Topical Finaateide Or Topical Dht Inhibitor

[Badbald]

Remember there was also that somewhat pointless Phase lll from Admirall earlier this year testing their liposomal Finasteride this is actually set to seek approval in Q4 of this year, if that was the case it would have to wait around 2 months for it to be approved so we could be looking at a new form of topical finasteride available( my source is hairlosscure 2020 though so I suppose a grain of salt should be pinched) . We are still non the wiser about its side effects though as Serum T and DHT were never tested.... but we may at least have something we can trial ourselves by next year.

Hairloss cure 2020:-

"
Update: June 6, 2019
It seems like P-3074 will be called ALM12845 when finally released. Per Almirall’s first quarter 2019 filings:

“The top-line Phase III results for ALM12845 (androgenic alopecia) in the EU show statistical significance for the primary end-point (Change of Target Area Hair Count) at week 24. We expect the submission in Europe of ALM12845 in Q4 2019.”

My guess is that a “submission” in Europe means the same as in the US: i.e., the company is filing for approval to sell the new drug after successful Phase 3 trial completion."

 

[ZP31]

Remember there was also that somewhat pointless Phase lll from Admirall earlier this year testing their liposomal Finasteride this is actually set to seek approval in Q4 of this year, if that was the case it would have to wait around 2 months for it to be approved so we could be looking at a new form of topical finasteride available( my source is hairlosscure 2020 though so I suppose a grain of salt should be pinched) . We are still non the wiser about its side effects though as Serum T and DHT were never tested.... but we may at least have something we can trial ourselves by next year.

Hairloss cure 2020:-

"
Update: June 6, 2019
It seems like P-3074 will be called ALM12845 when finally released. Per Almirall’s first quarter 2019 filings:

“The top-line Phase III results for ALM12845 (androgenic alopecia) in the EU show statistical significance for the primary end-point (Change of Target Area Hair Count) at week 24. We expect the submission in Europe of ALM12845 in Q4 2019.”

My guess is that a “submission” in Europe means the same as in the US: i.e., the company is filing for approval to sell the new drug after successful Phase 3 trial completion."

You don’t have to wait for this to try it.

You can get ahold of pharmacies near you that may be able to compound the topical for you. It wouldn’t be (and mine isn’t either) FDA approved, but you could trial it and at least know how your body responds.

 

[Badbald]

You don’t have to wait for this to try it.

You can get ahold of pharmacies near you that may be able to compound the topical for you. It wouldn’t be (and mine isn’t either) FDA approved, but you could trial it and at least know how your body responds.

True although it won't have the same liposomal formulation as this I suspect it would be quite similar in results

 

[Michael1986]

But we also don't know how much oral finasteride reduces DHT in the dermal papillae right?

That is the million dollar question! I'm not aware of any studies done on this, but if anyone on here knows of one, it would be great if you could post a link to it? Presumably finasteride must remove the large majority of the DHT in the dermal papillae though, because what we know is that finasteride does work very well as a hair loss treatment. But it would be good to have a study done on this, and a similar study for dutasteride too.

 

[Pancreata]

You are correct about oral finasteride being more effective and having more research behind it.

You are completely wrong about everything else.

Studies have shown that the topical has a lower reduction of Serum DHT while significantly reducing scalp DHT.

Side effects are of course still possible but they are certainly less likely.

Biochemist here. I am sorry but it is you that is completely wrong. Topical FN suppresses systemic DHT as strongly as 1 mg oral FN. Only when you reduce the 0.25% topical to 0.1ml in volume which is a 0.25 mg dose, do you see less reductions in systemic DHT. The original studies of FN showed at at dose of less than 1mg only ~30% of subjects had halting of hair loss. Anyone who thinks topicals do not go systemic are deluding themselves. They do directly through mucosal microvasculature and by cellular and paracellular export into the blood.

Here is a review paper on this topic.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6609098/

 

[Ilia]

Biochemist here. I am sorry but it is you that is completely wrong. Topical FN suppresses systemic DHT as strongly as 1 mg oral FN. Only when you reduce the 0.25% topical to 0.1ml in volume which is a 0.25 mg dose, do you see less reductions in systemic DHT. The original studies of FN showed at at dose of less than 1mg only ~30% of subjects had halting of hair loss. Anyone who thinks topicals do not go systemic are deluding themselves. They do directly through mucosal microvasculature and by cellular and paracellular export into the blood.

Here is a review paper on this topic.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6609098/

thanks, that's why i lost morning wood even after 1-2 applications of topical finasteride from italy-p-3074.....so You think oral finasteride will be more effective then topical?

 

[ZP31]

Biochemist here. I am sorry but it is you that is completely wrong. Topical FN suppresses systemic DHT as strongly as 1 mg oral FN. Only when you reduce the 0.25% topical to 0.1ml in volume which is a 0.25 mg dose, do you see less reductions in systemic DHT. The original studies of FN showed at at dose of less than 1mg only ~30% of subjects had halting of hair loss. Anyone who thinks topicals do not go systemic are deluding themselves. They do directly through mucosal microvasculature and by cellular and paracellular export into the blood.

Here is a review paper on this topic.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6609098/

I take 1 ml at 2.5 % every 3 days. So far it has not caused any side effects, whereas 1mg oral daily gave me side effects in 3 weeks. I’ll be upping to EOD within a month or two.

