What do we think about the safety of RU58841?

[Hoppi]

I mean I think this is the big question isn't it? I'm sure that if we knew that RU was safe, and especially if it could be bought vaguely affordably in a stable and easy to use form, people would be using it in very large numbers as I would imagine a superior alternative to spironolactone and flutamide. I know there is a thread about this already, but I thought by making it a poll we could see clearly and concisely how people feel about it's safety, and what evidence might back this up

I think that if it's safe, RU could be a very large step forward!

Hoppi!


Oh, and if you do have some evidence for the safety of RU or potentially side effects and dangers of RU, feel free to post it, it would be very helpful

 

[KeepTheHair]

:dunno:

 

[OverMachoGrande]

Since it has not been approved for hair loss there is no sure way to know.

 

[adolobe]

With out a large scale clinical trail over the course of 12-36 months or longer there will not be any definitive answer to this poll.

Now there are a few users who have used RU58841 for a few years now and one specifically who I wont call out but if you search for RU58841 you will fig it out who does constant blood work and he has been fine all this time.

RU58841 has a short half life so thats good news but keep in mind the owners of the formula have done nothing with it with out any hint as to why. Maybe it is because of the complexity of the formula to stabilize or something worse.

We know the sides of Min and finasteride for the most party. Each have been on the market for 10+ years and both went through several trials before being approved.

Its a risk you take to be bleeding edge

 

[Hoppi]

Well, I did hear that it was taken no further due to systemic absorption (which is true, but I believe that's just systemic absorption of it's antiandrogen effects, which isn't really so bad).

Also is it true it's been around for nearly 15 years O.O Surely the dangers would have revealed themselves by now!

Here's something about it: http://tressless.com/learn/RU58841

 

[Hoppi]

There's a huge thing about RU on this other forum, I'll put the best bits, and dude it looks properly safe.. if it is I am going to swap spironolactone for it, no question.

I'm still looking into underlying things like thyroid, but dude I am not willing to lose any hair in the process lol - pulling out the big guns!!

From the original 1994 paper in France, courtesy of El Duterino:

"As far as RU 58841 is concerned, two principal
metabolites have been identified: RU 56279, resulting
from N-dealkylation and RU 59416, the acid formed by
oxidation of the butyl alcohol function. RU 56279 is
formed in a very low proportion, representing about 1%
of RU 58841 administered, compared with RU 59416,
which represents 93%. RU 58841, a topically active
compound has little systemic activity. Its metabolites
were therefore administered s.c. so as to mimic the
complete passage of the compounds through the skin
and to measure their effects at the level of the prostate
and seminal vesicles. In these conditions, RU 56279
causes an important reduction in prostate and seminal
vesicle weights (as after oral administration). RU 59416
on the other hand does not significantly modify these
parameters. Furthermore, it displays a very low affinity
for the androgen receptor (preliminary results, not yet
published). Thus the lack of systemic effects of RU
58841 could be explained by the fact that it is metabolized
principally to a compound which is inactive on
accessory sex organ weight in the rat.
Thus, the dissociation of the effects RU 56187 and
58841 would therefore seem to be related to the extent
of their metabolism and to the proportion of the common
N-desalkyl metabolite formed.
RU 58841 being at present in clinical development
for the local treatment of acne, alopecia and hirsutism,
its pharmacokinetics have also been studied after
cutaneous administration. The same metabolites were
found in the plasma but at concentrations much
lower than after i.v. administration. These results
showing that RU 58841 is transformed primarily into an
inactive metabolite suggest that, provided that its
metabolism in man is the same as in the rat, it could be
used topically without the risk of affecting accessory sex organ weight."

The thread goes on to talk about other studies, the selling of the patents from company to company and many safe trials of it in humans and animals. It looks very, very safe to me In fact hell it looks safer than things like finasteride and Flutamide, at least at the moment!

Apparently it's potency topically is equal or superior to finasteride.

The systemic absorption of it also seems to be pretty small, a fraction of that of something like flutamide.

I think we need as many studies of RU as possible, it deserves to be the next spironolactone IMO

 

[Bryan]

I mean I think this is the big question isn't it? I'm sure that if we knew that RU was safe, and especially if it could be bought vaguely affordably in a stable and easy to use form, people would be using it in very large numbers as I would imagine a superior alternative to spironolactone and flutamide.

