Time To Give Up On Everything

[buckthorn]

This week, I have fully come to terms with the fact that not only is there not a treatment that works for me, but every treatment I try is speeding up my male pattern baldness, DRASTICALLY. Almost five months on RU now. I gently brush my hair over the sink in the morning, and 140 hairs fall out. Like I am f*cking sick or dying. With at most 30% density left on top, this is the mathematical equivalent to a person with full density losing 420 hairs, in ONE morning, after combing.

This makes no f*cking sense. I am only using 5% concentration, along with 5% liquid minoxidil. Why am I literally losing hair like I am undergoing chemotherapy? All my blood levels are good. I eat healthy, work out and try to maintain a positive mindset. I simply do not understand why I am getting f*cking in the a*s so bad by this f*cking disease and it is just starting to piss me off. I have two siblings getting married this year, and if I continue to lose, like I have in the past year, more significantly past six months, I will be bald with no legitimate explanation.

 

[whatevr]

Give it one last try and order some TM30089 from Kane. It's Setipiprant on steroids. You only have to buy it one time and you'll have enough for years as it's used in such a low dose. It has no chance of speeding up your male pattern baldness and at least a decent chance of slowing it down or stopping it.

If you've already tried everything else, why don't you try one more thing?

 

[buckthorn]

Give it one last try and order some TM30089 from Kane. It's Setipiprant on steroids. You only have to buy it one time and you'll have enough for years as it's used in such a low dose. It has no chance of speeding up your male pattern baldness and at least a decent chance of slowing it down or stopping it.

If you've already tried everything else, why don't you try one more thing?

Thanks for the positive advice man. What do you mean exactly, setipiprant on steroids? Does it work through the same mechanism, just stronger? Why have I not heard of this before? Are you using it? Can you just dump it in neogenic and apply? Do you have to mix daily batches? How do you store it?

 

[whatevr]

OK so basically, TM30089 is an analogue of Ramatroban, it's a slightly modified version of it which has been found to bind to and inhibit CRTH2 (PGD2) receptors very strongly, and potentially for a long time. It hasn't been very extensively tested for safety, but based on anecdotal evidence it seems to be side effect free and relatively safe (at least short term).
Basically, it does everything Setipiprant does, but much more effectively, and at a much lower necessary dose, so it is far more economical to use. I think the reason it was shelved in favor of Setipiprant is because Seti had more safety data and was shorter lasting in the body.
The dosing varies between 250-500 mcg and that should be more than enough to completely block all PGD2.

I can find studies to back all this up but I don't have them on hand, would take me some time.

Once Kythera picked up Seti that's where all the hype shifted. I cannot guarantee for sure that TM works, but if TM doesn't work, then Setipiprant sure as hell won't either. So all these folks who are waiting on Kythera, paying big money on groupbuys for Seti and what not... TM is available right now so whoever wants to experiment with the PGD2 angle, well there's your chance to do so economically.

About the mixing, I am no expert, but there is a chemist on the German hair loss forum (Alopezie.de) who doesn't recommend mixing it into minoxidil or Keto. The dudes there use a 70%/30% mixture of ethanol and propylene glycol I believe. Not sure if that is optimal however. I believe they make batches for 20-30 days and keep it in a freezer (again not sure if this is necessary but seems a safe precaution).

Personally I am not using this yet because I plan on jumping on RU first and then when I have some money laying on the side I am gonna order a 500 mg batch and that should be enough for a few years.

 

[transam]

Buckthorn, the ONLY thing you haven't tried yet is becoming a woman....I bet you'd regrow those lovely locs.
Give it a shot

 

[Dench57]

Know that feel brah. It's just bad luck. I'm on dutasteride/RU/Sulfasalazine and it doesn't make the slightest dent in my inflammation/loss/recession. If you don't respond to these drugs then it's game over I'm afraid. As the poster above said, try a CRTH2 antagonist if you haven't already. Would use OC/Seti before you try TM though (TM hasn't been studied in humans).

 

[whatevr]

I'm on dutasteride/RU/Sulfasalazine and it doesn't make the slightest dent in my inflammation/loss/recession.

Wow, that is seriously f***ed. I thought dutasteride+RU was almost guaranteed to stop anyone's hair loss.
What's even left? I wonder if even CPA could stop it. Cases like this make me wonder if it's possible to have Androgenetic Alopecia from something other than androgens.

finasteride doesn't work for me, so I am adding RU. If that fails, I will have go to dutasteride as well, and if that fails, I'll also throw in TM, and if I can't maintain on any of that FFS, I'll just lop my balls off because I was clearly not meant to be male with these genes.

 

[Dench57]

Wow, that is seriously f***ed. I thought dutasteride+RU was almost guaranteed to stop anyone's hair loss.
What's even left? I wonder if even CPA could stop it. Cases like this make me wonder if it's possible to have Androgenetic Alopecia from something other than androgens.

finasteride doesn't work for me, so I am adding RU. If that fails, I will have go to dutasteride as well, and if that fails, I'll also throw in TM, and if I can't maintain on any of that FFS, I'll just lop my balls off because I was clearly not meant to be male with these genes.

I've tried it all man. CRTH2 antagonists in particular (OC,Seti, TM) only work in 2/3rds of the population due to genetics. We see this in smaller percentage for Finasteride also. For most people, dutasteride+RU should be enough. People in the hair loss community will say that those two together will halt Androgenetic Alopecia. But it completely depends on the individuals response to these drugs. I'm guessing a lot of it is genetic and comes down to phenotype variations, as we can see with studies on Finasteride and Setipiprant. dutasteride may also be a stronger 5AR inhibitor but it will also work for more genetic variations. But there will still be a select few that don't respond at all - to any hairloss drug.

