Ultimate Stack To Deal With Finasteride Side Effects

[Tiger Shark]

Great post here, this should be a sticky given the amount of repetitive questions abt propecia sides.

Procar 2017 - I know a bit about these drugs and what the OP is saying is on point.I think your question is covered in Athlete's first post tbh but from my perspective Cabaser will handle libido and for sure can lean you up (cabaser and bromo suppress appetite and improve repartitioning, google a book called bromocriptine by lyle mcdonald for more on how they can help get you leaner than you have ever been).

I think testosterone, while it would help normalise it when dieting (via its leptin mimetic type action tricking your body into not crashing anabolic hormones) I do not see it as a test booster as such - its libido raising effects are predominantly through dopamine which is the king od libido drivers (compare a few lines of cocaine's impact on libido vs test injections and you won't doubt me).

Don't see any mention by the OP about DHT supps but a good AI (and the alchemy product looks like one to be fair) will help with:

1 - Eliminate estrogen related bloat
2 - Enhance test which in turn leads to more muscle and strength and improved CNS function (think Alpha Male mentality).
3 - Eliminate fat gain caused by estrogen
4. Help prevent gyno (cabaser would too but not estrogen mediated gyno, only prolactin induced gyno).
5. Further support libido from a testosterone angle rather than a dopamine one.

Last thing I would say, is that while a prescription AI like femara will do much the same, I think it destroys estrogen too much and that can be bad for mood, joints and libido so I think the recommendation of a supp is on track here (plus the one mentioned contains test boosters too, not just an AI).

In summary, if you are only worried about getting the horn and enjoying sex more, and couldn't care so much for points 1-4 then go with cabaser although the supplement would still help libido over and above as noted in point 5 above.

 

[JeanLucBB]

If you get sides on finasteride (and there's a 95% chance or greater that you won't), stop taking finasteride. Don't counter drugs with drugs like this dipshit armchair pseudo-scientist says.

 

[Jonnyyy]

If you get sides on finasteride (and there's a 95% chance or greater that you won't), stop taking finasteride. Don't counter drugs with drugs like this dipshit armchair pseudo-scientist says.

I agree with you but a lot of people on this forum would rather die than bald I say let them do what they think is best for themselves.

 

[Tiger Shark]

If you get sides on finasteride (and there's a 95% chance or greater that you won't), stop taking finasteride. Don't counter drugs with drugs like this dipshit armchair pseudo-scientist says.

You can drop the attitude for a start...

However, anyone who thinks 95% get no sides is deluding themselves or else a shill for a pharma company. This stuff works insidiously and it is easy for people to convince themselves that flagging libido, weight gain, impaired orgasms, gyno sides is all due to aging etc. If the sides creep up on you by 0.1% changes to areas like libido, body composition etc, it is easy to put it down to other things or even assume there has been no change from where you were at.

It also shows an ignorance of some basic facts - a man whose estrogen level is as high as those on finasteride naturally will all suffer from the same sides as outlined both on this thread and others on this board many, many times. Unless you are saying that high estrogen is great for muscle gain, fat loss, libido, and perfect for getting rid of gyno.

Or are you saying that the countless studies showing the importance of DHT as an androgen in both the brain and body are all bunk?

The point is simple really and nothing to do with finasteride as such. If you create the same hormonal environment as finasteride - high estrogen, suppressed DHT levels etc, you will end up with the same exact complaints that people have remarked about finasteride for years.

Either, you accept it and accept your willing to trade off your hair for mediocre results elsewhere or else you try to do something about it (and for what it is worth, the options presented in this thread are nowhere near as bad as finasteride used in the way discussed).

 

[JeanLucBB]

You can drop the attitude for a start...

However, anyone who thinks 95% get no sides is deluding themselves or else a shill for a pharma company. This stuff works insidiously and it is easy for people to convince themselves that flagging libido, weight gain, impaired orgasms, gyno sides is all due to aging etc. If the sides creep up on you by 0.1% changes to areas like libido, body composition etc, it is easy to put it down to other things or even assume there has been no change from where you were at.

