Topical Zinc Thymulin For The Treatments Of Androgenetic Alopecia

[SkinDiesel]

It is stated in the study itself, at least two of them on minoxidil and 1 on finasteride

How many participants in the trial?

 

[akephalos]

How many participants in the trial?

Only 18, btw this is the link to the study found by Georgie : https://www.omicsonline.org/open-ac...a-2167-0951-1000147.php?aid=84784&view=mobile

 

[disfiguredyoungman]

It is stated in the study itself, at least two of them on minoxidil and 1 on finasteride

The agerange of the three people who are on stuff is 44, 49 and 64 , so we know that at least all photographed subjects with an age attached to them are clean, except for the 44 year old male who might be on finasteride and minoxidil.

What is weird, is that the numbering of the subjects is inconsistent. The 90 year old man is subject number 6 in the pictures and subject number 13 in the dataset.

That's another question we could ask the doctor.

 

[SkinDiesel]

Only 18, btw this is the link to the study found by Georgie : https://www.omicsonline.org/open-ac...a-2167-0951-1000147.php?aid=84784&view=mobile

Thanks pal

 

[disfiguredyoungman]

I read through this study and there are some serious flies in the ointment, I want people to be aware of.

There was NO, I repeat no statistical significance for hair growth to be found in the original test group. Only after reducing the group to 10 out of of originally 18 people (to the ones who took it longer than 6 months), could a relatively small statistical significance with a p-value of 0.045 be esthablished.

This number is further warped by the inclusion of two minoxidil and finasteride users in the second group of only 10 people. So 20% in the second group were on other meds as well and might have heavily skewered the extent of statistical significance.

Aaaand the numbering is inconsistent again, patient 10 and 11 are both said to be only 5 months on ZT, but one shows up in the second 6months+ group. Likewise patient 8 was 6 months part of the programme, but does not show up in the reduced group for unknown reasons.

Furthermore the score for hair density is not only reliant on HGI analysis but also but raw assessment, so just eyeballing it, something which could be easily tweaked by one of the two assessors to reach a relatively low p-value.

Even then, the only increase that was proven with sufficient significance, was the increase of intermediate hair, no terminal or vellus hair seemed to have improved in a statistical significant way.

There's a serious chance that the researcher might have tinkered with the numbers just enough to reach statistical significance for the desired result.

I am not calling it a scam yet, but there are some serious drawbacks to this study, that should be considered by all members before buying anything. It's most certainly a hit or miss treatment at best, working good on some, but being ineffectual on most.

 

[disfiguredyoungman]

Something else I noticed, which makes me kinda sad.

The supposed regrowth in the old man is vastly overstated, by the individual's unusual balding pattern.
We are looking at a patch in a green circle and are made to believe, that this is where the serum was applied restrictively (even though that's not stated anywhere), but in actuality the same old man has the same dislocated patch of hair on the other side of his face even before treatment.



I really wanted this to work, but it's not looking great. Unless you are extremely desperate wait for the treatment until others can share their experience, it might very well be a quick money grab for very minor and inconsistent results, that's my impression.

 

[AnArcticTaco]

Something else I noticed, which makes me kinda sad.

The supposed regrowth in the old man is vastly overstated, by the individual's unusual balding pattern.
We are looking at a patch in a green circle and are made to believe, that this is where the serum was applied restrictively (even though that's not stated anywhere), but in actuality the same old man has the same dislocated patch of hair on the other side of his face even before treatment.

View attachment 91114

I really wanted this to work, but it's not looking great. Unless you are extremely desperate wait for the treatment until others can share their experience, it might very well be a quick money grab for very minor and inconsistent results, that's my impression.

well at least the Italian Hair Loss lotion is set to hit the market in 2016

 

[BaldAsshole]

It is looking really bad.

 

[Falsenine]

If people stopped trying to sell us fake sh*t and put in actual effort to treat hair loss, I’m sure we would have the cure by now.

 

[disfiguredyoungman]

It is looking really bad.

Don't take my word for it just consider all the information in a sceptical way including mine. I am no doctor, just an academic of sorts using my knowledge of statistics, some critical thinking and common sense really...

After all put the other pictures under scrutiny as well and it doesn't look great in my opinion. Of the other people from which we know that they have not taken minoxidil or finasteride based on their age, the results are often dodgy potentially altered with lightning, different hair lengths and angles.

E: picture is cropped, I have to upload it somewhere else

https://imgur.com/a/k5IWdfp

 

[lenuam]

Interesting. I'd love to see how Dr Vickers responds to these observations. After all, he seems like a very reputable medical professional and assuming he has a rather high income already, I don't quite see why someone like him would spend so much time and effort into developing and selling a scam product.

 

[DAVAT]

Interesting. I'd love to see how Dr Vickers responds to these observations. After all, he seems like a very reputable medical professional and assuming he has a rather high income already, I don't quite see why someone like him would spend so much time and effort into developing and selling a scam product.

Probably because he knows that either way this will get NO mainstream coverage, most people will be buying this unaware of sites like this so it's only a handful of people on here that will flag it as a scam if it is one, nobody else has a clue whilst he can still make a decent amount of money off unknowledgeable people looking for a cure and his reputation will be unaffected. it's being billed as an "experimental treatment" no doubt so either way he looks good for being at the cutting edge of attempting to cure something.

