What Exactly Do We Know About The Dutasteride Hairline Killing Phenomenon

[Jesse Navarro]

I wouldn't say it destroyed my hair, that's a bit dramatic lol. It definitely accelerated my recession and ate up my temples pretty quick though. I had great pics showing the difference in only 3 months but unfortunately those are long lost along with my phone. I would recommend just to jump straight in, and always be consistent with your pills.. Don't skip days and try take it about the same time every night, before bed is the best as this is apparently when DHT is at its peak. I definitely wouldn't stop if you see initial worsening as this happens to many people on finasteride, just take a glance on these forums lol. Its important you give the treatment at least one year before you make any conclusions. For some they regrow instantly, for others they continue to lose for a while then gradually it slows down and sometimes stops. One thing is for sure, you'll end up bald without it eventually so why not use it?

Yeah. In some people their testosterone can raise by more than 100%!
From my experience using finasteride I actually lost less hair but my hair began thinning, thick strands would turn literally transparent because they got so thin. DHT does take a while to kill hair yes but some people are probably more sensitive to testosterone than DHT. I know its not as simple as that because with little testosterone and DHT in my body I'm still losing hair fast, not slower like I hoped. How is your situation now Jesse, any good news?

Not good at all. I'm trying now a lower dosage of spironolactone and estradiol, applying oestrogel on my scalp. Lets see what happens

 

[AnxiousAndy]

Not sure what's the answer you are looking for? You've already decided that dutasteride ruins your hairline and the people who have taken it long-term are just an anomaly. My only advice is that if hairloss medication works the first go-round do not quit, Finasteride was great for me, then after a two year lay-of and starting again it has been sh*t. Good luck, my friend.

I'm looking for other explanations other than testosterone sensitivity which would cause you to lose your hair faster despite dutasteride. I never said all the people who maintain on dutasteride are anomalies, I specifically said Ashton Kutcher because he's been on it for over a decade and after stopping for about half a year he still has most of his hair. In theory he should be pretty bald right about now. Thanks for good luck though, hopefully I will figure something out.

 

[AnxiousAndy]

Not good at all. I'm trying now a lower dosage of spironolactone and estradiol, applying oestrogel on my scalp. Lets see what happens

In some people spironolactone actually increases testosterone, I think that happened to me because I shed really bad while on it myself, maybe its the same for you? I would use something that actually prevents production rather than preventing it from binding to androgen receptors.

 

[Jesse Navarro]

In some people spironolactone actually increases testosterone, I think that happened to me because I shed really bad while on it myself, maybe its the same for you? I would use something that actually prevents production rather than preventing it from binding to androgen receptors.

But i'm not feeling any signs that indicate that testosterone increased, on the contrary.

 

[AnxiousAndy]

But i'm not feeling any signs that indicate that testosterone increased, on the contrary.

Neither did I if I remember correctly, the only noticeable effect was more shedding.. A lot more Have you had your hormone levels checked Jesse?

 

[bridgeburn]

Ill think of some possibilities, though they may all be totally wrong.

- your hairloss is not completely androgenic.
- your imagining it worse than it really is.
- prolactin (cypro increases)
- if reflex hyper andro is a thing, then maybe its possible cypro hurt with it being a weak partial agonist.
- minoxidil has caused to much syncronized anagen phase. Like a coffee or energy drink crash, or building tolerance.
(telogen phase is actually beneficial with moderation)
- maybe God just doesn't like you, lol

 

[AnxiousAndy]

Ill think of some possibilities, though they may all be totally wrong.

- your hairloss is not completely androgenic.
- your imagining it worse than it really is.
- prolactin (cypro increases)
- if reflex hyper andro is a thing, then maybe its possible cypro hurt with it being a weak partial agonist.
- minoxidil has caused to much syncronized anagen phase. Like a coffee or energy drink crash, or building tolerance.
(telogen phase is actually beneficial with moderation)
- maybe God just doesn't like you, lol

Good theories hahah But what do you mean by " Its possible cypro hurt with it being a weak partial angonist" ?
I'm not a religious person so if there is a God out there he probably doesn't like me lol.

 

[bridgeburn]

But what do you mean by " Its possible cypro hurt with it being a weak partial angonist" ?

cypro and spironolactone block the receptor and weakly activate them. They are basically a weak Testosterone. I read somewhere its like 20% of the strength of T.

cyproterone alone also has a dose response curve where it can only reduce T by 70 something percent andthen doesnt go down much further even with higher doses.

although that might not matter too much since the rest of T probably cant attach to receptor very often and also aromatizes.

If estradiol is combined with it (In trans level doses anyway) then T production is reduced around 95 percent

 

[Jesse Navarro]

I checked when i was on cypro, it was nonexistent. I changed to spirobecause i was not seeing much result and i wanted to have some testosterone, thats why im on 100mg only. Sometimes i regret embarking on this road of treatment, even finasteride, my testo was always high and i was losing slowly; it appears that with treatment things got worse. Well, thats my last try, low dosage with estrogel on the scalp, if things dont improve or get worse, i will drop everything.

 

[AnxiousAndy]

cypro and spironolactone block the receptor and weakly activate them. They are basically a weak Testosterone. I read somewhere its like 20% of the strength of T.

cyproterone alone also has a dose response curve where it can only reduce T by 70 something percent andthen doesnt go down much further even with higher doses.

although that might not matter too much since the rest of T probably cant attach to receptor very often and also aromatizes.

