Topical Zinc Thymulin For The Treatments Of Androgenetic Alopecia

[ZenHead]

Thanks for tagging me on this. This is really cool looking stuff. Thanks @Georgie for the great find.

This stuff should be incredibly easy to have made up and very cheap too. The original article made synthesis seem more complicated than it needs to be because they were synthesizing their thymulin from scratch. In actual fact, thymulin appears to be plentiful and cheap on Alibaba (CAS #63958-90-7):

https://www.alibaba.com/trade/search?fsb=y&IndexArea=product_en&CatId=&SearchText=63958-90-7

Once you already have thymulin, lab synthesis of zinc-thymulin is incredibly simply:

1) Attach zinc ion to thymulin by mixing thymulin with zinc oxide (1:3 w/w) in 10% acetic acid (ie. vinegar).
2) Lyophilize (freeze dry) to yield zinc-thymulin.

That's literally it. This stuff should therefore be incredibly easy for any lab to produce and not expensive at all either.

From raw zinc-thymulin powder, you then would have the following steps to produce a solution matching theirs:

1) Dissolve ZT in distilled water with preservatives benzoic acid, sodium benzoate and potassium sorbate - In honesty any preservative could be used here. Lotioncrafter and making cosmetics sell plenty. eg. Optiphen. Just a drop would probably be needed. Or adding 5% or more of ethanol to most solutions works well as a preservative. I doubt alcohol would react with the zinc-thymulin but this would need to be confirmed first. Will post on a chem site to ask.

2) Add citric acid and sodium bicarbonate as buffers to result in a colorless and odorless solution at pH 5.4 - This would be very slightly trickier as you would have to figure out the right amount of each to add to get to this pH, but this honestly wouldn't be hard either. Citric acid is easy to buy and so is sodium bicarbonate (ie. baking soda). pH test strips are cheap and easy to buy also.

Their final result was that they created: "a 100 ml spray bottle containing 0.0005% ZT as the active test agent. Subjects were instructed to spray 1-2 ml of solution, twice daily, and rub into the scalp. Subjects were resupplied with fresh solutions every 6-8 weeks during the trial."

This is an incredibly tiny amount of ZT applied daily. Their concentration suggests only 0.5 mg of ZT is needed in 100 mL of water to make the composition. It would honestly be hard to even measure out this tiny amount. Probably the best way would be to mix 1 litre at a time with 5 mg added to even come close to the correct solution concentration.

I typically have mixed my topical solutions with 20% water. To get the same concentration of ZT into my existing topical, I figure I could add 5 mg ZT to 200 mL water (ie. 5x their concentration), buffer this if needed, and then use that solution as the "water" that I put into my topical base. This would result in a final topical solution concentration again of 0.0005%. It would also avoid requiring any sort of preservative, as I use 20-30% alcohol in my standard topicals, and that works as a perfect preservative already.

This has definitely piqued my interest. I've emailed Luo to see how much he would charge per gram for synthesis of this stuff. If his price is very bad, I'll try someone else. It should be relatively cheap. Like I said, all they have to do is get the thymulin premade from another neighboring factory, test it to confirm structure, add to zinc oxide in vinegar, and then freeze dry it.

Could be a good new growth stimulant. I've always wanted a good peptide in my hair formulations. I also would like the idea of zinc given that we have some people that claim good results with it. This could be good for providing both.

Knew I could count on you for answer like this, truly impressive. Thanks for the response. If you could let us know what Luo says that would be really helpful, I think a lot of us here would try it and log our results.

 

[Retinoid]

Definitely seems like it holds promise as a growth stimulator/another tool to use. The cost is prohibitive to try it out however. Would be akin to spending $1,500 dollars for a year's worth of slightly more effective minoxidil.

 

[Murkey Thumb]

I've just read that the test subjects were also taking minoxidil and finasteride. So i guess that is me out!

 

[Retinoid]

I've just read that the test subjects were also taking minoxidil and finasteride. So i guess that is me out!

2 were using Minoxidil and 1 Finasteride out of I believe 18.

The consultation is most likely to evaluate if using their stem cells/micro fat grafting would be helpful in addition to the solution as I saw an article on Bloomberg saying they were also utilizing this approach which is certainly interesting...better than just seeing hormone blockers...

 

[Murkey Thumb]

2 were using Minoxidil and 1 Finasteride out of I believe 18.

The consultation is most likely to evaluate if using their stem cells/micro fat grafting would be helpful in addition to the solution as I saw an article on Bloomberg saying they were also utilizing this approach which is certainly interesting...better than just seeing hormone blockers...

"The study also showed that ZT initiated anagen in Androgenetic Alopecia subjects with Norwood-Hamilton classification 5-7. Moreover, several subjects were concurrently using finasteride and minoxidil with no evidence of adverse drug interactions with ZT." That is several out of 18 and they had a 65% success rate so that only about 11 of them. I guess that this is helping when used with existing treatments not too much when used alone.

