Topical flutamide don't work

[Bryan]

Only type 1 of 5ar is generated by the follicles in the scalp. Type 2 is generated by the rest of the body (adrenal glands, testes etc) but is found in the scalp but not as much as type 1.

I bring to your attention the following study:

Arch Dermatol Res. 1999 Feb-Mar;291(2-3):100-3.
"Finasteride is the main inhibitor of 5alpha-reductase activity in microdissected dermal papillae of human hair follicles"
Hoffmann R, Happle R.
Department of Dermatology, Philipp University, Marburg, Germany.

They found that even as little as 10 nM of finasteride (a specific type 2 inhibitor) completely suppressed the formation of DHT in human hair follicle dermal papillae, whereas MK386 (a specific type 1 inhibitor) had no clear effect at all. While it's still uncertain about the rest of the hair follicle, it seems very likely that the all-important dermal papilla (the "control center" of the follicle) contains almost exclusively the type 2 enzyme.

 

[follicle84]

Okay so the hair follicles in the scalp produce its own type 2 of 5ar possibly more than type 1. I know type one is the only one of the two enzymes found to have some sort of role in the brain but according to this article which i cant get full access to (damn). Type of 1 of 5ar is produced in the skin, which would mean the scalp also. So im taking it both enzymes are present in the scalp.

http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/120704649/abstract

 

[Bryan]

I don't know why people are so obsessed with "the scalp". Even though it does contain our hair follicles, it also contains a load of sebaceous glands, sweat glands, and other structures, each with their own means of turning testosterone into DHT and metabolizing other androgens. But I think we should concern ourselves mainly with what happens inside the hair follicles, and let the rest of "the scalp" do their own things.

 

[Bryan]

BTW, here's the actual paragraph from Happle & Hoffman about their results (DP = dermal papillae):

"Our results showed that even 10 nM of finasteride completely inhibited 5AR activity in all DP investigated. These results were reproducible in all experiments. MK-386 (maximum concentration 1 micro-mol/l), however, did not consistently inhibit or increase 5AR in DP. In fact, for MK-386 no clear dose-response relationship was apparent."

Cool, huh?

 

[striker9]

wow i'm a bit confused.

so using anti-dht in the scalp doesn't make anything good?

And there is any anti-dht topic proven?

I mean internally we already have finasteride.

 

[follicle84]

spironolactone is proven to reduce dht binding at the receptors in the skin topically. Its assumed it may be effective for hairloss but this is of course depending on how much dht is prevented from binding to the scalps receptor points.

http://www.cemproducts.com/tosp5.html

I think what Bryan's trying to tell us is that the main root of the problem can only truly be dealt with internally. We might be risking harming our scalps trying to deal with this problem externally (topically) for the sake of little results. Although i believe this i still prefer topicals (less sides).

 

[Bryan]

wow i'm a bit confused.

so using anti-dht in the scalp doesn't make anything good?

Sure it does, if you can find one that actually works topically as a 5a-reductase inhibitor.

 

[Bryan]

I think what Bryan's trying to tell us is that the main root of the problem can only truly be dealt with internally. We might be risking harming our scalps trying to deal with this problem externally (topically) for the sake of little results. Although i believe this i still prefer topicals (less sides).

Oh, I definitely prefer the topical approach, too! While it's difficult and expensive to get antiandrogens and 5a-reductase inhibitors that work well topically, in principle I believe it can be done.

 

[Lopfraze]

I think what Bryan's trying to tell us is that the main root of the problem can only truly be dealt with internally. We might be risking harming our scalps trying to deal with this problem externally (topically) for the sake of little results. Although i believe this i still prefer topicals (less sides).

Oh, I definitely prefer the topical approach, too! While it's difficult and expensive to get antiandrogens and 5a-reductase inhibitors that work well topically, in principle I believe it can be done.

So what topicals would you recommend???

 

[Bryan]

So what topicals would you recommend???

I hope you can see why your question is slightly ambiguous to me. But to give you a simple, direct answer: it's no secret that I really like Dr. Proctor's products: Prox-N, Proxiphen, NANO shampoo, etc. I'd also recommend the copper-peptide products like Tricomin and Folligen. Same for topical minoxidil (keep in mind its limitation). Retin-A may be helpful, too, and topical spironolactone.

 

[striker9]

http://www.baldingblog.com/2008/04/04/d ... proxiphen/

so bryan ony dr. proctor works?

"While it's difficult and expensive to get antiandrogens and 5a-reductase inhibitors that work well topically, in principle I believe it can be done."

Or there is any other good product for this?

 

[striker9]

????

 

[striker9]

??

 

[Rework24]

I've ordered 6 months of genhairs 2% flut on its own. Will post results

 

[follicle84]

Bryan saw a little regrowth at the crown using doctors P's products. The interesting thing is these products he used had neither finasteride or minoxidil in them and are side effect free i believe. This is pretty impressive considering the hype we have about anti androgens such as spironolactone, flutimide, finasteride, dutas and stimulants like minoxidil all of which have side effects. I think it might be worth looking into as safe and possibly effective alternative.

 

[striker9]

little regrowght?

Only using his products?

I was looking more to a better treatment or complementary, not alternative.

 

[follicle84]

There seems to be some possitivity coming through about the new product hair signals. I just ordered some. Im going to use it alongside with minoxidil and nizoral. You could try that.

 

[striker9]

But what proctor products have in them?

hair signals look like just like tricomin....

But what a really good anti-dht topical that has studies, doesn't exist?

 

[striker9]

???????

 

[striker9]

?????