What Norwood, Contemplating Taking Propecia

[Mushu]

To be honest, I never paid attention so don't know WHEN they receded.

1. Dad 60 years old, norwood 2, thick.
2. oldest brother 2 years older, last I know he's a norwood 1 or 1.5. But he always buzzes his head and as I haven't seen him much lately, don't know if he's thinning like me.
3. Fraternal twin of oldest brother is a 1.5 with one side thinning.

Here's where it gets interesting.

Fathers side
1. Older brother of dad, looks like he has diffuse thinning at 70+, but still has what appears to be norwood 2 hairline.
2. Eldest brother of dad, last I remember before he passed away, he may have been a norwood 3 thinning at 60 ish?

Mothers side
1. I only know of one uncle and from pictures, looks like a norwood 3 thinning, probably in his 60's to 70's now.

No clue when any of them started receding or their norwood level each decade. Would say I have the worse hair of the brothers.

I don't pay attention to my cousins as they would have their in laws genes mixed in, but the worse I think is a norwood 5-6 ish one. Rest are mix of receding to norwood 1 or 2 late into their 40's.

 

[abcdefg]

This. I'd say for your age your hairline and thickness is pretty normal, perhaps even better then average. Most guys have some kind of hair loss when they get to their 30s and 40s. My hair was really thick up until my early 30s and then it started to go a bit like yours. I did panic and went on Finasteride but I'm glad I did because I've had some good results. I guess it's a myth that young guys respond better to Finasteride, it's more to do with how aggressive your hair loss is.
One tip; with hair like yours I found it's better to keep it fairly long. Where your hair isn't balding it's very thick so you have good coverage. If you cut it short ther's no hiding place so to speak!

I know guys at 40 that have literally zero hair loss like perfect Norwood 1 so maybe you can say most, but its certainly not all. Id say this IMO from what I personally see MOST men I see that are 40 with Norwood 1 straight hair lines like 18 year olds have almost zero facial hair and I assume body hair. I think hormones do cause facial hair and male pattern baldness together.
Also I think studies have found that actually 30 year olds and older respond better to finasteride then younger 20 somethings. Maybe just because its less aggressive.

 

[abcdefg]

Costco is so cheap to get finasteride. I get mine there too. I remember those days paying about 100 dollars for one months supply of Propecia before it went generic. How ridiculous.

What are good places to get it besides costco since we dont have one? I been thinking about trying finasteride recently even though I still dont like the idea of taking a drug forever.
I wouldnt obsess over family history too much its so unknown what it means to your situation. If your going bald treat it. Its really that simple because you cant say much for sure beyond that, and I wouldnt be my money on male pattern baldness stopping by magic as you get older although I guess it can

 

[abcdefg]

Why are you on this website? If you're 41 and you've got a full head of hair, you shouldn't be taking prostate medicine, you should be getting it checked.

Nah dont listen to this. I see some recession, and there is nothing wrong with caring about your hair still. You might recover some of it. You can get prostate exams while on finasteride.

 

[Mushu]

Approximately 1 year 3 month update. I don't post much anymore but I still do read threads and once in a while answer some newbie questions, but mainly to read bout success stories and have thought about derma rolling given the many successful results I've read.


Here are current pictures and description.

1. Front --> basically I have the appearance of baby hairs now and if normal people spot it would probably think I'm thinning.
2. Left , bad side ---> Looks worse with lighting, but basically minaturized hair grows twice as long and the density grew back a bit, still not ideal.
3. Right, good side, I can actually spike this up and it won't look too bad now.
4. The red lines are basically where I regained baby hairs. My left and right upper temples were fairly bald around July 2017. Recovered a bit when I made the post(was using Regenpure DR).
5. Current cover up game(no toppik). Just wash and blow dry hair. I use a light leave in conditioner which I never did like hair product in my hair and it holds it up well enough. Usually looks best by second day. My hair is pretty much thicker overall. I kept eyebrows so you can see the hairline relative to eyebrows.


Summary of my thought process, hopefully can help people.

1. I did research for 6 months(3 months in I used Regenpure DR(with ketaconazole) before I decided to use Finasteride. I would say part of when my hair was at it's worse I had some Telogen Effluvium.

2. I had a bottle of Minoxidil but never used it(ordered before Finasteride). Decided not to use it after reading about shed and it's long term effectiveness. Coupled with the hassle, I decided not to use it and check if I"d be happy with my Finasteride results. Which I'm content.
3. Used Costco generic brand Finasteride. First six months was Camber Pharmaceuticals. After it was all ascend laboratories. Generics work!!! I did not notice a big shed.