 

[disfiguredyoungman]

Well he had to put time and effort into the trials whether they show the desirable result or not, let's give him the benefit of a doubt and say that he had good intentions from the get go. He clearly looked for a way to make it work numerically after the trials were conducted in my eyes though, And the pictures are also misleading. if this was reallly his own private vanity project maybe he didn't want to admit to himself that it failed and is looking for a way to get a return on the expenditure.
Or it's because he is Australian and Aussies are infamous internet trolls.

Be it as it may, he is not really risking his reputation here, since he did not openly manipulate data as far as we know. The inconsistency of the patient numbers is quite irritating though.

 

[disfiguredyoungman]

Another thing with the 90 year old male, at 5 months he has basically the same bald look crown look than at the beginning of the tests, but at the 6 month mark he has a 'full' head of old man hair, which appears completely white out of a sudden, even though the lotion is supposed to pigment your hair.

I think we can attribute this to overexposure as well, fml. The composition of these pictures seems quite intentional. Never trust Australians.

 

[nohairnolife]

Another thing with the 90 year old male, at 5 months he has basically the same bald look crown look than at the beginning of the tests, but at the 6 month mark he has a 'full' head of old man hair, which appears completely white out of a sudden, even though the lotion is supposed to pigment your hair.

I think we can attribute this to overexposure as well, fml. The composition of these pictures seems quite intentional. Never trust Australians.

Honestly you can see in the photo a lot of the "new" hair in the front of his head was there before, but the lighting is deliberately done from the opposite side in the second photo to make it stand out more. Textbook stuff

 

[ZenHead]

I understand the skepticism about the photos, but take into account that some of those “after” photos were taken at home, not by the doctor himself. They probably just sent them in to update their progress via email. Another thing to take into account that the average age of these patients was somewhere around 60 years old - and they had been experiencing hair loss for a decade or more. Not even dutasterise or castration drugs can bring back that hair in most cases. When the scalp becomes fibrotic and the blood vessels calcify, there is no way (that we know of) to bring back those follicles. I’m just excited to see what this will do for someone in the first stages of hair loss. Many of you might think this is a scam, but I don’t. He never claimed full regrowth. He also said many patients get frustrated and didnt use it long enough to see results - regrowth takes a long time. Even finasteride usually takes about 8-12 months for significant results.

 

[nohairnolife]

I understand the skepticism about the photos, but take into account that some of those “after” photos were taken at home, not by the doctor himself. They probably just sent them in to update their progress via email. Another thing to take into account that the average age of these patients was somewhere around 60 years old - and they had been experiencing hair loss for a decade or more. Not even dutasterise or castration drugs can bring back that hair in most cases. When the scalp becomes fibrotic and the blood vessels calcify, there is no way (that we know of) to bring back those follicles. I’m just excited to see what this will do for someone in the first stages of hair loss. Many of you might think this is a scam, but I don’t. He never claimed full regrowth. He also said many patients get frustrated and didnt use it long enough to see results - regrowth takes a long time. Even finasteride usually takes about 8-12 months for significant results.

I wouldn't tell you not to try it, I think it's great that you're doing it. But I do see some of the typical marketing stuff in how they presented it. Still, every company does that

 

[disfiguredyoungman]

The photo techniques used to overstate the results are very deliberate. He never promised a full head of hair, but even his trials with the second group barely show any statistically significant regrowth at all and that is with the inclusion of two people who are on other hair growth stimulants.

The whole communication is more of a sales pitch than anything else, these drops in price and the behaviour of some members. Very fishy.

I would advise anyone against buying this stuff, until a reputable member of this forum ran a trial.

 

[INT]

I read through this study and there are some serious flies in the ointment, I want people to be aware of.

There was NO, I repeat no statistical significance for hair growth to be found in the original test group. Only after reducing the group to 10 out of of originally 18 people (to the ones who took it longer than 6 months), could a relatively small statistical significance with a p-value of 0.045 be esthablished.

This number is further warped by the inclusion of two minoxidil and finasteride users in the second group of only 10 people. So 20% in the second group were on other meds as well and might have heavily skewered the extent of statistical significance.

Aaaand the numbering is inconsistent again, patient 10 and 11 are both said to be only 5 months on ZT, but one shows up in the second 6months+ group. Likewise patient 8 was 6 months part of the programme, but does not show up in the reduced group for unknown reasons.

Furthermore the score for hair density is not only reliant on HGI analysis but also but raw assessment, so just eyeballing it, something which could be easily tweaked by one of the two assessors to reach a relatively low p-value.

Even then, the only increase that was proven with sufficient significance, was the increase of intermediate hair, no terminal or vellus hair seemed to have improved in a statistical significant way.

There's a serious chance that the researcher might have tinkered with the numbers just enough to reach statistical significance for the desired result.

I am not calling it a scam yet, but there are some serious drawbacks to this study, that should be considered by all members before buying anything. It's most certainly a hit or miss treatment at best, working good on some, but being ineffectual on most.

Critical thinking vs false hope junkies: 1-0

 

[ZenHead]

The photo techniques used to overstate the results are very deliberate. He never promised a full head of hair, but even his trials with the second group barely show any statistically significant regrowth at all and that is with the inclusion of two people who are on other hair growth stimulants.

The whole communication is more of a sales pitch than anything else, these drops in price and the behaviour of some members. Very fishy.

I would advise anyone against buying this stuff, until a reputable member of this forum ran a trial.

so... you think I'm a shill. I'll stay quiet then. Good luck.