It also shows an ignorance of some basic facts - a man whose estrogen level is as high as those on finasteride naturally will all suffer from the same sides as outlined both on this thread and others on this board many, many times. Unless you are saying that high estrogen is great for muscle gain, fat loss, libido, and perfect for getting rid of gyno.

Or are you saying that the countless studies showing the importance of DHT as an androgen in both the brain and body are all bunk?

The point is simple really and nothing to do with finasteride as such. If you create the same hormonal environment as finasteride - high estrogen, suppressed DHT levels etc, you will end up with the same exact complaints that people have remarked about finasteride for years.

Either, you accept it and accept your willing to trade off your hair for mediocre results elsewhere or else you try to do something about it (and for what it is worth, the options presented in this thread are nowhere near as bad as finasteride used in the way discussed).

You can eat my sh*t for a start you pseudo-intellectual fuckwit. Even studies that acknowledge PFS don't claim more than 2-5% on finasteride getting side effects. I've spoken to multiple doctors with over 100 patients taking it and each said that they believed the issues were largely psychological and only around 1-2% of users were effected. You're a tinfoil hat conspiracy theorist who cherry picks what he wants to hear.

"Or are you saying that the countless studies showing the importance of DHT as an androgen in both the brain and body are all bunk?"

Doesn't change the fact that almost every single finasteride study (and there are many of them) suggests that less than 5% experience ANY noticeable change on finasteride short or long term. You cannot infer from those studies on DHT with any clarity about effects of finasteride because clearly there are other variables at play, and the studies on finasteride itself do not agree with you. Not that you care, armchair pharmacist sh*t licker.

You clearly have absolutely no understanding of the various variables involved or medical data on the subject as made clear by your conspiracy theorist delusion of finasteride study inaccuracy, so please don't act like an authority on the matter. Despite no understanding of the actual medical science you still happily claim others should use other counter drugs that again you would be happy to cherry pick your data for to their detriment.

What a f*****g embarrassment you are.

 

[Procar_2017]

So... 1. I'm not here for balding, I took finasteride at the urging of my urologist for an enlarged prostate ( no signs of bph).
2. I'm assuming those that come to this forum are in fact experiencing side effects so quoting a 2_5% figure is irrelevant.
3. There really is no need to be so negative.. my Dr quoted the same figure along with the noted placebo test but again, doesn't help if you are in fact impacted. Lastly I thank those who have put useful information here because even at 55, any loss of libido/ performance is still devaststing; this thread is a godsend.

 

[Athlete1987]

You can eat my sh*t for a start you pseudo-intellectual fuckwit. Even studies that acknowledge PFS don't claim more than 2-5% on finasteride getting side effects. I've spoken to multiple doctors with over 100 patients taking it and each said that they believed the issues were largely psychological and only around 1-2% of users were effected. You're a tinfoil hat conspiracy theorist who cherry picks what he wants to hear.

"Or are you saying that the countless studies showing the importance of DHT as an androgen in both the brain and body are all bunk?"

Doesn't change the fact that almost every single finasteride study (and there are many of them) suggests that less than 5% experience ANY noticeable change on finasteride short or long term. You cannot infer from those studies on DHT with any clarity about effects of finasteride because clearly there are other variables at play, and the studies on finasteride itself do not agree with you. Not that you care, armchair pharmacist sh*t licker.

You clearly have absolutely no understanding of the various variables involved or medical data on the subject as made clear by your conspiracy theorist delusion of finasteride study inaccuracy, so please don't act like an authority on the matter. Despite no understanding of the actual medical science you still happily claim others should use other counter drugs that again you would be happy to cherry pick your data for to their detriment.

What a f*****g embarrassment you are.

