Who Here Take Propecia and have since had a fertility Test?

[medmax84]

I know plenty of people firsthand who have conceived successfully after being on Propecia.

End of story.

No, not end of story. What's with you protecting finasteride so much? Do you work for them? This is quite personal, but I have been trying to have a child with my wife for a few months now and have had the fertility doctor tell me to stop finasteride right away. I tested my sperm count while on it, and it was extremely low, with really bad motility. I tested again while off of it for 3 months, and both the count and motility increased and improved drastically. I also tested my sperm around 5 years ago in college because I was actually considering donating sperm for money, and my count was normal at the time, as was my motility...this was of course before I started taking finasteride. Why is it that this site condones success stories (which is fine), but doesn't allow people to tell potential horror stories? This is a hairloss site. We're all in this fight together, and should be aware of all of the pitfalls. There's a reason that not every single guy on the planet that's losing his hair doesn't take finasteride. It's a powerful drug with VERY serious side effects. I was on finasteride for 2 years, and it worked wonders for my hair, but it f*cked up my libido. I really don't give a sh*t if this scares off someone that might be considering taking it, because it's information worth knowing.

Thanks for your input!

DHT and testosterone are very imporant for spermatogenesis. I plan on going off of finasteride for a few months when my future wife and I plan on conceiving. That's a long way off and a lot of hair loss later haha.

 

[medmax84]

GREAT STUDY! Small sample size, unfortunately. Prob tough to get more fellas to jack it into a cup :$

The effect of 5alpha-reductase inhibition with dutasteride and finasteride on semen parameters and serum hormones in healthy men.
Amory JK, Wang C, Swerdloff RS, Anawalt BD, Matsumoto AM, Bremner WJ, Walker SE, Haberer LJ, Clark RV.

Department of Medicine, Veterans Affairs-Puget Sound Health Care System, University of Washington, Seattle, WA 98195, USA.

CONTEXT: Dutasteride and finasteride are 5alpha-reductase inhibitors (5ARIs) that dramatically reduce serum levels of dihydrotestosterone (DHT). OBJECTIVE: Because androgens are essential for fertility, we sought to determine the impact of 5ARI administration on serum testosterone (T), DHT, and spermatogenesis. DESIGN, SETTING, SUBJECTS, AND INTERVENTION: We conducted a randomized, double-blinded, placebo-controlled trial in 99 healthy men randomly assigned to receive dutasteride (D; 0.5 mg) (n = 33), finasteride (F; 5 mg) (n = 34), or placebo (n = 32) once daily for 1 yr. MAIN OUTCOME MEASURES: Blood and semen samples were collected at baseline and 26 and 52 wk of treatment and 24 wk after treatment and were assessed for T, DHT, and semen parameters. RESULTS: D and F significantly (P < 0.001) suppressed serum DHT, compared with placebo (D, 94%; F, 73%) and transiently increased serum T. In both treatment groups, total sperm count, compared with baseline, was significantly decreased at 26 wk (D, -28.6%; F, -34.3%) but not at 52 wk (D, -24.9%; F, -16.2%) or the 24-wk follow-up (D, -23.3%; F, -6.2%). At 52 wk, semen volume was decreased (D, -29.7%; F, -14.5%, significantly for D) as was sperm concentration (D, -3.2%; [corrected] F, -7.4%, neither significant). There was a significant reduction of -6 to 12% in sperm motility during treatment with both D and F and at follow-up. Neither treatment had any effect on sperm morphology. CONCLUSIONS: This study demonstrates that the decrease in DHT induced by 5ARIs is associated with mild decreases in semen parameters that appear reversible after discontinuation.

Key points that I'm going to pull out discretely:

• 
  
  In both treatment groups, total sperm count, compared with baseline, was significantly decreased at 26 wk (D, -28.6%; F, -34.3%) but not at 52 wk (D, -24.9%; F, -16.2%) or the 24-wk follow-up (D, -23.3%; F, -6.2%).
  
  At 52 wk, semen volume was decreased (D, -29.7%; F, -14.5%, significantly for D) as was sperm concentration (D, -3.2%; [corrected] F, -7.4%, neither significant).
  
  There was a significant reduction of -6 to 12% in sperm motility during treatment with both D and F and at follow-up.
  
  Neither treatment had any effect on sperm morphology.