Nah. The stuff is apparently fairly expensive to manufacture, and nobody is going to spend the enormous amounts of $$$ just to get FDA approval. Furthermore, previous efforts to market hairgrowth treatments (Rogaine and Propecia) have had very disappointing sales for their companies. Considering all those factors AND the fact that topicals in general are very messy to use and require a lot of motivation and conscientiousness, RU58841 is never...I repeat NEVER...going to be officially approved and marketed. Simply not gonna happen.

Also is it true it's been around for nearly 15 years O.O

The original Battmann paper on RU58841 came out in 1994.

 

[Hoppi]

yeah mad isn't it?

And I do know what you mean about FDA-approval. Bear in mind though it has been sold from company to company a fair few times and they are still doing trials and stuff, someone clearly wants it for something. It may not be for hair loss but.. if they don't want to sell it for some reason, then why so many trials on animals and even humans?

 

[Bryan]

And I do know what you mean about FDA-approval. Bear in mind though it has been sold from company to company a fair few times...

No, I believe only once.

...and they are still doing trials and stuff, someone clearly wants it for something. It may not be for hair loss but.. if they don't want to sell it for some reason, then why so many trials on animals and even humans?

There have been a few trials on animals in the past, but I suspect those are pretty much over; same for the very brief human trial at Proskelia. Look, there have been occasional trials for other such substances, too, and nothing ever came of them; a good example would be 11a-hydroxyprogesterone. Just because there's a lot of fame and notoriety for RU58841 on hairlosss sites like this one, that doesn't mean that a company is going to spend $500,000,000 for FDA approval (not to mention sales and marketing and production costs) just because a few individuals on HairLossTalk.com and HLH are crazy nuts about the idea of using it!

 

[Hoppi]

Isn't it like a more potent equivalent to spironolactone? What's so crazy about that? Also it probably doesn't smell as bad as spironolactone apparently can do lol

 

[Bryan]

Isn't it like a more potent equivalent to spironolactone?

Yes.

What's so crazy about that?

Nothing at all. What's crazy is for people to keep thinking that RU58841 is ever going to be FDA-approved and marketed by a big drug company!

 

[Hoppi]

haha yeah maybe

Shame though, it would be much more convenient than trying to get it from FE or Kouting or something!

 

[hairandthere]

There are no ongoing trials. Proskelia was sold to Galapagos, a research company who works with big pharma including Merck. I know they licensed it out in the past to be sold to consumers but the company stopped making it and it was more expensive than it is currently to order from the 2 sources and make your own mix. As for safety, there was one 17 month trial on macaques and I believe the Proskelia trials went to Phase II (maybe IIb?). I think those are the only ones you can really refer to if you can even call them long-term. The current documentation we do have access to seems to suggest that there is a low probability of safety issues imo.

 

[captain_que]

if you were to use this... would you have to bring a mini-lab with you anywhere you went to cook it up every day?

 

[Hoppi]

Nah I don't believe so. People just keep the RU in the freezer, and mix it nightly with ethanol or ethanol and PG, and then shove it on their heads! lol

El Duterino seems very happy with just ethanol and RU, and his hair looks great to me

 

[captain_que]

so if you´re constantly on the move and nowhere near your own freezer, using RU is pretty much not an option....

 

[Hoppi]

I guess not ._.

For me, RU and fluridil are two key parts of my "last resort" regimen! rofl

 

[captain_que]

so you´re making a crucial choice.. being chained to your freezer forever and ever,

 

[Hoppi]

so you´re making a crucial choice.. being chained to your freezer forever and ever,

haha yeah, I'll be off travelling the world, wheeling along a portable freezer lol - with a MASSIVE battery!

To be honest though RU and things are my very last resort. My first shot is based around thyroid, insulin, cortisol, sex hormone balance/control and sebum reduction, things like that.

My second is a very large and ambitious internal regimen!

and the third is RU, fluridil, maybe crinagen, equol, finasteride etc..

Time will tell eh?

 

[Artas]

It requires too much preperation and I have no idea where to buy it, I'd rather stick with the FDA approved treatments, until we know more about RU.