There really is no need for such bad language and aggression. Dude, he’s saying self reported sides aren’t meaningful simply cos it’s hard for people to detect gradual changes. As the OP here though he’s saying pretty much what I would.

Simple way to resolve this is:

a) get bloods taken before and after finasteride is started.

b) If no change then it’s contrary to what big pharma’s studies show.

c) If estrogen goes up on finasteride then, irrespective of what any patient or doctor thinks, it’s not possible to argue how elevated estrogen impacts the male physique/brain. This has been studied in great detail. Do the finasteride studies investigate, to name one example, a change in body composition, or CNS efficiency, two things which DHT has plenty of evidence to support its positive effects here (and equally lots of evidence to show estrogen is gonna impact here)?

Have Merck’s propecia studies looked at the long term effects on gyno?
How about looking at measuring scientifically the effect on sexual function (and no, asking people if they think there has been a change is not going to produce accurate date).

As a corollary, millions of people say diets don’t work for them, and this includes in multiple studies where subjects are supposedly following calorie controlled diets but are ultimately left to track their own diets.

Otoh, studies where they not only have maintained total control of subjects diets (even rinsing plates totally to ensure all calories are consumed) have consistently shown that diets work and subjects lose weight providing a calorie deficit is maintained.

Now, if people under estimate what they eat which is a pretty easy thing to get right, I don’t think it’s a stretch to think they may struggle to remember if their aggression in the gym is down from a year or so previous, or if their libido etc is impacted.

What’s more, unlike the dieters who are misreporting calories (consciously or unconsciously), the guys on finasteride have:

1. A lot longer to think back to to remember what they felt like.
2. Clearly shown endocrinological changes which would impact bodily function even in the absence of an anti-androgen.
3. More of a reason to try to convince themselves that they have no sides (if you’re insecure enough to want to take finasteride etc, and note I don’t exclude myself from that, then you’ve more reason given the investment in time, effects on ego to believe you’ve no sides).

Once again, I’m saying an anti-androgen which suppresses levels of a critical male hormone with multiple positive effects on male physiological and psychological function while also elevating levels of a female hormone which again has a number of deleterious effects on male function, cannot possibly not have a negative effect on male wellbeing irrespective of even if 100/100 of participants in a double blind study report otherwise.

That’s because unlike such studies, there have been countless studies on estrogen and dht and impact on everything from fertility to their effects on sexual dysfunction disorders and you’ll see a consistent pattern of results and look at objectively measurable data - things like motility levels, total and free test, LH, SHBG levels etc etc etc. Elevate your estrogen and lower your dht and it’s no free ride.

Bottom line, if the only “Science” you’re gonna quote is based on self reported beliefs from finasteride users saying they didn’t feel any sides then more power to you.

Good luck with your hairloss approach either way,

 

[JeanLucBB]

There really is no need for such bad language and aggression. Dude, he’s saying self reported sides aren’t meaningful simply cos it’s hard for people to detect gradual changes. As the OP here though he’s saying pretty much what I would.

Simple way to resolve this is:

a) get bloods taken before and after finasteride is started.

b) If no change then it’s contrary to what big pharma’s studies show.

c) If estrogen goes up on finasteride then, irrespective of what any patient or doctor thinks, it’s not possible to argue how elevated estrogen impacts the male physique/brain. This has been studied in great detail. Do the finasteride studies investigate, to name one example, a change in body composition, or CNS efficiency, two things which DHT has plenty of evidence to support its positive effects here (and equally lots of evidence to show estrogen is gonna impact here)?

Have Merck’s propecia studies looked at the long term effects on gyno?
How about looking at measuring scientifically the effect on sexual function (and no, asking people if they think there has been a change is not going to produce accurate date).

As a corollary, millions of people say diets don’t work for them, and this includes in multiple studies where subjects are supposedly following calorie controlled diets but are ultimately left to track their own diets.