The total sperm count shows a definitely regression both over time on treatment (which is promising for long-term users) and for those who discontinue use. No effects were noted on sperm morphology, which is good, and I'd be willing to bet that a significant portion of the reduction of sperm motility had to do with the decreased semen output in general (prostatic fluid is very important to sperm motility... the fact that d/cing finasteride didn't immediately fix this problem just further adds to this hypothesis, because it takes months to years for the prostate to begin growing again upon discontinuation)

This study is pretty damning evidence that finasteride will effect your sperm counts and semen volume at least transiently, although discontinuation seemed to improve things a bit. However, it is important to note that this study does nothing to address actual real-world fertility with finasteride treatment. While these values may decrease, most if not all of these patients would probably have been able to conceive at the 1-yr mark with only mild decreases.

 

[Petchsky]

So, this thread has not really proved anything, until the OP comes back after 3 months off the drug and says he's fine, but if still a problem then it's nothing to do with finasteride.

 

[medmax84]

That's not necessarily true. Just because ON AVERAGE people taking the medication had a progression that would suggest an eventual return to normal, it doesn't mean that every person on propecia will experience that. There is a great deal of endocrine variation between individuals.

That said, I would EXPECT that in 3-6 months off of Propecia, the individual will be back to "normal" fertility if he was originally "normal".

 

[kienast]

Here is the scientific study I was looking for . It 's exactly what happens to me , lack of mobility of the little spermatozoos ...........


http://news.hairlosshelp.com/hair-loss- ... ays-study/


So again I am not saying the side effects are the same for everyone but this is soemething that everyone need to be aware of .

ciao
Davo

 

[Eureka]

I'll be glad when this barbaric drug is not the best chance male pattern baldness sufferers have of slowing or stopping progression.

But until then unk:

 

[Mew]

In addition to the materials posted here:

viewtopic.php?p=463430#p463430

Some more food for thought, from http://www.scielo.br/pdf/acb/v23n3/12.pdf

 

[kienast]

Hello .
Thanks for this . Again this scientific studies prove that finasteride effect can be devasteting on young fertilite patient spermatogenis or at least for people TRYING TO CONCEIVE (like me) .

Older people will not notice anything .....

So until further studies are made, especially on young fertile patient (19-45 years old) I am going to try reduce the dose and take only half of 1 Mg every day which correspond to 0.5 Mg/day and see how it goes .

I also have an appointement in 5 weeks with an "urologist" (equivalent of a gynaecologist but for men ) here in france .
I will explain the situation , give him all the test results I have so far and I will take things from there .

I will of course post on this thread the result and the outcome of the discussion.

Thanks
D.

 

[Mew]

I am going to try reduce the dose and take only half of 1 Mg every day which correspond to 0.5 Mg/day and see how it goes

You do not need to take Finasteride even every day. Try 0.25mg, or 0.125mg. See graphs: viewtopic.php?p=470097#p470097

I also have an appointement in 5 weeks with an "urologist" (equivalent of a gynaecologist but for men ) here in france .
I will explain the situation , give him all the test results I have so far and I will take things from there .

I will of course post on this thread the result and the outcome of the discussion.

Keep us posted on your appointment. In my opinion all the evidence, taken together, is irrefutable -- Finasteride can definitely have a negative effect on spermatogenesis in some men.

 

[medmax84]

I am going to try reduce the dose and take only half of 1 Mg every day which correspond to 0.5 Mg/day and see how it goes

You do not need to take Finasteride even every day. Try 0.25mg, or 0.125mg. See graphs: viewtopic.php?p=470097#p470097

[quote:31vvkygl]I also have an appointement in 5 weeks with an "urologist" (equivalent of a gynaecologist but for men ) here in france .
I will explain the situation , give him all the test results I have so far and I will take things from there .

I will of course post on this thread the result and the outcome of the discussion.

Keep us posted on your appointment. In my opinion all the evidence, taken together, is irrefutable -- Finasteride can definitely have a negative effect on spermatogenesis in some men.[/quote:31vvkygl]

That pertains to serum levels of DHT. I sometimes wonder whether suppressing serum DHT is the same as keeping it suppressed in the tissues, which is its site of origin after its conversion through the 5AR enzyme. There is no evidence pertaining to how much DHT is actually required to miniaturize and damage hair follicles.

In other words, yeah 0.25 mg every other day may appear to almost suppress as much DHT as 1 mg daily, but I question whether that dose is effective in keeping DHT suppressed in the hair follicles.