Sides:
1. I can say with certainty I felt more tired right away when I first started taking Finasteride (Camber Pharmaceuticals).Back to normal, but also coincides with the 6 month mark brand change to Ascended. So either Ascended is not as potent or the sides went away around the same time.

2. Around 1 week, watery semen. Libido was already getting lower before taking, but yes bit lower libido, but can't blame it entirely on Finasteride. Still can use and no problems when seeing a hot girl and have thoughts. I would say now back to normal and just getting older and is more age related. Still a bit watery, but not as bad. 90% recovery I would say.

3. Brain Fog. Not much, can't say for sure, but around 6 month mark went away. Coincidental right?


Why I went the route I did, my thought process, and opinions.

1. Never used the other treatments because my research lead me to believe either they were dismal or was not clear cut it was the main reason it worked. Only Minoxidil and Finasteride(barring transgender treatments) returned consistent success stories. Especially Asians.

2. If I would have gotten worse I would definitely have used Minoxidil and maybe derma roll. That's the extent. I can't tell you what I would do if it got really bad, but I can say transgender treatments(my thought process now is I would never take it, but I can't say with certainty until I get to a bad enough state) would be last resort before hair transplant.

3. Would I recommend to take Finasteride for younger people at the slightest sign of thinning. No, unless they have a history of family members with hairloss. I kept a mature hairline for most my life.


Supplements I take

1. Iron,(don't get enough from diet)
2. Vitamin D (don't get enough from diet)
3. Fish oil --> I don't eat alot of fat, but I do eat alot of fish and salmon.
4. Took zinc for a bit, but only occasionally take this now. Reason for taking is as a aromatase inhibitor. Reason decided not to take it as much now is I feel perhaps it won't make a big difference the %.

Hair care:
1. I used to not wash my hair everyday, but it's not good for oily type scalp. I'd get dandruff often. After using Regenpure DR and washing my hair with sulfate free shampoo and conditoner, I rarely(once or twice) get inflammation on hairline or grow pimples there. Can say Finasteride might have made me less oily.

 

[Capone]

Very similar position, only my loss hit like a truck at 39/40.

What was your experience in terms of shedding when starting finasteride? Any sides?

Topical finasteride? Where did you purchase that?

 

[reyl]

@Mushu Wow incredible recovery compared to your OP post.Thanks for coming back and posting your results. Seems like Asians really do almost always respond well to finasteride.

Besides feeling tired did you get any other side effects? Was the watery semen temporary?

edit: Why do you not recommend finasteride to younger people?

 

[Mushu]

@Mushu Wow incredible recovery compared to your OP post.Thanks for coming back and posting your results. Seems like Asians really do almost always respond well to finasteride.

Besides feeling tired did you get any other side effects? Was the watery semen temporary?

edit: Why do you not recommend Finasteride to younger people?

No other side effects besides watery semen. Water Semen is recovered 90%. I would say still more watery then before I started.

Regarding younger people. My comment was a bit misleading. What I mean is 8/10 photos of young people posted on this site,they either have no hair loss or have mature hairline. Finasteride's sides are mostly tolerable. It basically changes your hormonal profile, who knows how anyone would react. It is worth a shot to keep your hair? Definitely. However younger people with no family history of balding could just be maturing hairline and they go extreme too soon. If there's clear signs then I think it's worth a shot.

 

[Thins]

Approximately 1 year 3 month update. I don't post much anymore but I still do read threads and once in a while answer some newbie questions, but mainly to read bout success stories and have thought about derma rolling given the many successful results I've read.


Here are current pictures and description.

1. Front --> basically I have the appearance of baby hairs now and if normal people spot it would probably think I'm thinning.
2. Left , bad side ---> Looks worse with lighting, but basically minaturized hair grows twice as long and the density grew back a bit, still not ideal.
3. Right, good side, I can actually spike this up and it won't look too bad now.
4. The red lines are basically where I regained baby hairs. My left and right upper temples were fairly bald around July 2017. Recovered a bit when I made the post(was using Regenpure DR).
5. Current cover up game(no toppik). Just wash and blow dry hair. I use a light leave in conditioner which I never did like hair product in my hair and it holds it up well enough. Usually looks best by second day. My hair is pretty much thicker overall. I kept eyebrows so you can see the hairline relative to eyebrows.


Summary of my thought process, hopefully can help people.

1. I did research for 6 months(3 months in I used Regenpure DR(with ketaconazole) before I decided to use Finasteride. I would say part of when my hair was at it's worse I had some Telogen Effluvium.