Otoh, studies where they not only have maintained total control of subjects diets (even rinsing plates totally to ensure all calories are consumed) have consistently shown that diets work and subjects lose weight providing a calorie deficit is maintained.

Now, if people under estimate what they eat which is a pretty easy thing to get right, I don’t think it’s a stretch to think they may struggle to remember if their aggression in the gym is down from a year or so previous, or if their libido etc is impacted.

What’s more, unlike the dieters who are misreporting calories (consciously or unconsciously), the guys on finasteride have:

1. A lot longer to think back to to remember what they felt like.
2. Clearly shown endocrinological changes which would impact bodily function even in the absence of an anti-androgen.
3. More of a reason to try to convince themselves that they have no sides (if you’re insecure enough to want to take finasteride etc, and note I don’t exclude myself from that, then you’ve more reason given the investment in time, effects on ego to believe you’ve no sides).

Once again, I’m saying an anti-androgen which suppresses levels of a critical male hormone with multiple positive effects on male physiological and psychological function while also elevating levels of a female hormone which again has a number of deleterious effects on male function, cannot possibly not have a negative effect on male wellbeing irrespective of even if 100/100 of participants in a double blind study report otherwise.

That’s because unlike such studies, there have been countless studies on estrogen and dht and impact on everything from fertility to their effects on sexual dysfunction disorders and you’ll see a consistent pattern of results and look at objectively measurable data - things like motility levels, total and free test, LH, SHBG levels etc etc etc. Elevate your estrogen and lower your dht and it’s no free ride.

Bottom line, if the only “Science” you’re gonna quote is based on self reported beliefs from finasteride users saying they didn’t feel any sides then more power to you.

Good luck with your hairloss approach either way,

You're too stupid to bother responding to but this in particular needs to be dealt with

"Bottom line, if the only “Science” you’re gonna quote is based on self reported beliefs from finasteride users saying they didn’t feel any sides then more power to you. "

This is the data from at least 10 major finasteride studies and the opinion of most doctors who prescribe it to their patient. Acting like this is my vague "opinion" makes it clear you deserve the bad language, you're a tinfoil hat fucktard not fit to lick the sh*t off a dogs ***. Pure delusion.

"cannot possibly not have a negative effect on male wellbeing irrespective of even if 100/100 of participants in a double blind study report otherwise."'

More pseudo-science. So a double blind study (or many, many of them) doesn't matter because you arbitrarily feel strongly that the literally all respondents are wrong and can't be trusted because of separate data that OBJECTIVELY cannot be used to infer something with completely separate variables? You need a lobotomy for the good of society. That kind of stupidity is dangerous.

 

[Athlete1987]

So... 1. I'm not here for balding, I took finasteride at the urging of my urologist for an enlarged prostate ( no signs of bph).
2. I'm assuming those that come to this forum are in fact experiencing side effects so quoting a 2_5% figure is irrelevant.
3. There really is no need to be so negative.. my Dr quoted the same figure along with the noted placebo test but again, doesn't help if you are in fact impacted. Lastly I thank those who have put useful information here because even at 55, any loss of libido/ performance is still devaststing; this thread is a godsend.

Hey buddy. I’m sorry to hear about this however I used to actually be one of those who felt there was no sides even though with my medical background,

I was fully conversant with the fact that any use of an anti-androgen was going to have a negative effect on levels of hormones that are critical to physique, emotional and psychological health. It’s essy to kid yourself though that what you feel like after 2 years on finasteride is probably what it was like before you started - as mentioned in my post above, you’ll either forget what it was like or convince yourself to forget if that makes sense.

Despite this, I stopped and lo and behold what I had put down to age, stress etc etc was nothing of the sort.

This is why self reported feelings of study participants are next to useless. Even when somebody has no motivation to lie to themselves, people are terrible at recalling events from the past - I’m sure you’ve seen enough science books in recent years about how people’s brains lie to them - at this point I’m amazed anyone would believe a study based on self reported feelings of participants.

