that serve as a voice to those who want to take a more conciliatory line with the Palestinians. These issues are an open and honest political debate

Israel bans Arab parties from coming election
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090112/...dXDoEV69BvaA8F

 

[Old Baldy]

Re: Max Blumenthal Interviews Israel Supporters At Rally In NY.

One thing is for sure: The Jewish people will NEVER let what happened in WWII happen again. Whether we like their tactics or not, they will NEVER let what happened in WWII happen again. They will go down fighting and will not retreat in their quest to NEVER let what happened in WWII happen again.

When, OH WHEN, will this problem between Arabs and Jews get resolved?