2. I had a bottle of Minoxidil but never used it(ordered before Finasteride). Decided not to use it after reading about shed and it's long term effectiveness. Coupled with the hassle, I decided not to use it and check if I"d be happy with my Finasteride results. Which I'm content.
3. Used Costco generic brand Finasteride. First six months was Camber Pharmaceuticals. After it was all ascend laboratories. Generics work!!! I did not notice a big shed.


Sides:
1. I can say with certainty I felt more tired right away when I first started taking Finasteride (Camber Pharmaceuticals).Back to normal, but also coincides with the 6 month mark brand change to Ascended. So either Ascended is not as potent or the sides went away around the same time.

2. Around 1 week, watery semen. Libido was already getting lower before taking, but yes bit lower libido, but can't blame it entirely on Finasteride. Still can use and no problems when seeing a hot girl and have thoughts. I would say now back to normal and just getting older and is more age related. Still a bit watery, but not as bad. 90% recovery I would say.

3. Brain Fog. Not much, can't say for sure, but around 6 month mark went away. Coincidental right?


Why I went the route I did, my thought process, and opinions.

1. Never used the other treatments because my research lead me to believe either they were dismal or was not clear cut it was the main reason it worked. Only Minoxidil and Finasteride(barring transgender treatments) returned consistent success stories. Especially Asians.

2. If I would have gotten worse I would definitely have used Minoxidil and maybe derma roll. That's the extent. I can't tell you what I would do if it got really bad, but I can say transgender treatments(my thought process now is I would never take it, but I can't say with certainty until I get to a bad enough state) would be last resort before hair transplant.

3. Would I recommend to take Finasteride for younger people at the slightest sign of thinning. No, unless they have a history of family members with hairloss. I kept a mature hairline for most my life.


Supplements I take

1. Iron,(don't get enough from diet)
2. Vitamin D (don't get enough from diet)
3. Fish oil --> I don't eat alot of fat, but I do eat alot of fish and salmon.
4. Took zinc for a bit, but only occasionally take this now. Reason for taking is as a aromatase inhibitor. Reason decided not to take it as much now is I feel perhaps it won't make a big difference the %.

Hair care:
1. I used to not wash my hair everyday, but it's not good for oily type scalp. I'd get dandruff often. After using Regenpure DR and washing my hair with sulfate free shampoo and conditoner, I rarely(once or twice) get inflammation on hairline or grow pimples there. Can say Finasteride might have made me less oily.

hey man it looks like your hair looks a lot better since starting finasteride! How long did you take it to notice an improvement in your hair? I've been on 0.5mg for almost 6 months and have not noticed any difference in my hair except for maybe a bit more recession/thinning :/

 

[Mushu]

hey man it looks like your hair looks a lot better since starting finasteride! How long did you take it to notice an improvement in your hair? I've been on 0.5mg for almost 6 months and have not noticed any difference in my hair except for maybe a bit more recession/thinning :/

Hey. I noticed a difference 2-3 months in. Basically my miniaturized hair on my hairline was growing longer and thicker. It's was easy to tell as I had kept a eye on my hairline 6 months prior. I remember your thread and you may want to try derma rolling + Minoxidil. Although your hairloss doesn't seem aggressive, it does seem to be slowly thinning on your forelock. Seems lots of Asians recede in a 2A pattern.

 

[Mushu]

Howdy Folks,

Thought I would provide an update. I rarely come onto this site, but have recently to see how things are going and for an update just to share my experience with hairloss. I mostly look for any new treatments and enjoy success stories. There's something satisfying to see someone regain their hair. Hopefully it'll help provide info from my perspective and thoughts to help folks as I know when I first started researching I had more questions than answers, even 3 months into my research.

1. Update - hair has mostly maintained but my temples have actually improved, it's hard to tell in the good/bad side pictures but I can definitely tell it filled in further where the miniaturized hair has actually recovered more, providing an illusion of a more square hairline. In actuality it's my old hairline miniaturized.

The pictures are labeled accordingly. Lighting plays a big part in how it looks in photos, so I would say it can look worse than it really is.

1. Front ---> pretty much stayed the same, my forelock has not thickened. I have age related thinning. Not too concerned.
2. Bad side --> has actually improved, but I've never been able to capture the smaller miniaturized hairs clearly with the iphone camera. I can tell the miniaturized hairs have recovered further temple area.
3. Good side --> same as bad side, has actually improved and recovered further temple area
4. Cover up game --> just blow dry after a shower

My updated thoughts on subjects many of varying opinions on over the years. I would like to start with saying, there are two main types of hairloss, but both entertwined and are both Androgenetic in nature, but there may be other variables. Age related thinning and having the male pattern baldness gene. Without going too much into detail as I don't want this thread to be the discussion of the scientific side here is my tldr thoughts on them. Please take the below info with a preface of in my opinion for all of them. The reason I'd like to to bring attention to this is to highlight the importance of identifying a more accurate assessment of your hairloss aggressiveness, you really have to compare your starting point before any hairloss.