Ultimately, by taking finasteride you’ve been taking something that regardless of whether other people on the the thread believe it or not, is a drug that elevates estrogen and lowers dht.

Ignoring every other potential side effect, we know that doing that will have a bad effect on male sexual function. At a high enough adjustment you’ll lose all desire for sex probably. This is the nature of the hormones themselves and even 100 million finasteride users claiming to be in amazing physical and mental condition wont change the fact that raising estrogen and lowering dht is bad for men wanting to be physically and sexually at their best.

(It’s why men with a high androgen level and low estrogen level will naturally be more dominant, muscular etc. If the finasteride makes no difference at all as others claim then we should expect that when we look at world class athletes just as many men have high estrogen and low DHT as vice versa, something which is obviously untrue).

Anyway, sorry for the long digression. It just makes me sad people are so desparate to save their hair that they are willing to believe their own bodies are somehow immune to changes in hormones.

I think, a conservative choice for you, one you didn’t mention before, would be a drug like selegiline or even milder 9-MBC. These are widely used and in fact, despite some of the kneejerk reactions on this thread might make you think, both have applications in other ways, and both have been shown to be neuroprotective (selegiline has a lot of interest as a life extension drug in fact believe it or not).

In your case, if you didn’t want to go with cabaser then I think from what you said in your last post, one of those would be appropriate. The pharmacy I posted earlier carries the selegiline I think and it’s probably cheap too + ignoring effects on sex drive you’ll definitely find it great for creating a great mindset, making you more focused at work and mean you don’t need so many stims (which might be good for prostate too as stimulants are notorious for causing prostate issues).

Good luck with your decision. I’ll keep an eye on this thread if you need more help.

 

[Athlete1987]

You're too stupid to bother responding to but this in particular needs to be dealt with

"Bottom line, if the only “Science” you’re gonna quote is based on self reported beliefs from finasteride users saying they didn’t feel any sides then more power to you. "

This is the data from at least 10 major finasteride studies and the opinion of most doctors who prescribe it to their patient. Acting like this is "opinion" makes it clear you deserve the bad language, you're a tinfoil hat fucktard not fit to lick the sh*t off a dogs ***. Pure delusion.

"cannot possibly not have a negative effect on male wellbeing irrespective of even if 100/100 of participants in a double blind study report otherwise."'

More pseudo-science. So a double blind study (or many, many of them) doesn't matter because you arbitrarily feel strongly that the literally all respondents are wrong and can't be trusted because of separate data that OBJECTIVELY cannot be used to infer something with completely separate variables? You need a lobotomy for the good of society. That kind of stupidity is dangerous.

Thanks for failing to post the detailed data from finasteride studies which shows that through the magic of finasteride, it is able to overcome the negative consequences established across literally thousands of studies associated with elevated E and suppressed DHT in men.

Because some doctor or patients subjective experience trump all that.

Ignoring you now, but I don’t think being toxic on forums is doing much to back up your case that taking finasteride has no negative impacts on mood

 

[JeanLucBB]

Thanks for failing to post the detailed data from finasteride studies which shows that through the magic of finasteride, it is able to overcome the negative consequences established across literally thousands of studies associated with elevated E and suppressed DHT in men.

Because some doctor or patients subjective experience trump all that.

Ignoring you now, but I don’t think being toxic on forums is doing much to back up your case that taking finasteride has no negative impacts on mood

"Because some doctor or patients subjective experience trump all that."

No, just 99% of studies on finasteride which you choose to ignore because it suits your tinfoil hat agenda.

"cannot possibly not have a negative effect on male wellbeing irrespective of even if 100/100 of participants in a double blind study report otherwise."

This is the stupidest thing I have ever read on this forum. Learn how the scientific method and logical arguments work. Unless you're counting "negative" effects that are absolutely unnoticeable by users, in which case you can hardly call them negative then can you?

"it is able to overcome the negative consequences established across literally thousands of studies associated with elevated E and suppressed DHT in men."