 

[barfacan]

That is the million dollar question! I'm not aware of any studies done on this, but if anyone on here knows of one, it would be great if you could post a link to it? Presumably finasteride must remove the large majority of the DHT in the dermal papillae though, because what we know is that finasteride does work very well as a hair loss treatment. But it would be good to have a study done on this, and a similar study for dutasteride too.

I think even if you were able to effectively target the DP with a finasteride delivery vehicle it still wouldnt prevent systemic DHT in circulation from finding its way to the DP receptor. What we need is an androgen receptor antagonist which only acts locally on the DP.

 

[badhabiz]

There are alot of topical fina on the market.
He just picked the wrong one.
Mazzarella proved to be safer and way more effective than 30%
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.3109/09546639709160517
They stopped clinic trials of it because the very next year came out propecia with all its promise and no one bothered anymore.

 

[Pancreata]

thanks, that's why i lost morning wood even after 1-2 applications of topical finasteride from italy-p-3074.....so You think oral finasteride will be more effective then topical?

In theory topicals should be superior oral route for exposure and uptake by target cells, but this would need to be tested side by side in the case of FN. In the end what matters more than route is efficacy weighed against sides - feminization is a real issue for some men and there is data in older men suggesting that even with stopping oral FN some sexual sides reman. We play with hormones at our own risk for vanity.

 

[tomJ]

Biochemist here. I am sorry but it is you that is completely wrong. Topical FN suppresses systemic DHT as strongly as 1 mg oral FN. Only when you reduce the 0.25% topical to 0.1ml in volume which is a 0.25 mg dose, do you see less reductions in systemic DHT. The original studies of FN showed at at dose of less than 1mg only ~30% of subjects had halting of hair loss. Anyone who thinks topicals do not go systemic are deluding themselves. They do directly through mucosal microvasculature and by cellular and paracellular export into the blood.

Here is a review paper on this topic.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6609098/

Thanks for chiming in. Need more science guys here, not broscience.

 

[badhabiz]

The problem (in layman’s terms as was explained to me) is that the vehicle for topical minoxidil works against you by allowing the topical finasteride to more easily penetrate the bloodstream.

Dr Wong recommends no minoxidil be taken with topical finasteride.

thats a very wise suggestion

 

[Jimmerson]

Biochemist here. I am sorry but it is you that is completely wrong. Topical FN suppresses systemic DHT as strongly as 1 mg oral FN. Only when you reduce the 0.25% topical to 0.1ml in volume which is a 0.25 mg dose, do you see less reductions in systemic DHT. The original studies of FN showed at at dose of less than 1mg only ~30% of subjects had halting of hair loss. Anyone who thinks topicals do not go systemic are deluding themselves. They do directly through mucosal microvasculature and by cellular and paracellular export into the blood.

Here is a review paper on this topic.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6609098/

Did you even read the paper? There is lots of evidence for topical finasteride not going systemic, it's dose dependent. Of course serum dht levels will need to decrease if you inhibit 5ar2 in the scalp, but not the 70% seen with systemic. Tissue dht is the real concern, and if approriate dosage of topical finasteride doesn't cause 5ar2 inhibtion in your genitals it stands to reason the side effects can be avoided.

 

[paul1988]

thanks, that's why i lost morning wood even after 1-2 applications of topical finasteride from italy-p-3074.....so You think oral finasteride will be more effective then topical?

Loss of erections after one topical finasteride application......LOL

 

[WeStayCooling]

Thanks for chiming in. Need more science guys here, not broscience.

LOL

PHD here and you're full of sh*t

 

[tomJ]

LOL

PHD here and you're full of sh*t

Huh? Why am I full of sh*t?

 

[ruffledfeathers]

I'm confused why topical finasteride is still being researched? We've all seen this dosing response curve for a while now.

Even if 0.03mg of finasteride hits the bloodstream after being absorbed topically, the systemic DHT effects will equivalent to that of oral 1mg finasteride. This is the same principal behind why micro-dosing finasteride isn't really worth it either. There seems to be pretty much no way to localize finasteride effects without nuking your serum DHT.

 

[badhabiz]

I'm confused why topical finasteride is still being researched? We've all seen this dosing response curve for a while now.
View attachment 130352
Even if 0.03mg of finasteride hits the bloodstream after being absorbed topically, the systemic DHT effects will equivalent to that of oral 1mg finasteride. This is the same principal behind why micro-dosing finasteride isn't really worth it either. There seems to be pretty much no way to localize finasteride effects without nuking your serum DHT.

Because there are topicals at 0,005% like Mazzarella that have a study behind them with no sides,and because there are several different vehicles that can be used with different absorption rates (even topical fenugreek or zinc lower dht serum in some cases but at a rate you cant experience )
We dont know that much of topical fina because one day mercks launched its product and everyone jumped on it (because of the information we had at the time )

 

[ZP31]

I’ve increased my application of 2.5% topical liposomal finasteride (25mg/ml) to once EOD.

Still no sides! Really liking this stuff.

 

[StudyHacks]

I’ve increased my application of 2.5% topical liposomal finasteride (25mg/ml) to once EOD.

Still no sides! Really liking this stuff.

Hi can you tell me where you get liposomal finasteride from please? Where can I purchase it?