1. Age related thinning is something you can't avoid and is over time. Everyone, including Ronald Regan has age related thinning, even though you can't tell from the naked eye until later in life. It's still can be Androgenetic, where some thin faster than other but in my opinion is part of aging. Until there exists the cure of aging

I'll provide an example of Brad Pitt. You can clearly see his hair is thinner overall but still great.

Your hair will age gracefully depending on:

1. Your starting point. Some are born with a big forehead, deeper temples,and less prominent temple points. While two people can recede the exact same rate, the one with the worse starting point, will in the eyes of non norwood spotters will think the one with the bigger forehead is balding because a slight recession will make their forehead bigger.

2. Your starting hair diameter thickness. Asians have thicker hair diameter overall and we go through the same miniaturization, but because we have a better starting point, it's less noticeable and overall we have less aggressive hairloss.

Brad Pitt young:

Older Brad Pitt

2. Androgenic Alopecia(Aka Male Pattern Baldness)

There's been many studies that linked this to the balding gene and you have a much higher chance of having premature hairloss. This is what I'd settle on calling this, as it's basically a condition, like premature aging. Everyones body is different so varying aggressiveness is dependent on the person. So your hairloss will be a combination of your balding gene expression and age related thinning and a combo of those two, depending on the aggressiveness, along with your starting point, will determine your hairloss at that point in your life.

Why does finasteride work for some and not others? I do believe everyone's body is different with different thresholds and balances, before our body reacts. We always refer to the normal ranges of DHT, but a better comparison in my opinion would be if someone took snapshots of their hormonal profile over time and try to get it back to the pre-hairloss ranges. There's not much study done on this.

My current opinions and protocols:

1. The mature hairline myth
This does exist in my opinion. You will lose the baby hairs in the front at some point in your young adult years. Your must know your starting point to know if and how aggressive your hairloss is.

2. I would still recommend to take Finasteride first before Minoxidil when I your first notice miniaturization to maintain.

3. I don't use Minoxidil because of the hassle and commitment. I'm sure I would get more results, but as long as I still look normal and not balding to the public, I'm content.

4. I'm not a fan of Nizoral or head and shoulders. There are shampoos with ketoconazole or for dandruff that is not as harsh. I've used them and they dry out my hair and cause inflammation for me. I do believe keeping your scalp free of inflammation will help prevent telogen effluvium and I definitely had bouts throughout my life as there are times when my hair looked bad but would recover. I just use products that do not have sodium lauryl sulfate and sodium laureth sulfate and my scalp has responded well. Nothing else special needed, like oils,etc. Those are just to prevent cuticle breakage,which can help prevent frizzy hair.

5. Besides Finasteride daily(although I did somehow miss about 30 days from my previous prescription), I take vitamin D,Iron,Fish oil, as needed depending on my diet. I do lift weights and it provides stress relief for me, which helps in reducing stress.

5. I do believe stress and your general well being has a bearing on accelerated hairloss , meaning it can be a trigger but is not the main cause. I firmly believe cortisol can be a trigger to many underlying conditions. Meaning it can trigger a change in your body to react and possibly trigger your male pattern baldness. There's not much you can do here but try your best to just be positive in your life. I know it's hard with hairloss.

Again, this is all personal opinion from research and my current experiences.

 

[Haaribol]

Awesome results!! Thanks for coming back! You prove that it is possible (and worthwhile) to make a solid comeback with your hair whilst being in your 40's.

Howdy Folks,

Thought I would provide an update. I rarely come onto this site, but have recently to see how things are going and for an update just to share my experience with hairloss. I mostly look for any new treatments and enjoy success stories. There's something satisfying to see someone regain their hair. Hopefully it'll help provide info from my perspective and thoughts to help folks as I know when I first started researching I had more questions than answers, even 3 months into my research.

1. Update - hair has mostly maintained but my temples have actually improved, it's hard to tell in the good/bad side pictures but I can definitely tell it filled in further where the miniaturized hair has actually recovered more, providing an illusion of a more square hairline. In actuality it's my old hairline miniaturized.

The pictures are labeled accordingly. Lighting plays a big part in how it looks in photos, so I would say it can look worse than it really is.