You cannot use this as an argument that finasteride will have noticeable negative effects in all men as you suggest. You can assume it and test the hypothesis in a double blind study, but it you objectively cannot conclude that all men will have noticeable negative effects on finasteride with this information. Acting as if double blind studies are meaningless is so utterly absurd I cannot believe how stupid you are. The dickless cuck anti-finasteride brigade never cease to amaze me with their complete rejection of logic and reason.

Take a logic 101 class.

Or don't, you're a low-IQ degenerate too stupid to understand it to begin with.

 

[Procar_2017]

I really appreciate your excellent posts and those of original op; like I said, a godsend. If I had been made aware of the sude effects, regardless of the percentages of those affected, I never would have taken this horrible drug. I Explicitly asked my Dr about sexual side effects and all he mentioned was that the volume of semen could be reduced eventually but we could stop if any 7ndication arose. I felt a change within the 2 months I was on it. I could kill the Dr and am going to follow up to make this doesn't happen to someone else. But I blame myself as well for not investigating first vs just trustingbwhat my Dr Saud to do. Again thank you so much and please continue to post, I need to get back to normal, at least for my age.

Hey buddy. I’m sorry to hear about this however I used to actually be one of those who felt there was no sides even though with my medical background,

I was fully conversant with the fact that any use of an anti-androgen was going to have a negative effect on levels of hormones that are critical to physique, emotional and psychological health. It’s essy to kid yourself though that what you feel like after 2 years on finasteride is probably what it was like before you started - as mentioned in my post above, you’ll either forget what it was like or convince yourself to forget if that makes sense.

Despite this, I stopped and lo and behold what I had put down to age, stress etc etc was nothing of the sort.

This is why self reported feelings of study participants are next to useless. Even when somebody has no motivation to lie to themselves, people are terrible at recalling events from the past - I’m sure you’ve seen enough science books in recent years about how people’s brains lie to them - at this point I’m amazed anyone would believe a study based on self reported feelings of participants.

Ultimately, by taking finasteride you’ve been taking something that regardless of whether other people on the the thread believe it or not, is a drug that elevates estrogen and lowers dht.

Ignoring every other potential side effect, we know that doing that will have a bad effect on male sexual function. At a high enough adjustment you’ll lose all desire for sex probably. This is the nature of the hormones themselves and even 100 million finasteride users claiming to be in amazing physical and mental condition wont change the fact that raising estrogen and lowering dht is bad for men wanting to be physically and sexually at their best.

(It’s why men with a high androgen level and low estrogen level will naturally be more dominant, muscular etc. If the finasteride makes no difference at all as others claim then we should expect that when we look at world class athletes just as many men have high estrogen and low DHT as vice versa, something which is obviously untrue).

Anyway, sorry for the long digression. It just makes me sad people are so desparate to save their hair that they are willing to believe their own bodies are somehow immune to changes in hormones.

I think, a conservative choice for you, one you didn’t mention before, would be a drug like selegiline or even milder 9-MBC. These are widely used and in fact, despite some of the kneejerk reactions on this thread might make you think, both have applications in other ways, and both have been shown to be neuroprotective (selegiline has a lot of interest as a life extension drug in fact believe it or not).

In your case, if you didn’t want to go with cabaser then I think from what you said in your last post, one of those would be appropriate. The pharmacy I posted earlier carries the selegiline I think and it’s probably cheap too + ignoring effects on sex drive you’ll definitely find it great for creating a great mindset, making you more focused at work and mean you don’t need so many stims (which might be good for prostate too as stimulants are notorious for causing prostate issues).

Good luck with your decision. I’ll keep an eye on this thread if you need more help.