 

[Petchsky]

I guess that in theory since the DHT in the follicle is responsible for miniaturisation, topical anti androgens should be the best course of action against male pattern baldness... Thoughts?

 

[kienast]

All .

I am coming back right now from my appointment with the "urologist" (equivalent of a gynaecologist but for men ) here in france . I have explained him the situation , give him all the test results (spermograms I have so far) .

May be this is not going to be a good news for all the young people taking finasteride who are trying to conceive on this forum but the Professor literaly almot jump on his chair when I told my wife and I were trying to conceived since 13 month withtout results AND I was taking FINASTERIDE 1MG per day .

The first thing he told me was "well first thing first you have to stop all the TOXIC ! , in your case Finasteride" .
Yes you heard the man , he qualified the drug as "TOXIC" and also told me that inside the "profession" everything that touch or block your hormones like Finasteride or dutasteride is a well know cause for fertility issue .
He also told me that Merck does not give a f.ck at all as the only testing they have made on humans were ONLY 48 WEEKS LONG , not much and the effects on fertility are beeing seen after 18 or 24 months .

So Here I am , I have to stop Finasteride immediately and do some new tests in 3 months from now .
He was 99.9% sure that the spermogram I will do at this time will be normal .

So Now everyone can make his own opinion , I might be more "sensible" than other people to this drug but my case in three months from now will definitively proove that Finasteride and dutasteride mess up people fertility , and also that MERCKS are an useless bunch of liers that deserved to be sued .

Ciao Evryone
K.

 

[kienast]

No comment everyone ?

Rgds,
D.

 

[Mew]

No comment everyone ?

Not surprising considering the previously published materials in this thread. Hope everything goes back to normal for you.

 

[Libido]

No comment everyone ?

Rgds,
D.

Your last post felt a bit... Redundant, if thats the right word.
Felt like you where suddenly throwing facts and numbers based on... uhm... hersay.. wich is probably not the right word but you get the point?

He was 99.9% sure that the spermogram I will do at this time will be normal.

How is he 99.9% sure about that again? :shock:

Not trying to be too negative here, I do appreciate your overall effort. Just really cant make anything at all out of that post.

 

[kienast]

Ok . This will be my last post of this forum . I am trying to be constructive here ..........

If you dont want to believe a Professor who has been specialised for the last 15 years in male fertility issues and If you dont want to believe that finasteride in their profession is a well know product to mess up people hormoned and fertility, there is nothing I can say or do that will change your mind .

Just make your own opinion , personally I am stoping that s.it.

Ciao
K

 

[Eureka]

Ok . This will be my last post of this forum . I am trying to be constructive here ..........

If you dont want to believe a Professor who has been specialised for the last 15 years in male fertility issues and If you dont want to believe that finasteride in their profession is a well know product to mess up people hormoned and fertility, there is nothing I can say or do that will change your mind .

Just make your own opinion , personally I am stoping that s.it.

Ciao
K

I dunno.. It's just obvious isn't it? The stuff is terrible for you, we all know that.

The fertility thing doesn't really bother me, I wouldn't want to intentionally bring a child into this world anyway.

 

[Libido]

Just make your own opinion

Thats what Im trying to do, thats why I read threads like this.
Just dont understand if I got your post.

You mean that one person said something and that was that? If I didnt intepret it wrong.
Thats not the first expert to say that finasteride is "toxic". There is also a lot of experts saying the opposite. Wich is why I thought it was wierd that one persons voice was suddenly heard above everyone elses.

Sorry if I offended you or something.

 

[kienast]

All .

Today is my third week without finasteride . Here are the facts :

- My "morning glory" is back
- My penis is not longer feeling "weak"
- Intercourses are longer than before
- Erections are far more stronger than they were before
- My semen is not "watery" anymore

Mid march I have another semen analysis . If this test shows better spem motility , normal forms etc ..... Then we will have the irrefutable proof that Finasteride CAN POSSIBLY affect mens fertility .

For your information I also have asked another Professor 's opinion as I did not want to live with only one .
The professor I saw last week ALSO told me to immediately stop Finasteride If I was trying to conceive with my wife .

HE HAD MULTIPLE CASE OF YOUNG MENS SHOWING "LOW" SPERM MOTILITY WHILE ON FINASTERIDE ALREADY .
Everything went back to normal after treatment discontinuation and they were able to conceive normally .

Now you believe it or not .........

Speak to you in 2 month .

K.

 

[Petchsky]

Thanx for the update.