1. Front ---> pretty much stayed the same, my forelock has not thickened. I have age related thinning. Not too concerned.
2. Bad side --> has actually improved, but I've never been able to capture the smaller miniaturized hairs clearly with the iphone camera. I can tell the miniaturized hairs have recovered further temple area.
3. Good side --> same as bad side, has actually improved and recovered further temple area
4. Cover up game --> just blow dry after a shower

My updated thoughts on subjects many of varying opinions on over the years. I would like to start with saying, there are two main types of hairloss, but both entertwined and are both Androgenetic in nature, but there may be other variables. Age related thinning and having the male pattern baldness gene. Without going too much into detail as I don't want this thread to be the discussion of the scientific side here is my tldr thoughts on them. Please take the below info with a preface of in my opinion for all of them. The reason I'd like to to bring attention to this is to highlight the importance of identifying a more accurate assessment of your hairloss aggressiveness, you really have to compare your starting point before any hairloss.


1. Age related thinning is something you can't avoid and is over time. Everyone, including Ronald Regan has age related thinning, even though you can't tell from the naked eye until later in life. It's still can be Androgenetic, where some thin faster than other but in my opinion is part of aging. Until there exists the cure of aging

I'll provide an example of Brad Pitt. You can clearly see his hair is thinner overall but still great.

Your hair will age gracefully depending on:

1. Your starting point. Some are born with a big forehead, deeper temples,and less prominent temple points. While two people can recede the exact same rate, the one with the worse starting point, will in the eyes of non norwood spotters will think the one with the bigger forehead is balding because a slight recession will make their forehead bigger.

2. Your starting hair diameter thickness. Asians have thicker hair diameter overall and we go through the same miniaturization, but because we have a better starting point, it's less noticeable and overall we have less aggressive hairloss.

Brad Pitt young:
View attachment 163708

Older Brad Pitt
View attachment 163709

2. Androgenic Alopecia(Aka Male Pattern Baldness)

There's been many studies that linked this to the balding gene and you have a much higher chance of having premature hairloss. This is what I'd settle on calling this, as it's basically a condition, like premature aging. Everyones body is different so varying aggressiveness is dependent on the person. So your hairloss will be a combination of your balding gene expression and age related thinning and a combo of those two, depending on the aggressiveness, along with your starting point, will determine your hairloss at that point in your life.

Why does finasteride work for some and not others? I do believe everyone's body is different with different thresholds and balances, before our body reacts. We always refer to the normal ranges of DHT, but a better comparison in my opinion would be if someone took snapshots of their hormonal profile over time and try to get it back to the pre-hairloss ranges. There's not much study done on this.

My current opinions and protocols:

1. The mature hairline myth
This does exist in my opinion. You will lose the baby hairs in the front at some point in your young adult years. Your must know your starting point to know if and how aggressive your hairloss is.

2. I would still recommend to take Finasteride first before Minoxidil when I your first notice miniaturization to maintain.

3. I don't use Minoxidil because of the hassle and commitment. I'm sure I would get more results, but as long as I still look normal and not balding to the public, I'm content.

4. I'm not a fan of Nizoral or head and shoulders. There are shampoos with ketoconazole or for dandruff that is not as harsh. I've used them and they dry out my hair and cause inflammation for me. I do believe keeping your scalp free of inflammation will help prevent telogen effluvium and I definitely had bouts throughout my life as there are times when my hair looked bad but would recover. I just use products that do not have sodium lauryl sulfate and sodium laureth sulfate and my scalp has responded well. Nothing else special needed, like oils,etc. Those are just to prevent cuticle breakage,which can help prevent frizzy hair.

5. Besides Finasteride daily(although I did somehow miss about 30 days from my previous prescription), I take vitamin D,Iron,Fish oil, as needed depending on my diet. I do lift weights and it provides stress relief for me, which helps in reducing stress.

5. I do believe stress and your general well being has a bearing on accelerated hairloss , meaning it can be a trigger but is not the main cause. I firmly believe cortisol can be a trigger to many underlying conditions. Meaning it can trigger a change in your body to react and possibly trigger your male pattern baldness. There's not much you can do here but try your best to just be positive in your life. I know it's hard with hairloss.

Again, this is all personal opinion from research and my current experiences.

 

[Diffused_confidence]

I do lift weights and it provides stress relief for me, which helps in reducing stress.

Uh...

 

[Mushu]

Awesome results!! Thanks for coming back! You prove that it is possible (and worthwhile) to make a solid comeback with your hair whilst being in your 40's.

Indeed. Besides my age, I think it's important to highlight that this is just with Finasteride, perhaps Vitamin D, and taking care of yourself reducing telogen effluvium. I probably am a better responder than most. I forgot to mention, no more watery semen. I guess the body adjusts. For non aggressive hairloss, perhaps try Finasteride first by itself, and try to stick it out for a year, if no major sides. You may be content with the results without Minoxidil.