 

[tjnpdx]

Janet, I know I've told quite a few people on this forum that they're my most favorite idiot, so perhaps I've been unfaithful, and, for that, I am truly ashamed. But, still, we must try to make the best of ourselves in spite of our most pressing flaws, so I will, yet again, renew my vow with an invigorated effervescence inspired by my immortal youth and declare, for the last and final time: You, @JeanLucBB, are, and forever will be, my sincerest, most favorite idiot.

I'll say now, as I've said before: you're freedom to take the drug--though the drug itself I may personally disagree with, albeit I've given it.a trial--I fully support, and will defend to the death your right to do so. (Not you personally, since you're a silly c*** (although maybe, but only if gyno was a guarantee because I'd wanna see them titties))

Though you're impassioned dedication to this detestable drug may be commendable purely for the sake of demonstrating your ability to make some sort of work for yourself, it is, nonetheless, an abominable cause. Why you'd choose to use the drug yourself is your own business; why you'd recommended it as a current option for treating hair loss is understandable; why you have any trouble understanding that it's a bullshit drug that does, indeed, have negative effects in the body and does nothing good for anything other than possibly maybe your hair, is asinine and insensible (although the answer may be found in my last quote of yours).

Why you're so indomitably obsequious to a drug like finasteride, I just can't begin to fathom. When someone asks what options there are for the treatment of hair loss, it seems completely reasonable that all the available options would be stated; but to be so adamant about its harmlessness and to underplay the effects of hormonal diminution in the brain and body--all those known and yet unknown--though you may not care much for your own putrescent smarts, is mental indolence.

"You can assume it and test the hypothesis in a double blind study, but it you objectively cannot conclude that all men will have noticeable negative effects on finasteride with this information."

No study will ever demonstrate that finasteride or duta cause noticeable negative effects in all men, ever. Anyone who would declare that finasteride or duta cause noticeable negative effects in all men is an imbecile.

This is the stupidest thing I have ever read on this forum. Learn how the scientific method and logical arguments work. Unless you're counting "negative" effects that are absolutely unnoticeable by users, in which case you can hardly call them negative then can you?

And that is the stupidest thing I've ever read on this forum and supports the point that you don't care to even consider the neurological ramifications of medication-induced hormonal alteration. A 16-year-old might not notice the negative effects the inhibition of developmental hormones has on his brain and body right away, so I'm sure they're negligible, right? The fact is, if you're completely unwilling to take what is known, both objectivly and subjectively (there is information hidden in anecdotes that report similarly, especially when they amount to any substantial quantity, if you're willing to abnegate your own delusions and denials for a time), work your own little mental gymnastics--however well you can--and perform a feat of conjecture the likes of which you've probably never known, then you yourself are baseless, incorrigible, and should reevaluate what you seem to proclaim in regards your weltanschauung to science, and probably life. Unwilling is one thing; but if you're unable to hypothesize on your own and only accept the explicit statements of your very own cherrypicked studies and data to determine your credo, and unwilling to be forthright about the known knowns and the known unknowns regarding the drug, then you're just plain useless and should refrain from preaching your perfidious choir to people seeking information about options.

I know that this is a bit to demand of you since you're so passionate about this drug, but I'm going to submit a request in supplication: try to use your brain a little bit and see if you can infer just what the brief data on 5AR-I's and neurosteroids might mean for the bodily functions of people, in both conspicuous, and inconspicuous, manifestations. Even the slightest integration of the information available to you into your vacuous claptrap would be an improvement. You'll have to fill in some of the blanks for yourself, Casandra. The fact is, it's up to you to dispute the utility and purposiveness of neurosteroids and why inhibiting them, despite what you can find to demonstrate the negatives of doing so, is negligible. And if the answer is "because I want to regrow my hair," more power to you. But, if the answer is "if the negative effects are absolutely unnoticeable by users, then they aren't even negative," then you, silly c***, can f*** right off. The fact is, you'll be hard-pressed to find someone who doesn't personally recommend the use of finasteride or duta, who will not concurrently recognize that there's a chance for people to take it without noticeable side-effects. The other fact, is that you're the only person of all those I've ever come across who speak about the drug, out of those who personally support its use and those who don't, who demonstrates such an insuperable allegiance to their own delusions.