 

[Retinoid]

"The study also showed that ZT initiated anagen in Androgenetic Alopecia subjects with Norwood-Hamilton classification 5-7. Moreover, several subjects were concurrently using finasteride and minoxidil with no evidence of adverse drug interactions with ZT." That is several out of 18 and they had a 65% success rate so that only about 11 of them. I guess that this is helping when used with existing treatments not too much when used alone.

Right however we know that Minoxidil probably would not do nearly as much as this did for a bald 90yr old and Finasteride is not great at regrowing tremendous amounts of hair on an atrophied scalp. So to discount this is silly just because 3ppl were using other treatments. However it also does not make me want to spend $1500 for it since I am not incredibly wealthy. If I were I may purchase it.

 

[ZenHead]

"The study also showed that ZT initiated anagen in Androgenetic Alopecia subjects with Norwood-Hamilton classification 5-7. Moreover, several subjects were concurrently using finasteride and minoxidil with no evidence of adverse drug interactions with ZT." That is several out of 18 and they had a 65% success rate so that only about 11 of them. I guess that this is helping when used with existing treatments not too much when used alone.

2 we’re using min, 1 was using finasteride. Out of the total participants, many of them did not stick with it until the 6 month mark, hence the 65% success rate. If you look at the tables in the study you will see that every subject that used for more than 6 months responded in a positive way. I suggest reading the full study, it’s really quite impressive.

 

[Murkey Thumb]

2 we’re using min, 1 was using finasteride. Out of the total participants, many of them did not stick with it until the 6 month mark, hence the 65% success rate. If you look at the tables in the study you will see that every subject that used for more than 6 months responded in a positive way. I suggest reading the full study, it’s really quite impressive.

Dude I just quoted the study it says several not 2.

 

[Retinoid]

Dude I just quoted the study it says several not 2.

You quoted a Portion of the study, not the study. 2 were on Minoxidil and 1 was on Finasteride/Minoxidil. Several can mean many things, just like a few or multiple can mean nonspecific amounts.

 

[kiwi666]

Can you please explain what this has to do with stem cells.

 

[Murkey Thumb]

Can you please explain what this has to do with stem cells.

Absolutely nothing apart from the fact he is a stem cell doctor.

 

[Murkey Thumb]

You quoted a Portion of the study, not the study. 2 were on Minoxidil and 1 was on Finasteride/Minoxidil. Several can mean many things, just like a few or multiple can mean nonspecific amounts.

Yes i read that but that was probably at the beginning of the study. The conclusion clearly states several so that is more than 2, i would conclude by the end more were on finasteride and minoxidil then at the beginning.

 

[kiwi666]

Absolutely nothing apart from the fact he is a stem cell doctor.

I thought so. It’s all too easy to see ‘stem’ thrown around and get all excited.

So do you think you might try this?

 

[ZenHead]

Absolutely nothing apart from the fact he is a stem cell doctor.

he found thymulin as a new and important activating peptide for anagen hair growth via IRS. This plays a key role in transmitting signals from IGF-1 (insulin-like growth factor 1). in short, IGF-1 stimulates stem cell signaling. Where did you get that this has nothing to do with stem cells? Or was that just assumption

 

[kiwi666]

he found thymulin as a new and important activating peptide for anagen hair growth via IRS. This plays a key role in transmitting signals from IGF-1 (insulin-like growth factor 1). I’m short, IGF-1 stimulates stem cell signaling. Where did you get that this has nothing to do with stem cells? Or was that just assumption

Check out his website. He’s all about the stem cells

 

[ZenHead]

Check out his website. He’s all about the stem cells

True, “stem cells” are an attention grabber... it’d be better to call this a growth factor. Regardless stem cells are involved so I’ll try this - but I’m probably not going to buy it from him at that price.

 

[kiwi666]

True, “stem cells” are an attention grabber... it’d be better to call this a growth factor. Regardless stem cells are involved so I’ll try this - but I’m probably not going to buy it from him at that price.

Will you follow @IdealForehead’s instructions?

 

[Murkey Thumb]

I thought so. It’s all too easy to see ‘stem’ thrown around and get all excited.

So do you think you might try this?

Yes i would try it just not at £1.8k for a year as I can fly to Turkey and get a 2k graft implant for roughly that amount.

 

[Arrade]

What's the explanation of why this works?
Zinc is used internally to increase test.

 

[ZenHead]

Guys, after some digging around about IGF-1 and hair loss, I came across a lot of scientific articles with some pretty interesting data. There's actually a post on reddit that compiles some of the articles. If you're interested, I suggest checking out the link below. To me, the most interesting aspect of this angle is that DHT inhibits IGF-1 production in dermal papillae. This treatment is basically designed to allow IGF-1 to function properly in hair follicles, correcting DHT's interference with IGF-1.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Scholar/comments/1q7b5x/request_effect_of_topical_application_of/