If estradiol is combined with it (In trans level doses anyway) then T production is reduced around 95 percent

Wow that's insane, but I couldn't bring myself to reach the doses of E you have.. I had a strange feeling it wouldn't work for me and then I would be bald with huge tits

 

[bridgeburn]

I'm not a religious person so if there is a God out there he probably doesn't like me lol.

neither am I, but sometimes I can't help but wonder if something is f*****g with me. cause things are just too riddiculous

 

[AnxiousAndy]

I checked when i was on cypro, it was nonexistent. I changed to spirobecause i was not seeing much result and i wanted to have some testosterone, thats why im on 100mg only. Sometimes i regret embarking on this road of treatment, even finasteride, my testo was always high and i was losing slowly; it appears that with treatment things got worse. Well, thats my last try, low dosage with estrogel on the scalp, if things dont improve or get worse, i will drop everything.

I think part of your problem Jesse is you keep changing up your regimen without giving your endocrine system a chance to adjust to your new regimen., let alone for your hormones to stabilize. I would stick to a mildly aggressive regimen consistently and see how that goes. In theory ( I hate that term ) you shouldn't lose any more hair, at least eventually anyway.

 

[AnxiousAndy]

neither am I, but sometimes I can't help but wonder if something is f*****g with me. cause things are just too riddiculous

There most likely is some form of higher power floating about in the cosmos. The universe's existence and size is mind boggling to say the least.

 

[bridgeburn]

maybe you and @Jesse Navarro could try something to overcome fibrosis. It's possible that since I used to derma roll and use lithium chloride, although didn'g seem to do much on its own. that it helped me respond better to treatments? or maybe not idk. maybe the gene expression has already been changed to benefit hair but the scalp istoo thick and fibrosed inside.

men have thicker scalp than women, and bald men have thicker scalp than non bald men. (4x the amount of elastin fibers as nonbald)

mtf hrt thins the skin and I wouldn't be surprised if thats part of the benefit but also I wouldn't be suprised if its not enough to totally revert back in some who had high level of fibrosis?

could try topical corticosteriods too. something which can cause skin atrophy over time however Ive seen a couple cases on here with regrowth while using it.

 

[bridgeburn]

There most likely is some form of higher power floating about in the cosmos. The universe's existence and size is mind boggling to say the least.

I imagined your cat avatar saying these words as I read this lol

 

[AnxiousAndy]

maybe you and @Jesse Navarro could try something to overcome fibrosis. It's possible that since I used to derma roll and use lithium chloride, although didn'g seem to do much on its own. that it helped me respond better to treatments? or maybe not idk. maybe the gene expression has already been changed to benefit hair but the scalp istoo thick and fibrosed inside.

men have thicker scalp than women, and bald men have thicker scalp than non bald men. (4x the amount of elastin fibers as nonbald)

mtf hrt thins the skin and I wouldn't be surprised if thats part of the benefit but also I wouldn't be suprised if its not enough to totally revert back in some who had high level of fibrosis?

could try topical corticosteriods too. something which can cause skin atrophy over time however Ive seen a couple cases on here with regrowth while using it.

How would I go about reversing this and how do I know if its happening to me, bridge?

 

[Jesse Navarro]

Thanks bridgeburn but i will not add anything, ill follow the advice of andy and try to stick with my low dosage regimen (100 of spironolactone and 0,70 of estradiol and dutasteride); maybe adjust some dosage but not adding anything for a time

 

[Alphalete]

About to take? Im sure you have said on other posts youv just started!!

Na waiting on it. I ordered it a few weeks back but it's been delayed

 

[Retinoid]

The problem with the anecdotal threads is that they are anecdotal and are not statistically relevant. We cannot really take that Duasteride makes hair worse seriously unless there is a study showing this.

Duasteride inhibits 5AR2 more completely than Finasteride and also inhibits 5AR1. 5AR1 has been shown to be in the scalp but is not relevant in the balding process--drugs blocking this alone are useless. So Duasteride is essentially nuking this other important enzyme for no reason if you are using this drug for hair loss. It may be blocking all 3 forms of 5AR causes the body to freak out a bit, while blocking most of 5AR2 and some of 5AR3 (like Finasteride), allows the body to rely on other mechanisms (such as 5AR1) to maintain sufficient byproducts of this enzyme.

 

[AnxiousAndy]

The problem with the anecdotal threads is that they are anecdotal and are not statistically relevant. We cannot really take that Duasteride makes hair worse seriously unless there is a study showing this.

Duasteride inhibits 5AR2 more completely than Finasteride and also inhibits 5AR1. 5AR1 has been shown to be in the scalp but is not relevant in the balding process--drugs blocking this alone are useless. So Duasteride is essentially nuking this other important enzyme for no reason if you are using this drug for hair loss. It may be blocking all 3 forms of 5AR causes the body to freak out a bit, while blocking most of 5AR2 and some of 5AR3 (like Finasteride), allows the body to rely on other mechanisms (such as 5AR1) to maintain sufficient byproducts of this enzyme.

What also bugs me is that many people don't provide pics either, which makes it harder to verify. Same with the studies, you would need to monitor people for a couple of years before treatment then after for a couple more years. Given the rarity of the condition and finding people to monitor pre treatment I don't think its a study which will ever happen unfortunately. I think it should be taken seriously, as there are many reports of this happeneing.. Most of these people are not liars. @Dench57 is a prime example of this.