Very Impressive Dermarolling And Minxodil Results - From Tressless

[badhabiz]

The mechanism isn't fully understood yet, but it's clear that there is a synergistic relationship between the two treatments.

• Microneedling improves minoxidil response in androgenetic alopecia patients by upregulating follicular sulfotransferase enzyme

also, what the user means with "Oral minoxidil also can convert non-responders to responders." is that our liver is rich in terms of sulfotransferase enzyme.

btw dont remember who, but someone posted a study about sodium bicarbonate (2ml per day) which should change the pHi of the ORS and stimulate follicular sulfotransferase activity (= boost minoxidil)

 

[sonictemples]

Wouldn't minoxidil sulfate work better

 

[Throwaway94]

Wouldn't minoxidil sulfate work better

Sure but it's not stable in solution

 

[sonictemples]

Sure but it's not stable in solution

Mixing it daily?

 

[Throwaway94]

Mixing it daily?

Go for it. They say its also more likely to irritate skin though

 

[pegasus2]

Go for it. They say its also more likely to irritate skin though

I doubt that. I think that comes from the idea that you have to use more penetration enhancers to penetrate the scalp because the molecular weight is higher. The molecular weight is under 500 daltons though, so it should penetrate fine.

The problem is, as you said, instability in solution. When I looked into it I found it should be stable enough for weekly batches in ethanol and pg. Worst case scenario it just degrades to regular minoxidil, so it's really a no brainer. The only reason I am not using it is because you need to mix it separately from any of your other compounds because when it degrades the sulfuric acid that's released may degrade the other molecules in your solution.

 

[Pephair]

Has anyone noticed a general theme of success being from a certain length/frequency? I’ve seen it all over the board. Personally I do it every 2 weeks at 1.5 but that’s just cause I’m lazy. But if there is more success with every week I might bite the bullet.

 

[countjulian]

Has anyone noticed a general theme of success being from a certain length/frequency? I’ve seen it all over the board. Personally I do it every 2 weeks at 1.5 but that’s just cause I’m lazy. But if there is more success with every week I might bite the bullet.

I've read so many things on this I am confused myself.

 

[Throwaway94]

I doubt that. I think that comes from the idea that you have to use more penetration enhancers to penetrate the scalp because the molecular weight is higher. The molecular weight is under 500 daltons though, so it should penetrate fine.

The problem is, as you said, instability in solution. When I looked into it I found it should be stable enough for weekly batches in ethanol and pg. Worst case scenario it just degrades to regular minoxidil, so it's really a no brainer. The only reason I am not using it is because you need to mix it separately from any of your other compounds because when it degrades the sulfuric acid that's released may degrade the other molecules in your solution.

Just blindly quoting the literature on that one I'm not sure how much substance there is to it. I'd consider it too if I move to topical but if you're already a minoxidil responder it's hard to justify the extra steps.

 

[nick123]

I read dermarolling without minoxidil is pretty much like pissing in the ocean.

Well if this is indeed true (not claiming it is) then surely the only reason microneedling + minoxidil is working is by enhancing follicular sulfotransferase activity...

If this is indeed the case then surely we should also just use less invasive hair loss treatments, i.e instead of microneedling + minoxidil we'd try minoxidil + tretinoin or perhaps when it's released minoxidil + Applied Biology's upcoming topical minoxidil adjuvant therapy AB-103?

 

[Throwaway94]

Well if this is indeed true (not claiming it is) then surely the only reason microneedling + minoxidil is working is by enhancing follicular sulfotransferase activity...

If this is indeed the case then surely we should also just use less invasive hair loss treatments, i.e instead of microneedling + minoxidil we'd try minoxidil + tretinoin or perhaps when it's released minoxidil + Applied Biology's upcoming topical minoxidil adjuvant therapy AB-103?

Why is it surely the only reason? It's surely the only reason if upregulating sulfotransferase is surely the only thing that needling accomplishes.

 

[Dimitri001]

Are we sure that microneedling alone does nothing? If it induces follicle neogenesis, then that would have to mean that minoxidil is necessary for neogenesis, which is I suppose possible, but seems unlikely.

 

[TylerDurdenn]

Hi guys, will this be a decent one, Dr Pen Derma Pen Ultima A6? I guess it doesnt matter that much what I buy? The shortest size is 0.25, this wont be too long? I also thought about Dr.pen Ultima N2, its half the price, is it worth it to spend a bit more for a expensive one?

Thanks!

 

[5minutesbeforemiracle]

That's right. Without minoxidil stem cells don't know to become hair cells during wound healing. Minoxidil is what coaxes them into forming dp cells.

Is this your own conclusion you've drawn or you've read it somewhere?
If it's the latter, I find it odd because some studies which tried microneedling-only have had good results, such as the attached Chinese study from just this year. Of course, this forum has had some people who got no results on microneedling only. Why can they achieve it in the lab but it's not replicable on the forums!?

 

[Derelict]

It's well documented. Microneedling does work by itself because it increases several growth factors, but it's the kind of results that are only significant on paper. I'm sure people have had success with it on the forums, but nothing noticeable. If you add minoxidil you greatly increase the rate of neogenesis. You can also use other things to increase neogenesis like shh agonists, Wnt agonists, PKC inhibitors, or EGFR inhibitors. Any of these things will promote the DP fate in stem cell populations.

Sorry but i can't think of a single person who has had results from microneedling alone, i stopped it ages ago, i need to change my regimen actually. It's just dutasteride, 200mg spironolactone and 5mg oral minoxidil.The only person who i can think of is 2youngtoretire or whatever his name is but i find his results a bit dubious tbh

 

[Derelict]

The results you get from microneedling alone aren't going to show up in pictures. They just aren't dramatic enough to be noticeable, same as minoxidil monotherapy. You should get back on microneedling now that you're on oral minoxidil. Even once a month is fine. I notice the most regrowth 3-4 weeks after a needling session.

What depth do you needle at? i would rather avoid using a pen as it used to tug out lots of hair when using, prefer a roller even though it doesn't wound as effectively

 

[pegasus2]

What depth do you needle at? i would rather avoid using a pen as it used to tug out lots of hair when using, prefer a roller even though it doesn't wound as effectively

Pens are definitely superior. I used to do 1mm, but I switched to 1.5mm in the last two months. I tried 2.5mm, but it was too painful. Maybe I'll try it again with a numbing cream.

 

[Derelict]

Pens are definitely superior. I used to do 1mm, but I switched to 1.5mm in the last two months. I tried 2.5mm, but it was too painful. Maybe I'll try it again with a numbing cream.

12 pin or 36pin cartridge, i was using 36 pin, dunno if that's why it was pulling out so many hairs. I was needling at 2.5mm and the pain wasn't all that bad, on my crown though, maybe temples and stuff are more painful.

 

[TylerDurdenn]

Anyone???

"Hi guys, will this be a decent one, Dr Pen Derma Pen Ultima A6? I guess it doesnt matter that much what I buy? The shortest size is 0.25, this wont be too long? I also thought about Dr.pen Ultima N2, its half the price, is it worth it to spend a bit more for a expensive one?"

 

[Derelict]

Anyone???

"Hi guys, will this be a decent one, Dr Pen Derma Pen Ultima A6? I guess it doesnt matter that much what I buy? The shortest size is 0.25, this wont be too long? I also thought about Dr.pen Ultima N2, its half the price, is it worth it to spend a bit more for a expensive one?"

0.25 is not long at all, i have the dr pen ultima a6, works great, i would buy that.