There's a fancy little graphic for you that I found right quick just to get you started on your new researches into neurochemistry. Bye, Rachelle.

 

[Athlete1987]

Nice post there but I don’t think it’s gonna convince this guy.

Heck, thalidomide, rimonabant are two examples of drugs which passed safety studies plus countless others so that shows you how much studies take a detailed look at how a drug can potentially impact bodily systems which aren’t the primary use case for the drug.

Unfortunately, no matter how much we explain it, this guy will never get it and instead come out with his laughable internet tough guy routine.

 

[tjnpdx]

Nice post there but I don’t think it’s gonna convince this guy.

Heck, thalidomide, rimonabant are two examples of drugs which passed safety studies plus countless others so that shows you how much studies take a detailed look at how a drug can potentially impact bodily systems which aren’t the primary use case for the drug.

Unfortunately, no matter how much we explain it, this guy will never get it and instead come out with his laughable internet tough guy routine.

Luckily I’ve no intention of convincing Lindsey, only showing her who can argue better, be more pithily articulate in their name calling, and point out the fact that she’s a silly c*** (he likes when I call him that for some reason).

 

[dermrafok]

Finasteride treatment and male breast cancer: a register-based cohort study in four Nordic countries. Cohort study...Not bad.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/cam4.1273/full

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/cam4.1273/epdf

@JeanLucBB @sadila @Saulus @sunchyme1 @itsjustsimon @br1 @rclark @real kombo @ainsley_harriott

Here we provide medicine based on evidence. Not your things without sense.

New treatments are urgently needed. The studies verify them.

"A significant relationship is identified between those treated with finasteride and MBC"

 

[Athlete1987]

He’s gonna tell you that x number of patients and doctors say otherwise based on their personal experience and that the company estrogen produced from finasteride use is a magic, special estrogen that has no side effects.

 

[dermrafok]

He’s gonna tell you that x number of patients and doctors say otherwise based on their personal experience and that the company estrogen produced from finasteride use is a magic, special estrogen that has no side effects.

I don't think that.

 

[Saulus]

"A review found 50 spontaneously reported MBC cases worldwide in patients treated with 5 mg finasteride and three reports in patients treated with 1 mg finasteride [6]. The median time to onset of MBC after starting 5 mg finasteride treatment was 36 months (range: 5 weeks to 11 years). The review identified eight cases that were observed in three placebo-controlled clinical trials [4, 5, 8], where individuals were exposed to 5 mg finasteride and followed up for up to 5 years, altogether for 89,496 person years (PY). The crude incidence rate of MBC in persons treated with finasteride was 7.8 per 100,000 PY (95% confidence interval [95% CI] = 3.7–16.4), which was higher although not statistically different from the MBC rate 3.8 per 100,000 PY (95% CI = 1.2–11.9) in the unexposed group (P = 0.33)."

Laughable numbers for 1mg..

 

[dermrafok]

"A review found 50 spontaneously reported MBC cases worldwide in patients treated with 5 mg finasteride and three reports in patients treated with 1 mg finasteride [6]. The median time to onset of MBC after starting 5 mg finasteride treatment was 36 months (range: 5 weeks to 11 years). The review identified eight cases that were observed in three placebo-controlled clinical trials [4, 5, 8], where individuals were exposed to 5 mg finasteride and followed up for up to 5 years, altogether for 89,496 person years (PY). The crude incidence rate of MBC in persons treated with finasteride was 7.8 per 100,000 PY (95% confidence interval [95% CI] = 3.7–16.4), which was higher although not statistically different from the MBC rate 3.8 per 100,000 PY (95% CI = 1.2–11.9) in the unexposed group (P = 0.33)."

Laughable numbers for 1mg..

"A significant relationship is identified between those treated with finasteride and MBC"