Of course, you can go down the spironolactone/CypA road. Maybe even topical Enzalutamide rather than RU. But that's the point where you are pretty much guaranteed feminizing/anti-androgen side effects. Then you truly have to question whether you value your hair above your health.

 

[Roberto_72]

dutasteride may also be a stronger 5AR inhibitor but it will also work for more genetic variations. But there will still be a select few that don't respond at all - to any hairloss drug.

Not to mention that a derm can't write you a prescription for dutasteride to fill at the local pharmacy at €0.20 a pill as he does for finasteride.

 

[Roberto_72]

I will be bald with no legitimate explanation.

Sorry to read this, @buckthorn. I feel you. It's hard not to feel you're doing something wrong when your body drives against you; this I know very well. But it's not your fault, at least concede yourself that.

 

[buckthorn]

Sorry to read this, @buckthorn. I feel you. It's hard not to feel you're doing something wrong when your body drives against you; this I know very well. But it's not your fault, at least concede yourself that.

indeed, I do Roberto. I don't blame myself. You can't really blame anyone, unless you want to become miserable and continually blame some God, however, we know that will lead nowhere. haha. I just started legit dutasteride from Murray Ave. .5mg/day, four days ago. I don't know if I should stay on it though. I mean, if one really has a rapid progression of Androgenetic Alopecia on finasteride, then logically, at least in my case, dutasteride should probably f*ck you even worst? I don't know. I was doing o.k. on just 5% minoxidil, losing it, but not nearly as fast. I would be content with JUST using minoxidil, however, I feel that finasteride has permanently sent my testosterone into overdrive. I have been off for five months now, and my libido is still notably higher than normal.

 

[Roberto_72]

I would be content with JUST using minoxidil, however,

Who wouldn't? Minoxidil is one thing. finasteride and dutasteride are totally different beasts.
I made this mistake of giving up finasteride, though, and my derm literally forced me to go back to it. Maybe dutasteride is your thing in the end.

Oh, BTW: my father uses Avodart for REAL prostate enlargement and I never heard him say "well this drugs is dangerous". He's curing a symptom. I have a feeling that, when we the side effects of hairloss drugs are evaluated, we are all biased by the fact our disease is not considered as a "real" disease by the medical community, is it?

 

[Afro_Vacancy]

Give it one last try and order some TM30089 from Kane. It's Setipiprant on steroids. You only have to buy it one time and you'll have enough for years as it's used in such a low dose. It has no chance of speeding up your male pattern baldness and at least a decent chance of slowing it down or stopping it.

If you've already tried everything else, why don't you try one more thing?

The Kermit the Frog guy who used to post as Hairloss23, that this forum misses dearly as he was one of the sharpest minds here, was advocating against TM30089 if I recall correctly. He said it had a half-life of 13 years and had bad side effects

 

[kir]

I always say if my treatments stop working my last resort is oral flutamide or Bicalutamide. I hope I never have to resort to those.

 

[buckthorn]

I always say if my treatments stop working my last resort is oral flutamide or Bicalutamide. I hope I never have to resort to those.

oh man... that sure is risky as all hell. Even if oral flutamide stopped hair loss, you would be living in a different kind of hell, no?

 

[Afro_Vacancy]

That's too bad I'll miss your posts.

I think you should try OC or seti, or at least wait for Brotzu's formula to come out in 6 months.

 

[WangMQ]

That's too bad I'll miss your posts.

I think you should try OC or seti, or at least wait for Brotzu's formula to come out in 6 months.

I think in six months we'll just get the news that the formula's release has been delayed, just like every other new treatment storyAnd this is even when supposing it will work at all.

 

[whatevr]

The Kermit the Frog guy who used to post as Hairloss23, that this forum misses dearly as he was one of the sharpest minds here, was advocating against TM30089 if I recall correctly. He said it had a half-life of 13 years and had bad side effects

This is false. No side effects have been reported yet and there are at least 5 people on the German forums who are using it.

I also know where he pulled the 13 years number from, and it doesn't mean what he thinks it means.

http://www.rsc.org/images/Rick_Roberts_tcm18-240088.pdf

It says there that it has a dissociation half life of 13 years (calculated, obviously not tested). This does not mean that it courses around the body for 13 years, that would be the plasma half life which for TM is less than 24 hours. The 13 years value refers to how long TM would stay bound to the PGD2 receptors if they never renewed themselves, which they do, probably on a basis of every 2 weeks or so.

You can see the same thing for Finasteride, here (Table 2):
http://isites.harvard.edu/fs/docs/icb.topic1178641.files/L4 Example Papers/L4_ResidenceTime.pdf

It's plasma half-life is only several hours yet the receptor binding lasts >43 and 20 days, type 1 and type 2 enzymes respectively. Yet we know that a single dose of Finasteride tapers off its DHT inhibition after about 3 days, as by that point the 5-AR enzyme has renewed.

 

[Afro_Vacancy]

OK, good posting man.

Why aren't more people using this then?

 

[whatevr]

I'm not entirely sure, perhaps because it is not as well known and hasn't been as hyped as Setipiprant?

I can't really vouch for its efficiency as I haven't yet used it personally. But my belief is that if the PGD2 theory has any merit, then TM should definitely be able to inhibit it sufficiently to stop hair loss via that pathway. If TM can't, then I do not hold much hope for Seti either.